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A plea for some Wikis instead of Stickies.

oldog

Member
Who has the time to read through 76 pages of posts to find the answer to a problem that the post was about ?
Not even geezers.
I suggest that people edit their posts by putting a summary
at the bottom of the first /original post based on replies.

Eg.

"Q: What is the best DIY soil mix ?

This is what my friend recommended/I saw some where:

30% beach sand
20% Perlite
10% Bullshite
10% garden top soil
20% compost
10% spagnum moss "


******************

Then after 20 replies the poster would edit the first post to something like:

5% clean, mountain river sand
10% perlite ( some say much more)
35% top soil from uncultivated land ( or Virgino Brand )
15% coco ( many objections to including )
20% compost
10% dolomite Lime
5% slow release fertiliser (a few recommenders)

Then if the searcher is interested they can read all the hundreds of posts.


Maybe the original posters of some existing 500+ post threads could do a summary- at the top- not at the end.
I'm sure it would be really appreciated by many who are trying to learn to grow.

PS> I am looking for a good soil mix formula :)
 
Great Idea. I would also rather like it if stickies actually had relevant info. Seems like alot of them lately are essentially wikis; many pages of opinions with no palpable fact, or at least no facts to work with each other. Sticky should equal truth. Who wants to read 100 pages of opinion? This is the mod`s responsibility of course but it just seems like ICMAG is being weighed down by speculations.

I am speaking with personal bias here but Organics suck prove me wrong(the organic think tank) and the hi yield defoliation thread have no business being stickies. I`m sure there are others but I dont spend enough time on here to identify them.
 

clp

Member
I totally agree with this statement barring one thing..

In this game there is no Truth only Opinion.

In each thread you will encounter countless different opinions and the point of reading these "wiki's" is to find which best fits to your situation. Most of the time they all work..
As with your Soil mix question; there are TONS of different recipes that will all produce amazing Sinsemilla.. You have to find the one that you like best, is the easiest/cost efficient, or is available to you readily.
Growing has way to many variables to make an exact sticky to address each situation.

A summary of the persons own findings in relation to their situation at the top of the post might be helpful but you will still have to find your own way to do things.

Find your own truth through research and learning
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Great Idea. I would also rather like it if stickies actually had relevant info. Seems like alot of them lately are essentially wikis; many pages of opinions with no palpable fact, or at least no facts to work with each other. Sticky should equal truth. Who wants to read 100 pages of opinion? This is the mod`s responsibility of course but it just seems like ICMAG is being weighed down by speculations.

I am speaking with personal bias here but Organics suck prove me wrong(the organic think tank) and the hi yield defoliation thread have no business being stickies. I`m sure there are others but I dont spend enough time on here to identify them.

You misinterpret this site. This is specifically a site for learning and experimentation. You can't have an undisputed fact on this site, since the subject matter isn't researched to the levels of other medical or food crops.

Until our crop is legal, and we can conduct large scale tests on different methods, we cannot state definitive facts as you request. Hell, about the only thing we agree on is that the plant comes from a seed. Best way to germ those seeds? Well, that's open to debate :D

This isn't a typical school like most are used to, it is not regurgitating 'facts' established by others and spoon fed to you. This is more of a Socratic method of learning, where the learning is in the discussion itself.

If you want facts and methods others have developed given to you as an instruction manual, you're in the wrong business.

Growing cannabis in the current legal environment still lends itself to more of an art than a science. An art shaped by hundreds of thousands of artists, adding their brushstroke and own unique perspective.

The point is, the experience and information you need to form an informed opinion and choose your own path is contained in the discussion itself.

ICMag is the cutting edge of Growing techniques and understanding. Just like in any other field, this involves trial and error, and peer review. That's the threads you see here, and those 100+ page threads are the most informative on this site.

The fact that you can't be bothered to read them is not a problem with the site, it's a problem with the user.

You don't like the organics thread I started and is now stickied. Odd, when you consider yourself an organic grower, since that thread is one of the best resources on this site for understanding the history, principle, and science behind organic gardening. You've got growers in there that have centuries of combined experience in growing organically, and it is a treasure trove of information for those that can be bothered to read it.

If you want an instruction manual to grow pot, go buy a book, there are some good ones out there. If you want to understand WHY some of those techniques are no longer used, and WHY some of the information is now known to be incorrect, then you come here.

Just because you're not interested in the 'advanced courses' doesn't mean they should be made unavailable to those that do.
 

oldog

Member
" The fact that you can't be bothered to read them is not a problem with the site, it's a problem with the user."

Why are you so angry ? Do you know how long it takes to wade through posts of " Yeah man I'm watching this one " and " Cool !"
Pages and pages of that. I'm just saying a summary somewhere
on some important categories would help people get up to speed faster. Respect.
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
I have to agree with the OP...it sure would be nice if these sticky threads were updated so the first post had ALL the "correct and relevant" information that is found amongst the hundred or more pages within the thread.
 
J

jim_browsky

I have to agree with the OP...it sure would be nice if these sticky threads were updated so the first post had ALL the "correct and relevant" information that is found amongst the hundred or more pages within the thread.

Seeing how only the OP of the stickied thread can edit it, wouldn't
it still be this person's opinion on what is "correct and relevant"?
Which may lead to people not reading the whole thread and
understanding what it is they are about to do. I say read the whole
thread and get all the viewpoints. You can scan posts and figure out
who is giving more accurate info and then just read their posts. For
example: If I want to search for only h3ad's posts in his coco sticky,
I do a thread search and this is what turns up.

I also understand oldog's point as well. It can get tiresome
reading through a bunch of threads. If you scan and use the
advanced search features, it may be a bit easier.
 

clp

Member
If you guys are only interested in what the OP has to say in the post then click on there name and click "Filter Posts". This will only show posts by the OP..

As a forum based on opinion this just isn't feasible
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
" The fact that you can't be bothered to read them is not a problem with the site, it's a problem with the user."

Why are you so angry ? Do you know how long it takes to wade through posts of " Yeah man I'm watching this one " and " Cool !"
Pages and pages of that. I'm just saying a summary somewhere
on some important categories would help people get up to speed faster. Respect.

It wasn't a matter of anger. It was a matter of perspective.

If you can not, or do not want to read the discussions, that's an issue with the user's perspective and desires, not an inherent flaw in the way the information is displayed on the site.

In other words, it's a user issue, not a forum issue, as I said. No malice intended, if it came out that way, I apologize.

Of course, I'm certainly aware of how long it takes to go through a thread of hundreds of pages. Much less time than it takes me to read a novel. Most I can finish in under 6 hours.

That seems like a long time, but Growing is my passion, and I want to understand the hows and whys of what I'm doing. I want to understand the art, not follow a flow chart. I have invested in this life in not only time, but blood, sweat, tears, and emotions too. So it is worth a few hours of my time if it gives me a deeper understanding, or a different perspective on my passion.

The difference is similar to the differences between a high school course, and a college course. In high school, you're given sets of facts to temporarily memorize until the information is needed for a test, and then promptly forgotten. In college, the focus is more on understanding subjects than rote memorization. You're expected to not only know whatever facts may be available, but to understand the deeper motivation and intricacies surrounding those facts.

For instance, a high school student studying the Civil War (in the US, for our international brothers) will be expected to know the basic facts of the war when tested. They'll need to know at least 4 key figures - Abraham Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, Ulysses S. Grant, and Robert E. Lee. They'll need to know dates, like 1861 - 1865.

But a Student of History at a college or university is going to be studying and learning about a lot more. Understanding that the war wasn't just about slavery, but the deeper economic issues. Why in some southern states is the war known as the War of Northern Aggression? In other words, they're going to understand the topic on many different and much deeper levels than someone looking for the 'right' answers.

So asking someone to give you a Cliff Note's version of a valuable, in-depth discussion because it's too much of a bother smacks of arrogance and entitlement. You want the knowledge and experience of combined centuries of growing reduced to a highlight reel.

It could even be construed as being pretty insulting to those that have dedicated our time and efforts to actually studying this art. Your time is more important than ours? Or do you think it's so simplistic that you just need the high points?

My dad once told me "Don't learn the tricks of the trade. Learn the trade, and come up with your own tricks."

You want the knowledge, go get it. It is there.

Hmmm, maybe I am a little irritated, after all...
 

PuReKnOwLeDgE

Licensed Grower
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I have the time and have read many 50+ page post here :)

Good soil mix, try "blazeoneup's" mix, I just finished my first crop with it and it worked great, I am half way through my second round with it problem free.

It is a "add water only mix", no nutrients needed. If you can keep your temps, humidity, air circulation, and watering frequency in check your golden.

1 bag bcuzz coco
1 bag ocean forest
1 bag happy frog
1/2 bag chunky perlite

1.25 cups bonemeal
1.25 cups bloodmeal
3/4 cup lime/soil sweetner
4 cups earthwormcastings

Add water and your off! Don't forget to dechlorinate your water! Mix the soil until you think it is good, then start all over and do it again!

Mix makes 54 gallons +/-

If you want to use additives, use a PK boost around 21-35 days flower. I use 1 mL/gallon of floralicious plus.
 

treewizard

Member
I agree, to find information on this site you have to do an advanced search and then a search within the thread. You have to wade through 10+ pages of bullshit minimum to find the actual information that you were looking for in the first place.
 

oldog

Member
jim_browsky "Seeing how only the OP of the stickied thread can edit it, wouldn't it still be this person's opinion on what is "correct and relevant"?

Correct- but in my soil mix example I showed how, hopefully, you
would deal with that by saying something like: " almost all posters say 25% perlite but others suggestions range from 5% to 100%"

The newbie could then get started with 25% ( or whatever -just an example)

Night Tiger- "This is specifically a site for learning and experimentation."
Yes and I am saying that a little separation of the two, teacher, would be helpful .:)

PuReKnOwLeDgE: I am terrified of going near a hydro store . Just spent a lot of time making 2" plugs for a cloner that I could have bought for 50 cents each.

clp:" In this game there is no Truth only Opinion."

Yes, and a lot of bull/rubbish is offered as truth and not identified by the poster as their opinion.

Thanks to all - maybe some of us can just try it ourselves on some future post. Would the mods object to that ?
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Night Tiger- "This is specifically a site for learning and experimentation."
Yes and I am saying that a little separation of the two, teacher, would be helpful .:)

I see what you're saying, but in this area, the learning IS in the experimentation. So often what you'll see here is someone running a grow, and trying different things during that grow. Or even better, making mistakes.

Sure, the thread is hundreds of pages long. But, in practice, as you pointed out, you've got a lot of "Awesome grow!" "Bad Ass!" "Subscribed" "Got my seat". But that's just a matter of learning to "study" here at IC (or just about any grow forum, tbh). With a simple spin of the mouse wheel, you can skim the pages until you see one that is more than three words and emoticons. Or until you see a post by the OP, or a photo update.

Then you get to see everything that happened, maybe learn why it happened, and how to prevent it. But you have more than me saying "do this". And if you don't, you have a chance to ask.

You can't separate the learning from the experimentation when they are one in the same. Even if someone were to give you a synopsis in the top post, it would actually be depriving you of valuable information, instead of helping you learn.

Thanks to all - maybe some of us can just try it ourselves on some future post. Would the mods object to that ?

Certainly you can! Nothing wrong with editing your post to reflect updated information if you want. I'll bet you'll quit doing it when you get a nice perpetual going, though :D The 80th time someone challenges you on page 60 about something you put on the OP, from page 30, you'll probably cuss them out, and tell them to "READ THE DAMN THREAD, I'VE ALREADY EXPLAINED IT 80 TIMES!" :D

That will especially happen if you put "facts" on there. The only "facts" we can all agree on are:

The plant comes from a seed (wait for it, someone will even argue this and say 'clones!'). It requires light, nutrients, and water to grow.

What kind of light, what kind of nutrients, and what kind of water are all debatable :D
 

oldog

Member
Night Tiger- where can I get Diatomaceous Earth without going to a Hydro store ?

" Growing cannabis is only as complicated and expensive as you want it to be."

We need some uncomplicated, and simple, and cheap, and low maintainance,
and productive plans and INSTRUCTIONS ! for people to grow enough cannabis for themselves and a few visiting guests. Respect to all .
It shouldn't have to be some big deal. Once they get going they can tweak it.
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Night Tiger- where can I get Diatomaceous Earth without going to a Hydro store ?

I got mine from Ebay. Just make sure you get food grade.

" Growing cannabis is only as complicated and expensive as you want it to be."

We need some uncomplicated, and simple, and cheap, and low maintainance,
and productive plans and INSTRUCTIONS ! for people to grow enough cannabis for themselves and a few visiting guests.
For simple and uncomplicated instructions on reducing cost, there are many resources you can use, like the DIY Link-O-Rama. Even better is reading the threads and seeing what others have done.

And I could give you the exact instructions out the wazoo, and you still won't be able to reliably produce those results. Why? Because you won't understand why you're doing what you're doing, and won't be able to adjust to the fluctuations in a grow environment.



Respect to all .
It shouldn't have to be some big deal. Once they get going they can tweak it.

And yet, it is. We're not baking cookies here.
 

clp

Member
And I could give you the exact instructions out the wazoo, and you still won't be able to reliably produce those results. Why? Because you won't understand why you're doing what you're doing, and won't be able to adjust to the fluctuations in a grow environment.

Wow.. Couldn't have said it more perfectly! :artist:

+Rep
 

Xtensity

Member
If that's what you want, go out and buy Jorge Cervantes grow hand book. He has many of them.


You need to understand that much of what is being done in the grow community is new so there's not a lot of inset details on things. Growing environments vary GREATLY and can change almost every detail of the 'recipe'.

If you're too lazy (or atleast search) then you're too lazy to be growing.

Its very easy to search with the search feature, or even with google.


On google search

Site:http://icmag.com +intitle:"whatever"

or


Site:http://icmag.com +"whatever"
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GrnMtnGrwr

Active member
Veteran
Damn Nitetiger, I wish I could rep every post you've made here.

Learn the basics first, read a book or two. This forum is an interactive environment focused around discussion and sharing of information.
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Nitetiger, I used to respect you. Until you made a little organics suck prove me wrong post. And then I read 70 pages of it. And then you told me to learn how to read. I`d be surprised if you have touched three books out of my million page library. So get over yourself and your ego, just cause you post tips to a forum dont make you an author.
Oh and repeatable projects are fact. Scroggin is fact. Sog, supercropping, MPB, Deep water culture... the facts that are proven through repetition and peer reviewed research are exactly that; facts. Also, we are the professionals establishing the facts; we really dont need scientists telling us whats true and untrue about out profession.

Sorry if my organics thread offended you, but it did exactly what I hoped, and it is a fantastic thread. Sorry you can't seem to understand the value in it. Especially for an "organic" grower.

I never said you can't read, I said you won't. Actually, technically, YOU said it first.

As far as the facts you pointed out, they are nothing more than definitions. They are not detailed instructions. Again, I can tell you ad nauseum EXACTLY what I use, do, and have found over the years, and you still won't be able to replicate my results. You call those facts, let's put them in perspective beyond a definition.

DWC- What's the best method to get dissolved oxygen into the solution? I can tell you right now that you don't need an airstone, and someone will be right along to tell you do. They may even recommend a $100+ Koi pond aerator. What nutes? What kind of water, does it need to be RO? Why can using R/O be more complicated than tap?

Others will tell you you need to do RDWC to get the best results. Or maybe SWC.

All opinion.

SOG - How many plants are best per sq ft. I've heard 4, I've heard 6, even 10. Which is the best? Opinion.

ScROG - Which size opening is best, Half Inch, Quarter, 3/4? I've heard people extolling the virtues of all three. Do you prefer a soft netting or a hard netting? Some swear hard is necessary, but the soft netting users swear by the increased flexibility. How much should you fill your screen? Some say 80%, some say 60%, and some say it actually depends on strain. Imagine that, you have to know those pesky details and principles to come to an informed OPINION.

Supercropping - Wow, really bad choice on your part, because that one is pure speculation. For every user you've got that did it successfully, you've got another who swears it cost them yield. Also, which method do you prefer? Some prefer bending a branch gently until it collapses over. Some think squeezing is the best, while others think it's nothing short of a crime. Also, your thoughts on it lengthening the growth period? What's your OPINION?

MPB - Heh, well, why don't you head over to Krunchbubble's thread for how even a massively experienced grower following 'instructions' end up having problems. Of course, he eventually got it under control, but that was because he was experienced and knew his craft, he was able to adapt and overcome, albeit with some crop loss.

If someone had just been 'following directions', guess how much of their crop they'd have lost? More than likely, all of it.

To address your point on reproduction of results, well, gee, if you can't produce the same results I can with the same 'directions', then my results aren't reproducible, are they? Although, you're wrong again, we're not producing fact, we're producing methods and theories. We can speculate all we want about what causes what and how much, but guess what? We don't have the capability to make those observations in statistically relevant numbers, and we can't test specific outcomes definitively, if nothing else for lack of equipment and funding.

So, um, yeah, we do need scientists do establish indisputable "facts", and you need to brush up on your Scientific Method.

You are right about one thing though. It's not what I write here that makes me an author.

As far as respect, well, I guess I have to answer in kind. I'd never heard of you, and had no opinion of you either way until I read your post bitching about not wanting to read and study on your own. Then I formed an opinion. Care to guess what it was?

As to your library and how much you read, I'm wondering - Are they all Cliff Notes and Reader's Digest versions, or did you actually read a few for yourself? Or maybe you just pulled some random guy out of the local library, told him your time was more valuable than his, and that he should do the reading for you and give you highlights?
 

oldog

Member
Guys this is pathetic. Is this what you come here for ?

Some kind of wrestling contest ?

Maybe a typing contest.

Me, I'm just here to learn to grow weed better.

Respect to Cervantes but his books need some good editing.
Too many instructions like " add fi ounces of whatever"
I figure fi means find information but they never got around to it.
Book is full of those fi's . Pity.... man knows his onions.
Too much of ' well you could do this , but on the other hand you could try that, and then some people say......
Yes - we want a RECIPE BOOK and we can change it as we learn.
 

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