Massive cross-platform censorship just happened

St. Phatty · Oct 16, 2018

Gypsy Nirvana said:
Out Google Google?

Hmmm....if only I had a great database developer that could work with me - then ehhh,....maybe?

You definitely have the makings of a fantastic work environment for programmer type folks.

You could actually let programmers have any strain they wanted, every day, simply as a fringe benefit.

Cali-O ? No Problem.

Wifi ... Cookies ... OG Kush etc. etc. etc. ... No Problem.

Though, actually, when I think about it I realize - most gifted programmers already have access to really good pot.

How about making a Cheech & Chong type movie about a start-up where creativity is encouraged, not just by access to premium Wake & Bake materials, but by the simply asking the question,

"Can we Out Google Google ?"

I wouldn't propose to compete with Google head on.

But people are really sick and tired of being censored.

Your ability to 'walk the fine line' at ICMag, and to allow most forms of Truly Free Speech - well, let's be honest.

ICMag is ahead of Google, Facebook, and Youtube, in that regard.

Elmer Bud · Oct 16, 2018

In war, truth is the first casualty. Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 BC - 456 BC)

The most fundamental of the Chinese fifth century general Sun Tzu's principles for the conduct of war is that "All warfare is based on deception".

Klompen · Oct 16, 2018

I'm not sure why you're talking about trying to "Out-Google Google" when there are already alternative search sites. I use DuckDuckGo for almost everything and only occasionally resort to Google if I am having a particularly hard time finding things.

Unfortunately with net neutrality shut down right now, competing with the giants will be harder than ever. Can't run alternatives to YouTube(a google site) if the ISPs throttle it.

St. Phatty · Oct 16, 2018

Klompen said:
I'm not sure why you're talking about trying to "Out-Google Google" when there are already alternative search sites. I use DuckDuckGo for almost everything and only occasionally resort to Google if I am having a particularly hard time finding things.

Unfortunately with net neutrality shut down right now, competing with the giants will be harder than ever. Can't run alternatives to YouTube(a google site) if the ISPs throttle it.

I use DuckDuckGo too. I have a DuckDuckGo browser page set up with the term "business news" and I read the first 5 or so business news websites that are consistent & interesting.

gaiusmarius · Oct 16, 2018

this is what you get when you start censoring people and punishing people for their opinions. a country of people forced to live a lie when it comes to certain subjects, why? not because the majority wants them to, no, because the minority screams the loudest and is on the side of the elite, who love nothing better then seeing the population divided.

We’re staying silent out of fear

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6581e51e53a3

By Charles Lane
Opinion writer
October 15 at 6:51 PM

Most ordinary people found it unbearable to live under communism in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. The reasons varied: shortages of consumer goods, incessant propaganda, restrictions on travel.

Nothing was more psychologically exhausting than the constant pressure to watch every word one said, and to pretend to believe things one did not, for fear of negative repercussions. Dissidents called this “double morality” or “double consciousness.” It drove people crazy. Actually, it drove some to suicide.

Only among trusted family and friends was it possible to speak one’s mind, yet even that was not guaranteed. Of all aspects of totalitarian life, citizens of the former Eastern Bloc say, this is the hardest to explain to those who grew up in the democratic West.

Until now, perhaps. A new study of political attitudes in the United States offers stunning evidence that most Americans censor themselves, except among people they regard as like-minded, on a bundle of sensitive topics: immigration and immigrants; race and racism; gay, lesbian and gender issues; and Islam and Muslims.

Opinions
We’re staying silent out of fear

An activist wears tape on her mouth while protesting in San Francisco on Oct. 4. (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)

By Charles Lane
Opinion writer
October 15 at 6:51 PM
Most ordinary people found it unbearable to live under communism in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. The reasons varied: shortages of consumer goods, incessant propaganda, restrictions on travel.

Nothing was more psychologically exhausting than the constant pressure to watch every word one said, and to pretend to believe things one did not, for fear of negative repercussions. Dissidents called this “double morality” or “double consciousness.” It drove people crazy. Actually, it drove some to suicide.

Only among trusted family and friends was it possible to speak one’s mind, yet even that was not guaranteed. Of all aspects of totalitarian life, citizens of the former Eastern Bloc say, this is the hardest to explain to those who grew up in the democratic West.

Until now, perhaps. A new study of political attitudes in the United States offers stunning evidence that most Americans censor themselves, except among people they regard as like-minded, on a bundle of sensitive topics: immigration and immigrants; race and racism; gay, lesbian and gender issues; and Islam and Muslims.

The report by More in Common, a new nonprofit dedicated to understanding and healing political polarization in the United States and Europe, is based on a nationwide survey of nearly 8,000 people conducted this past December and January.

It found that between 51 and 66 percent of Americans agree there is “pressure to think a certain way about” each of the aforementioned topics, with immigration seen as the least sensitive and Islam the most.

Meanwhile, 68 percent report that “it is acceptable for me to express what I think” about race, or Islam, only among “people who are like me.” On immigration, 73 percent feel that way; on gay, lesbian and gender issues, the figure is 70 percent.

Political freedom has never been absolute in the United States, to be sure. For much if not most of our history, ostracism or worse awaited advocates of racial equality, especially in the South. If anyone understands the oppressiveness of being forced to present a false front every day, it would be the American gay men and lesbians who grew up in the era of the closet.

Conversely, a certain measure of self-censorship is necessary to democracy; to the extent that people refrain from gratuitously broadcasting bigotry, it promotes trust and rational discourse.

For all that, the More in Common report confronts us with a disturbing reality. We are a long way from the “double morality” of Eastern Europe, but we are, apparently, living among many millions of citizens who routinely lie or dissemble about their political opinions out of fear.

And what do they fear? Not necessarily government repression, the report suggests, but ridicule and harassment from their fellow citizens, which is often magnified by social media and can sometimes lead to trouble at school or work.

Large majorities of the public — 80 percent or more — see both hate speech and political correctness as problems plaguing American politics.

Defiance of the latter fueled Donald Trump’s electoral rise. Outrage at the former fuels the anti-Trump resistance.

Under communism, members of the party had to watch their words and deeds as much or more than other citizens did.

In the United States today, right- and left-wing tribes — Progressive Activists and Devoted Conservatives, as the More in Common report designates them — enforce “core beliefs” within their own ranks. A quarter to a third of Americans feel pressure to “think a certain way” about controversial issues even among people like themselves, according to the report.

Among progressives, more men than women felt pressure to conform; among conservatives, more women than men did.

With these less-than-tolerant ideological factions dominating everything from town hall meetings to Twitter, the far larger percentage of Americans who do see nuances, and who do favor policy compromise, keep their heads down.

They now constitute what the report describes as an Exhausted Majority, consisting of about two-thirds of the electorate. And 65 percent of the Exhausted Majority agree with the statement “people I agree with politically need to be willing to listen to others and compromise.” Yet their views are not reflected in political discourse, they believe.

They’re right: According to the report, the progressive and conservative ideologues who dominate Democratic and Republican party politics are 14 points more likely than the Exhausted Majority to believe that “people I agree with politically need to stick to their beliefs and fight.”

For the time being, the president of the United States is openly sowing fear and anger for political gain in the 2018 midterm elections, and his Democratic Party opponents seem increasingly tempted to respond in kind. Hope for more decent and, indeed, freer politics lies in the possibility that members of the Exhausted Majority will wake up and raise their voices.

St. Phatty · Oct 16, 2018

gaiusmarius said:
this is what you get when you start censoring people and punishing people for their opinions. a country of people forced to live a lie when it comes to certain subjects, why? not because the majority wants them to, no, because the minority screams the loudest and is on the side of the elite, who love nothing better then seeing the population divided.

It's very interesting to see the effect that 20 years of corporate life has had on one of my younger brothers.

When he graduated from college, he was by far the best socialized of the 4 brothers in the family.

Now he is on the ropes, emotionally. Painted into a corner by a son/daughter (transgender) child who has recently been using opiates recreationally. Not super technical, but working in a technical job, where he is always vulnerable to co-workers with better technical skills and decent people skills.

Add in the mortgage etc., a wife who had breast cancer and is still going but having problems.

Now he has become a clone of my older brother, total corporate worldview. Talking about 9-11 with him is a total minefield.

Every time the economy grows in terms of jobs, people are wrenched from their old communities as they go to new jobs in new places.

Then when the job opportunities shrink, it's even more terrifying for them.

You end up with a very fractured populace.

Gypsy Nirvana · Oct 16, 2018

Now we have the speech police - how long before we have the thought police?

Having always been outspoken - I'm not changing my ways to suit what some government or group says that I can say or even think - we have got to this stage primarily thru the apathy of the majority and their fear of being labelled with the latest weaponized buzz-word by a bunch of loonies.

White Beard · Oct 16, 2018

You missed the part where GOVERNMENT is restricted in this regard but PRIVATE ENTITES have no such restriction. They can and will and do.

How ironic that the much-hated government is the ONLY barrier reining in predatory private interests...but I know that’s not your narrative

Klompen · Oct 16, 2018

I generally support basic leftist goals, but the Left often drives me crazy. I get so frustrated with the thought police aspect of modern Leftism. I strongly support free speech and I really like places like this where the really out-of-control extremists are moderated but generally its ok to say whatever is on your mind. There's so few places on the net where there's open discussion that isn't openly biased in one direction or another.

Once you take the extremists out of the mix; we really have more in common than not when it comes to most issues. The average person in this world wants basic security, basic respect, and a fair society. Unfortunately the extremists have tied basic issues to their agendas and used that to polarize the general populace toward one extreme or the other. This ironically leaves most people unrepresented when it comes to what they actually want society to look like.

What's even worst is that "centrism" has also been taken over by extremists. "Centrism" has become code for compromised ethics(aka "selling out"). Everything that means anything to the average person always ends up getting hijacked by extremists.

White Beard · Oct 18, 2018

True. I have noticed for some time a persistent tendency on the “right” to imagine themselves a significantly larger percentage of the population than they are in fact.

Lately, the “everybody knows” is that they constitute upwards of 70% of the US population, largely due to the constant fluffing the receive from “conservative” “thought-leaders”. The true number is much closer to 30%, but those 100 million are all ages, probably 3/5ths can vote. It’s enough to swing an election, but not without all the Republicans they’ve driven away these last 10 years or so.

These 30% are hard core, religious mostly, anti-government largely, and white almost entirely.

Kind of inevitable. Keep telling them over and over how put-upon and laughed at they are, how strong they are to stay true to tradition, how important it is not to let THEM push US out of OUR country, how WE are the REAL Americans, WE believe in VALUES - not like THEM. THEY have NO values, THEY only want to DESTROY America and WE CAN’T LET THEM!!!!!1

How to manipulate an audience: taking sides. I would say look it up but books like that aren’t available to the public. A trick I learned from Newt Gingrich, who typically sells stuff like that to a select private audience. Other examples of ‘books that don’t exist’ are The Art of Propaganda, and The Natural Superiority of The White Race.

To make this more on-topic: because of this professionally encouraged optimism regarding numbers, they believe themselves and their “position” on matters to be “the center”...which is, if you think about it, the only way they could ever consider Clinton, Biden, Or Obama (*all* center-right) for ‘leftists’ - and EXTREME leftists at that. They simply can neither see nor believe they themselves could ever be on the fringe. They don’t check themselves, they don’t check each other, and everyone else is a liar or a fool or both. THEM, they check.

I don’t see any signs of a real tug-of-war going on between the “conservatives”and the “liberals”.
Mostly what I see is “conservatives” trying to roll back the 20th century, and everybody else trying to stop them. The ‘16 elections basically destroyed the Democratic Party, and the current situation is basically done destroying the Republican Party. 2020 is looking like US Armageddon right this second.

PDX Dopesmoker · Oct 18, 2018

All these self-identified and so-called potheads getting all hot and bothered because Fæcebook isn't allowing sanctimonious busybodies tell them what to think. Is there any corner of the internet that hasn't been invaded by buttclenching social media faggots yet?

St. Phatty · Oct 18, 2018

PDX Dopesmoker said:
Is there any corner of the internet that hasn't been invaded by buttclenching social media faggots yet?

What is the definition of that ?

If no definition is available, who is an example ?

Is there a certain amount of time (average minutes per day) you need to spend on Facebook to qualify ?

gaiusmarius · Oct 18, 2018

PDX Dopesmoker said:
All these self-identified and so-called potheads getting all hot and bothered because Fæcebook isn't allowing sanctimonious busybodies tell them what to think. Is there any corner of the internet that hasn't been invaded by buttclenching social media faggots yet?

sorry man, but i think you are totally missing the point.

from saying i might not like your opinion, but i will fight for your right to have it, to saying if you disagree with certain ideas you must be shut down. this is what it's about, not abut whining social justice warriors or the pc police, or the meme wielding right wing. it's about letting people speak, because for most people speech equals thought, so if you shut down speech you shut down free thought. if you can't see the problem this will bring with it, i can't explain it. but the end result will be that a certain amount of the population will be forced to live a lie in their daily interactions. just like in Soviet times, certain thoughts and opinions will only be expressed in secret. we only need to read history to see where that has ended before. not a place we want to go i think.

Klompen · Oct 18, 2018

Lets also not forget that it's not just Left-Wing sources that have been banned. Right-Wing sources are also getting banned. Any source that disagrees with the political establishment gets the axe. That includes people like Ron Paul, a former US senator and member of the Republican Party(the man who started the pre-Bachmann/Palin Tea Party Coalition).

Practically every major page that tries to hold cops accountable is being shut down. Its bad enough that for the last few decades most cop shows depict internal affairs officers as the enemy, but now even citizen watchdog groups are being silenced.

Mr. Greengenes · Oct 18, 2018

Great conversation, I've got nothing to add. Here's another cool alternative search engine;
https://www.ecosia.org/

PDX Dopesmoker · Oct 18, 2018

The sky is falling!!! cluck cluck cluck

Gypsy Nirvana · Oct 18, 2018

Interesting perspective - there is much angst in your words - and for some odd reason I started looking for some sort of analogy to explain this enormous rift you have now in US society - and my mind settled on the recent - Conor McGregor vs Khabib Nurmagomedov UFC fight - thinking McGregor represented the west/reps and Nurmagomedov the dems/east - or maybe I should reverse that?

Identity politics has taken over - someone will always back a showman.

White Beard said:
True. I have noticed for some time a persistent tendency on the “right” to imagine themselves a significantly larger percentage of the population than they are in fact.

Lately, the “everybody knows” is that they constitute upwards of 70% of the US population, largely due to the constant fluffing the receive from “conservative” “thought-leaders”. The true number is much closer to 30%, but those 100 million are all ages, probably 3/5ths can vote. It’s enough to swing an election, but not without all the Republicans they’ve driven away these last 10 years or so.

These 30% are hard core, religious mostly, anti-government largely, and white almost entirely.

Kind of inevitable. Keep telling them over and over how put-upon and laughed at they are, how strong they are to stay true to tradition, how important it is not to let THEM push US out of OUR country, how WE are the REAL Americans, WE believe in VALUES - not like THEM. THEY have NO values, THEY only want to DESTROY America and WE CAN’T LET THEM!!!!!1

How to manipulate an audience: taking sides. I would say look it up but books like that aren’t available to the public. A trick I learned from Newt Gingrich, who typically sells stuff like that to a select private audience. Other examples of ‘books that don’t exist’ are The Art of Propaganda, and The Natural Superiority of The White Race.

To make this more on-topic: because of this professionally encouraged optimism regarding numbers, they believe themselves and their “position” on matters to be “the center”...which is, if you think about it, the only way they could ever consider Clinton, Biden, Or Obama (*all* center-right) for ‘leftists’ - and EXTREME leftists at that. They simply can neither see nor believe they themselves could ever be on the fringe. They don’t check themselves, they don’t check each other, and everyone else is a liar or a fool or both. THEM, they check.

I don’t see any signs of a real tug-of-war going on between the “conservatives”and the “liberals”.
Mostly what I see is “conservatives” trying to roll back the 20th century, and everybody else trying to stop them. The ‘16 elections basically destroyed the Democratic Party, and the current situation is basically done destroying the Republican Party. 2020 is looking like US Armageddon right this second.

Dropped Cat · Oct 19, 2018

Let's be clear, internet censorship and free speech are not equal.

Internet censorship is governed by the moderators, who specifically
notify the end user of its data collection and use of information.

Free speech is not interchangeable with internet censorship.

One can express an opinion outside the confines of the innerwebs
without being censored.

The problem arises with the notion the web is the only source
of information, which is in fact not true.

Just because your wife does anal, doesn't mean all women will.

Bumbatar · Oct 19, 2018

Word on the street is a free social network called MEWE is just like Facebook minus all the bullshit

Klompen · Oct 19, 2018

Bumbatar said:
Word on the street is a free social network called MEWE is just like Facebook minus all the bullshit

Yes, the interface needs to evolve quite a bit in many regards, but MeWe is a much better site

Massive cross-platform censorship just happened

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