rips on leaves + light green leaves on all plants (pics)

!!! · Nov 24, 2010

Many different strains here.
All sharing a res.
Last 2 pics are the 1st plants to show symptoms. Isolated.

Not sure if the pic shows it but the leaves are light green. I'm feeding maxigro + calmag (5-10ml/gal) at ~900ppm. Any burn you see is from weeks ago.

All plants heavily defoliated over the past few weeks.

I'm thinking TMV or some other infection. There are no pests anywhere in the garden minus a handful of fungus gnats. I have been checking daily for the past month.

raphenilweed · Nov 24, 2010

I am not an expert but I have been thoroughly reading the Water&Nutrients chapter from Jorge C.'s Medical Growers Bibble because I am having some issue myself. Most of the pictures look pretty healthy. The Second to last picture looks like early stage of Mg deficiency (as seen in book drawing). Although you did say you are using Mg additive. The books drawings of "Early stage X deficiency" all look very similar. I would suggest a micro-nutrient blast. I was reading that although you may be giving plant nutrient, if it has too much or too little of another nutrient that works in-conjunction with other micronutrients, that said nutrient you are giving will not be used by the plant.

GeorgeSmiley · Nov 24, 2010

I get that if I burn em a little and it tears and twist the new growth which isn't that strong, when it grows out it looks like somethings eating it. I have 10 examples of this on 1gal plants that I burned with kelp. It was simple cause and effect, nothing else more established burned.

For what it's worth, when my plants are growing strong and my soil is pretty hot, I get all kinds of twisting, especially if I let the soil dry out an extra day past what I should.

So twisting and a bit of tearing is common in my garden and after research I havent given it another thought. TMV, well I'd like to see a lot of these cases of supposed tmv get tested because a lot of these symptoms are normal for me and some friends and their cuts have nothing to do with mine but they did mix their soil to my specs.

HTH
Smiley

Sam the Caveman · Nov 24, 2010

I would venture to say some kind of virus. TMV is only one of many virus' that can infect your plants.

Currently I just realized I have a wrinkle leaf virus in all my plants. I thought it was just lingering damage from root aphids or an internal fungus, but after some research its obviously a wrinkle leaf virus.

I've had other types of virus' that are more commonly seen that didn't effect the plant other than how it looked. If that is your case, I wouldn't worry about it, next round just use clean clones. This wrinkle leaf virus is bad, it makes the plants look... ...horrible. Every leaf is wrinkling up at the base and pointing the tip straight down, and growth is slow.

I just folair fed them some physan 20, which the label says is effective at killing TMV, and they suggest it is effective at killing other virus'. I used 0.5ml / 1/8 gal. I'll report results back in a few days or when I see results or not.

!!! · Nov 27, 2010

Physan20 is not systematic meaning the plant doesn't take it up. It might kill the virus in the res and on the surface of the plant, but not in the plant itself. Maybe phyton27 may help, though it's specifically for bacterial and fungal infections rather than virii.

http://www.phytoncorp.com/labels.html

I don't think my issue is burn. The PPM of the res is 800-900 and there is no new burn on the leaves (the only leaf tip burn you might see in pics is from weeks prior.)

I don't care about twisting and rips on the leaves. I do care that my leaves are never truly green. They have a lime/light green color, and if you look at them very closely, it's a yellow/green mosaic rather than any one plain color. It may not be a virus, but it's definitely not normal.

Sam the Caveman · Nov 27, 2010

Since the folair spray, they have started to look worse. I sprayed them 3x day for 2 days.

I guess its not that big of a deal for me, since the plants were F'ed anyways. Its weird though, they are still growing.

SumDumGuy · Nov 28, 2010

!!! said:
Many different strains here.
All sharing a res.
Last 2 pics are the 1st plants to show symptoms. Isolated.

Not sure if the pic shows it but the leaves are light green. I'm feeding maxigro + calmag (5-10ml/gal) at ~900ppm. Any burn you see is from weeks ago.

All plants heavily defoliated over the past few weeks.

I'm thinking TMV or some other infection. There are no pests anywhere in the garden minus a handful of fungus gnats. I have been checking daily for the past month.

Have you tried a system flush? Sometimes my rez turns on me and all I need to see is one leaf change. (BaM FLusH). Next day everything is in check again.

I see an iron deficiency in the early stages as well as what appears to be a nitrogen deficiency. This leads me to assume a lockout is beginning. I wouldn't wait and just flush everything with plain ph'ed water. Run it for a few hours then drain again - refill - and calibrate with nutes at half dose for a day. Use the addback method to bring up to full dose the following couple days. Everything heals faster in hydro.

As for the leaf tears - I would not think virus yet because they have white edges indicating a tear that dried or being bitten into. When the green color matches into the tear it looks more like a mutation caused by virus. You didn't state bugs so I'll assume it was a necrotic area that dried and broke off. Nonetheless the foliage looks stunning and standing very straight and flat. Leaves turning in either direction can indicate pH issues. Watch you pH swing carefully. Either you're using the same juice too long or you need to calibrate equipment.

funkervogt · Nov 28, 2010

Just to confirm the realness of !!!'s virus, here's what mine look like.

I've been working with these plants for some time in soil. System is locked-in. Haven't had PH or nute def problems in years.

First only a few clones had these, then all. My entire garden is sick with the bug.

TanzanianMagic · Dec 6, 2010

!!! said:
Many different strains here.
All sharing a res.
Last 2 pics are the 1st plants to show symptoms. Isolated.

Not sure if the pic shows it but the leaves are light green. I'm feeding maxigro + calmag (5-10ml/gal) at ~900ppm. Any burn you see is from weeks ago.

All plants heavily defoliated over the past few weeks.

I'm thinking TMV or some other infection. There are no pests anywhere in the garden minus a handful of fungus gnats. I have been checking daily for the past month.

You have a cat. :kitty: You can even see saliva on some of the leaves, and tiny tears where a fang ripped into them.

I suggest some catnip is in order.

Midnight Tokar · Dec 6, 2010

I don't know about the cat part......maybe, but in the last several pictures it definitely looks like you splashed something on the leaves. It looks like you may have the start of nute lockout caused by PH issues?

mark6699331 · Dec 7, 2010

You guys and girls are underplaying the severity of this epidemic perfect virus.

generalgrievous · Dec 7, 2010

WOW... ^^^ that was intense... smoke one man, please. :whee:

TanzanianMagic · Dec 7, 2010

1) faded edges

This is pretty typical for the beginning stages of phosphorus/potassium deficiency or lockout. Next the leaves are going to go necrotic, and that will be that.

2) The pale and stunted tops

This is typical of a high PH. High Ph's lock out non-mobile nutrients - mainly the trace elements/metals (iron, zink, etc.)

Lastly, I have a little theory about cats and plants. I think the saliva of cats may contain an enzyme/virus/bacterium that attacks the plants, causing them to send out distress signals for insect pests, which draw bigger insects and ultimately the small rodents that cats depend on for their food.

Also, they of course chew on plants to inducing vomiting so they can clear their stomaches of hairs from their pelts, and other indigestible parts of their prey.

So do you have a cat or not?

Buds4Breakfast · Dec 7, 2010

Yikes, I sure hope chocolate mark is a conspiracy theorist! Unfortunately it sounds like he may be on to something. Lets all hope he is completely nuts! haha

I had a cat that used to LOVE leaves. Fresh or dry. I used to give her a moutainous plate of dry leaves that would disappear instantly. Had to keep her far from babies(clones)

I dont think this is from the cat though. Even if you DO have one.

That is an interesting theory on cats though TM.
Almost like some "perfect" ninja cat goin around infecting plants with its spit. Maybe its spit is what causes the virus Mark is talking about? OMG these two are related!
haha

OK the hash has effected me for sure...

ps- sorry i can't actually help at this moment, way too high!

TanzanianMagic · Dec 7, 2010

Buds4Breakfast said:
That is an interesting theory on cats though TM. Almost like some "perfect" ninja cat goin around infecting plants with its spit. Maybe its spit is what causes the virus Mark is talking about? OMG these two are related!
haha

Well think about it. When they go feral, cats are territorial, just like other small predators. They stick to the same trails as their prey. So when they start damaging plants on their way, they are also attracting prey to their trails.

At the same time, diseased plants attract pests away from healthy plants, which helps them survive.

I have been using weeds to attract pests away from my plants, and it works very well. It think it would work as a preventative measure for commercial crops too. It beats the heck out of chemical pesticides.

Cheers

Sam the Caveman · Dec 7, 2010

try using some asprin water folair spray at 300mg per gallon.

I did that to my plants and they are recovering very well. I did one application for 3 days and then another one after a few more days and now there is healthy new growth. Some strains recovered quicker than others, but they are all recovering.

check out the last link in my sig for more info about asprin.

mark6699331 · Dec 21, 2010

Unfortunately, we used the TMV litmus test to confirm the virus. I will have access to a gas chromatograph/mass spec machine soon. Try to find a cure. So consipiracy, yes, but unfortunately, a real one.

burny downz · Dec 21, 2010

Sam the Caveman said:
try using some asprin water folair spray at 300mg per gallon.

I did that to my plants and they are recovering very well. I did one application for 3 days and then another one after a few more days and now there is healthy new growth. Some strains recovered quicker than others, but they are all recovering.

check out the last link in my sig for more info about asprin.

what kind of aspirin, Caveman? Is that one application 3 days in a row and then another 1 app after 3 days? Thanks for clarifying, cant wait to try this....

Sam the Caveman · Dec 21, 2010

I just put a 325mg pill (crushed it up) into a gallon of water and stirred it until it dissolved. It will bring the ph way down, so you might want to add ph up. I just dumped some out and refilled it with tap water.

The application depends on how bad off your plants are, if its just one leaf here or there than one application should keep it from spreading and let the plant keep growing at a normal pace.

My plants were truly F'ed, they looked like green baseball bats, all the leaves were crinkled up at the base and the leaves were pointing straight down. They are looking great now, about 2 weeks later and you can't even tell they were messed up.

My application was 2x per day for 3 days, that should work if your plants are in the severely F'ed category.

darrmann · Dec 22, 2010

funkervogt said:
Just to confirm the realness of !!!'s virus, here's what mine look like.

I've been working with these plants for some time in soil. System is locked-in. Haven't had PH or nute def problems in years.

First only a few clones had these, then all. My entire garden is sick with the bug.

that is not a virus and certainly not mosaic virus

rips on leaves + light green leaves on all plants (pics)

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