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Is the F22 an Embarassment ?

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
i have read what St Phatty said about the F-22 and the F-35, on the other hand some pilots and analysts have come out and praised those machines to the skies. in the end i think it's safe to assume that contractors got wealthy making them, but i imagine they do kinda do what they are supposed to do. yes they need lots of maintenance but it's seems to be generally agreed that the F22 specially is deadly as a platform. it is ofcourse to be noted that these machines have never really been tested in real war conditions between conventional military superpowers. that would be the real test, how does it do against the s-400? how does it do against the su 35? or equivalent Chinese platforms?

another interesting fact to mention, Israel hasn't done 1 air strike on Syria since the introduction of the s-300 and the electronic war fare equipment. i was expecting them to show the world that their F35 can operate with impunity in the Syrian skies, s-300 or no s-300. but so far they haven't done it. after staging attacks every few days or so, they completely stopped, while as far as i know Iranian advisors and volunteer militias are still doing the same things they were before. it might be too early to judge, but the old s-300 seems to have dented the Israeli pilots fevor for bombing their Syrian neighbors, imagine if it was the S-400, hehe.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
yes they need lots of maintenance but it's seems to be generally agreed that the F22 specially is deadly as a platform.

Israel hasn't done 1 air strike on Syria since the introduction of the s-300 and the electronic war fare equipment. i was expecting them to show the world that their F35 can operate with impunity in the Syrian skies, s-300 or no s-300.


The hurricane showed Russia where one of the F22 weaknesses is - ground support facilities.

An interesting detail about the Israeli F35 - they ordered it 'bare', stripped down, no electronics.

They do not trust the US electronics and want to use their own.

The prime for the F22 electronics is Northrop Grumman.

The prime for the JSF electronics is Harris Corp.

Harris convinced Lockheed to let them do the system integration on the JSF, probably partially based on some of the F22 avionics difficulties. So they buy the modules from Northrop Grumman, sort of how Northrop buys some RF modules from Rockwell.
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
oops!

Mystery hacker steals ‘sensitive’ data on Australian F-35s & newest spy jets

https://www.rt.com/news/406481-australia-f35-data-leak/

Published time: 12 Oct, 2017 13:47

Some 30 gigabytes of defense-related data covering fifth-generation F-35 fighter jets as well as Australia’s newest warships and spy planes has been stolen by a mystery hacker, local media reports citing a top cyber intelligence official.
The hacker, nicknamed “Alf” after the ‘Home and Away’ character played by Ray Meagher, breached a defense contractor’s database containing 30GB of files on some of the West’s most secretive and modern military programs, an official of the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), the government's main cyber intelligence agency, said on Wednesday, the Sydney Morning Herald reports.

The story was initially reported by a freelance journalist nicknamed Stilgherrian and published on the website zdnet.com.

Michael Clarke, an ASD incident response manager, told an information security conference in Sydney the perpetrators hacked into a small aerospace engineering company with about 50 employees, in July 2016.

He said the company “had a significant amount of data stolen … and most of that data was defense-related.” Some of the files related to the US International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), which control the transfer of military-use technology and verify defense exports.

Describing the breach, the official claimed it was “extensive and extreme,"ABC reports.

That respective ITAR data “included information on the [F-35] Joint Strike Fighters, the C-130, the P-8 Poseidon, the JDAM – that's a smart bomb – and a few Australian naval vessels,” Clarke said, according to a copy of a recording provided by Stilgherrian.

The ASD official noted that they “found one document [that] was like a Y-diagram of one of the Navy's new ships and you could zoom in down the captain's chair and see that it's one meter away from the nav [navigation] chair and that sort of thing.”

Australia is set to receive 72 F-35 fighter jets in the coming years, replacing the ageing F-18 Hornets, according to manufacturer Lockheed Martin. The P-8 Poseidon is the Australian Air Force’s newest surveillance aircraft.

The hackers had “full and unfettered access” to the subcontractor’s systems and infiltrated emails of the chief engineer, the finance officer and a contracting engineer.

The subcontractor reportedly had just one IT specialist who worked there for nine months. It had also used primitive default logins and passwords such as “admin” and “guest.”

The ASD was informed about the data breach by "a partner organization" in November last year.

Christopher Pyne, the defense industry minister, said earlier on Thursday the hack attack was a “salutary reminder” for private businesses to step up their cybersecurity.

Pyne said that while the data was commercially sensitive, it was not classified. “It could be one of a number of different actors, it could be a state actor, a non-state actor, it could have been someone who was working for another company, so I would not want to speculate on that at this stage,” he added, as cited by the Australian.

In the meantime, he tried to downplay the significance of the hack: “I don’t think you can try and sheet the blame for a small enterprise having lax cybersecurity back to the federal government. I mean, that is a stretch.”

“You don’t know that we tendered a major defense contract to a small enterprise with poor cybersecurity protections,” the official said.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
oops!

Mystery hacker steals ‘sensitive’ data on Australian F-35s & newest spy jets

https://www.rt.com/news/406481-australia-f35-data-leak/

The official story is that RT is a Russian government website.

I wonder how much Russia and China share the information they've accumulated about US weapons programs.

I think it's to their mutual advantage to share the info.

Russia showed some major corruption with the way the Sochi Olympics was handled, similar to American defense contractors. Emphasis on $$, not quality.

I think the US had a better environment for Quality in military hardware design in the old days of the Rome Air Defense facility, when designs were done in US gov. facilities, without the additional layers of complexity added by the military contractor-supply chain.

I have the general impression that Russia & China have done a better job keeping the focus on Quality, as they caught up to the US in military tech.
 

Elmer Bud

Genotype Sex Worker AKA strain whore
Veteran
G `day St Ph

AI and robots .
Are the next gen . I`ll see your trillion dollar aircraft carrier and raise you 100 000 killer drones .
Now what you say Mr imperialist ?

Also never been easier to steal secrets . Every mother board is made in China .
Huawei blocked out of telecommunications contracts in Australia , but all the hardware is made in China ...

Most folks don`t realise Taiwan was created by the USA after their proxy army were defeated on the main land by the commies .
The other part of the Capatilists army moved to the Golden Triangle and set up the heroin trade .

The Chinese don`t forget easily .


Thanks for sharin

EB .
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
The official story is that RT is a Russian government website.

I wonder how much Russia and China share the information they've accumulated about US weapons programs.

I think it's to their mutual advantage to share the info.

Russia showed some major corruption with the way the Sochi Olympics was handled, similar to American defense contractors. Emphasis on $$, not quality.

I think the US had a better environment for Quality in military hardware design in the old days of the Rome Air Defense facility, when designs were done in US gov. facilities, without the additional layers of complexity added by the military contractor-supply chain.

I have the general impression that Russia & China have done a better job keeping the focus on Quality, as they caught up to the US in military tech.

thats not the story, it's a fact, RT tells you about the world as seen by Russians, but i saw this story else where too, they actually do a good job reporting on stuff not directly related to their interests, same with al jazeerah, they can do good work, even if much propaganda is produced too. it's not like cnn or fox are any less likely to produce propaganda. it's about watching all sides propaganda and using logic to see which parts of which propaganda seem to be true.

as for the military industrial complexes, the US one has got to the point where making contractors rich is part of the reason it exists, while the Russian and Chinese ones are still being run with making the best possible weapons for the best possible price in mind.

basically the US has such a large stock of weapons, equipment and men, that it will never be threatened by anyone. but i don't think they are strong enough anymore to invade and occupy either China, Russia, or even Iran if it has Russian/ Chinese support.

but yes, the US military complex is corrupt and wasteful and they are only keeping up by out spending everyone else by 10 to 1.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
:woohoo:
G `day St Ph

AI and robots .
Are the next gen . I`ll see your trillion dollar aircraft carrier and raise you 100 000 killer drones .
Now what you say Mr imperialist ?

Also never been easier to steal secrets . Every mother board is made in China .
Huawei blocked out of telecommunications contracts in Australia , but all the hardware is made in China ...

Most folks don`t realise Taiwan was created by the USA after their proxy army were defeated on the main land by the commies .
The other part of the Capatilists army moved to the Golden Triangle and set up the heroin trade .

The Chinese don`t forget easily .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Damn you guys are good thinkers.

I'm pretty sure if someone gave you $$ to spend a week war-gaming WW3, you would come up with some more serious insights. It's like being in a meeting at SAIC, and everybody bought their joints and bongs. :woohoo:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

Bloomberg had the news article about the Supermicro motherboards used by the Amazon cloud.

With an on-board spy chip that went un-noticed for many months, maybe a few years.

Basically sending everything to Chinese "catcher's mitt" web nodes set up by the Chinese government.

How did that NOT Hoover up everything of interest ?

And now Amazon Web Services is due to get some big US gov. server contracts ?!

If you've worked on circuit board layout, it's natural to get in the habit of scrutinizing every single component on a board - just part of the job. Plus motherboards have gotten a lot less busy. Components get integrated into Super-IC's. So a tiny little un-explained chip ... it's a lot of people's jobs to notice things like that.

I don't think they've really released publicly how damaging this was.

That plus the 30 GB Australia hack that Gaius shared.

It seems pretty close to a Check-mate, spy wise. Like they took at least one rook and one bishop and one knight.

attachment.php


And, reading the article, it wasn't just Amazon Web Services - it was also Apple web something.

And Tim Cook is complaining about the lapse being publicized ?!

I don't know the history of spying very much, but I have a feeling that this is like the Chicago Bulls during the 90's. Or the Yankees with Babe Ruth.

If I was Trump, I'd be a lot nicer to the Chinese prime minister.
 

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gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
i thought that story about the implanted spy chips was unsubstantiated? has anyone actually shown a mother board from china with a suspicious un explained chip on it? this is probably about getting people off Chinese stuff for economic reasons rather then this being based on facts. of course it would be a super clever move, but companies would be super irresponsible if they didnt check what everything is there for on products they buy. but who knows maybe they were priced so cheap that no one took a closer look lol.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
i thought that story about the implanted spy chips was unsubstantiated? has anyone actually shown a mother board from china with a suspicious un explained chip on it? this is probably about getting people off Chinese stuff for economic reasons rather then this being based on facts. of course it would be a super clever move, but companies would be super irresponsible if they didnt check what everything is there for on products they buy. but who knows maybe they were priced so cheap that no one took a closer look lol.

It was a Chameleon chip - it didn't look like an IC. It looks like the decoupling capacitors which are everywhere on motherboards - and I'm sure that wasn't an accident. The tiny chip was cleverly designed, and cleverly manufactured.

Something motivated Apple to pull 7000 Supermicro server boards from their Cloud operations.

To me the article seems pretty thorough, and the allegation solid.

And, if I was Apple corporate, I would also try to impede Bloomberg's publication of the story.

I never liked outsourcing.
 

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