Help - disaster strikes 4 weeks into flower (incl. photos)

paravis · May 17, 2017

Hello everyone, first post here, but long time reader. I've got a total disaster happening, and need some serious advice.

Candyland strain, was a very healthy plant up until recently.

4 weeks into flower, the plant very quickly started getting thin, brown, and crispy fan leaves towards the top of the plant. Nothing of interest has happened.

I have cut back nutes significantly and have flushed multiple times since noticing the problem, but that seems not to work. I am using FoxFarm soil and nute regimen, combined with Cal-Mag supplements (3mg/gallon).

All temperatures below 78ºF, RH between 40-50%. Using 400W LED lights. Candyland along with two other types, only Candyland is having these issues.

Any suggestions? Any help would be so greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.

TnTLabs · May 17, 2017

looks like nute burn, too much N, missing K.. are they transpiring?
if you are using Foxfarm soil mix and nutes i bet you overdid it...
too much food for a small light!

paravis · May 18, 2017

Yea, that's what I think. That's why I cut the nutes and started flushing ... Poor guy must have had a weak gene.

Going to continue on with flush and hopefully can salvage some.

Dr.Snow · May 18, 2017

might want to conduct a search for broad mites to cross that possibility off the list (hopefully)

Dr.Snow · May 18, 2017

but yeah prob burnt with ff soil +nutes, what concentration nutes are they getting, ppm, and what soil are you using. How often are you watering / feeding and what ph?

HqFarms · May 18, 2017

What size are the pots and how long have they been in those pots?

paravis · May 18, 2017

Hey Doc, Hq ...

I've been checking for bugs. Actually, right around the exact same time this happened I did find fruit flies (?!) ... definitely not fungus gnats. I'll check for mites, but I was able to get rid of the fly things pretty quick. Drenched with Mosquito Bits. 5/6 plants (all diff strain) went ok after this time.

We've been feeding 6.3-6.4 pH. Three times a week, full strength, 1/2 gallon each feeding. Also feeding pH water at least once a week, pH to 6.4-6.5. As I said, I cut nutes out 100% on the sick plant, but she hasn't recovered.

Soil is the Ocean one from FoxFarm. I haven't paid attention to PPM when feeding since early weeks, after it was always what the FF guide said would be the PPM.

We have a couple other strains that are really troopers (or Candyland is a wuss). They have been strong and healthy through everything, and are still receiving their feedings; though I've dropped it to 1/2 gallon twice a week from the three times.

All plants are in 5-gallon. I seriously considered going 8-gal, but ran out of time. Could it be she is getting bound for resources??

Thanks for all of your responses.

I'm trying desperately to salvage her ... as she is our only sativa dominant. I almost went bananas today and thought about chopping all the sick stalks and leaving the smaller healthy ones. But my best judgment won that war.

Thanks so much everyone. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

paravis · May 18, 2017

Ohh, and they have been in their 5-gal pot since about 3 weeks before flower. So it's been maybe a total of 7-8 weeks now.

There was a period of time where it seemed like they weren't sucking up water like usual. We don't usually have much runoff (we aim for maybe 1/16th of feeding), and this plant was definitely struggling to keep up the thirst like the others.

She actually was starting off to have our most impressive flowers, but now we are just trying to salvage what we can out of that.

HqFarms · May 18, 2017

How long have they been in the 5 gallons and have you been feeding since transplant into the 5 gallons?

For most strains you can get almost three weeks after transplant into ff soil with just straight water before you have to give food or any teas. If you have been feeding since the beginning, you might have a few things going on.
1: nutrient lock out due to excess nutes, too much of one nute will lock out other nutes
2: ph out of wack because of excess nutes, excess nute build up can also lower the ph of the soil and make it more acidic

What are your wet and dry cycles like? How much run off do you get each time you feed? Does your run off get sucked back up into the pot or does it drain else where?

You said you checked for mites. Did you use at least a 60x to view the leaves? The mites you are looking for are called broad mites and you can not see them with your naked eye.

paravis · May 18, 2017

Hey there Hq --

I was feeding immediately after transplant. I gave a pH RO water first, then fed within the next 12-16 hours (maybe even within 6 hours). And I never skipped a feeding or a week. So, in retrospect, I'd definitely do feedings a bit less frequent.

Regarding your two points ...
1- I'm going to give far less nutrients next time at it, and far less frequently.
2- We've been pH the food at 6.3-6.4 each time we feed nutes. 6.4-6.5 each time we feed water. All water is RO. I did not check runoff pH -- something that will be happening for sure next time. (Doh.)

Regarding point 2, should I be testing pH of output runoff, and then adjusting the input pH for input to be within a reasonable range (6-7?) but to compensate for a high or low output runoff? I don't trust soil pH meters. So that's tough. I've just been strict with 6.3 input for nutes and 6.4 input for RO.

This plant was so strong, and then all of a sudden the top fan leaves just ate the big one. This only happened on the tallest parts.

The fan leaves there seem worthless now. Might as well cut them off ... They're only blocking out the lower leaves that are still solid. What are your thoughts?

Is a leaf that is 85% crisp brown (crumbles, brown, shape reminds me of cigarillo) and 15% green worth even keeping? Even if they are the ones closest to the cola tops? Can the tops get their juice from energy production all the way down the stalk? Should I hack those now and let the little ones (that are actually quite healthy) take over?

We're in salvage mode. It's not a good day in paradise right now ... Lol.

What would be a good strategy at this point? Is she good for the long haul -- at "best effort" -- or is there something I should do to help her out a bit? I feel bad about the probable over-nutes.

cyat · May 18, 2017

Broad mites

paravis · May 18, 2017

Yikes ... Some research on the broad mites really didn't make me smile. Ha ...

We have 3-5 weeks left on these babies. I really wish this happened long before bloom.

Is there a way to definitively prove they are broad mites? From what I've read, taking action on them at this point could be a total gamble.

packerfan79 · May 18, 2017

What ec are you feeding ? Full strength under leds probably your culprit also soil should dry out some between feedings. I would alternate food water food water. Make sure you are getting a decent amount of runoff. Ph meter could be off, double check with ph drops.

paravis · May 18, 2017

Thanks packer ...

What do you mean ec?

I definitely probably (most definitely) kept the soil too wet for a time. So yea, I'm definitely going to start ensuring the soil is good and dry before the next.

We took a few leaf samples today and looked at them under the micro, so I'm not thinking it is an infestation -- unless the mites are still dug into the plant and not living it up in the leaves. Leaning more towards over-nutes or maybe a combination of that and soggy roots.

How much do you think is an acceptable runoff? We put 1/2 gallon into 5gal bucket. Generally only a very tiny bit of runoff. Less than 1/2 cup.

Will grab some pH drops. And also recalibrate. It seems like between 4 and 7, the pH meter is extremely accurate but above 7 is not so accurate. If I use the 10 pH solution, it never is spot on 10.

Anyway, I visited the ladies today, and even considering "the situation", this one seems to be blooming, though nowhere near the others. So I am slightly optimistic.

packerfan79 · May 19, 2017

Hi strong is your feed are you using an ec or ppm meter? If you are not using a meter I would not follow the labels on the bottle mabey half strength. Nute companies are good for telling you to feed at levels that will kill most plants

In soil your water and nutes should be about 6.0 to 6.5

Also runoff is your friend always feed to runoff when you are in soil, coco, even rockwool. People who feed every time in soil come out with shitty tasting weed. Soil needs regular water to run off. 20-30 % is good.every other feed, Water feed water. I have a theory that siol won't uptake,as well when the soil is to wet. I, always noticed a bump in growth the day after I feed, when the,soil is starting to get dry. Not bone dry, stick your finger in and if it feels dry water.

I don't think you have mites, I think you are overfeeding them. And getting build up in the soil due to no runoff, and not enough plain waterings. I, would flush 2x the volume of the pot and press the, excess water out. Then go from there.

acridlab · May 19, 2017

Looks like you have alot of white pistils still and your leaves aren't contorting,, they're just hooking… doubt its broad mite.
if i were to guess, is root aphids, plus a dash of overfeed n overheat combo.. get temps down to 68 or so in the root zone and hit em with bayer citrus insecticidal,, takes along time to recover..

TnTLabs · May 19, 2017

im with packerfan on this one... do a good flush and never feed full dose like on the labels, half should be fine.. do a slurry test and then you know exactly what is going on

paravis · May 20, 2017

Thanks everyone for your information and expertise.

I think you're right ... I haven't been checking PPM or EC, only pH. We have a Hanna device. Chances are, I was feeding them toxic sludge. A friend of mine also cautioned against following the nutes labels.

I'm going to start a solid flush session over the next day or so, and also drop the temps to much lower.

TnT - what's a slurry test? Sounds messy ... Ha ha ... I would like to do one.

packerfan, when you talk about feeding to runoff, you mean to make my nutes mix and then put it into the tray and let the pot suck it up from the bottom?

Much thanks for all your help. Sincerely, a newbie. ;-)

packerfan79 · May 20, 2017

paravis said:
Thanks everyone for your information and expertise.

I think you're right ... I haven't been checking PPM or EC, only pH. We have a Hanna device. Chances are, I was feeding them toxic sludge. A friend of mine also cautioned against following the nutes labels.

I'm going to start a solid flush session over the next day or so, and also drop the temps to much lower.

TnT - what's a slurry test? Sounds messy ... Ha ha ... I would like to do one.

packerfan, when you talk about feeding to runoff, you mean to make my nutes mix and then put it into the tray and let the pot suck it up from the bottom?

Much thanks for all your help. Sincerely, a newbie. ;-)

When I say feed to runoff, I mean runoff from the bottom of the pot. Water till water comes out the bottom

paravis · May 21, 2017

Gotcha - thanks packerfan!

We did a solid flush yesterday. Using RO, so it's a bit expensive as far as that goes ... But going to resume proper feed starting tomorrow.

Throughout this entire season, I'm pretty sure we haven't had much runoff at all. I'm getting to understand the concept of that now, though ... And that when none of those nutes get the opportunity to run out, it probably turns into a toxic cesspool down there.

Thanks again for your info.

Help - disaster strikes 4 weeks into flower (incl. photos)

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