Endophytes for ipm

moses wellfleet · May 15, 2019

Please read this article and join a discussion on this topic!

I have a plant that is very resistant to powdery mildew and some cuts that are very susceptible to it!

My plan is to do the whole leaf smoothie thing with the resistant plant and try inoculate the cuts that suffer heavily from pm!

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/artful-amoeba/leaf-fungus-smoothie-brings-endangered-hawaiian-flower-back-from-the-brink/

Gry · May 15, 2019

This sounds neat as can be !

moses wellfleet · May 15, 2019

Gry said:
This sounds neat as can be !

That’s what I thought, and it is not so different from inoculating human babies against disease!

Rico Swazi · May 16, 2019

moses wellfleet said:
Please read this article and join a discussion on this topic!

I have a plant that is very resistant to powdery mildew and some cuts that are very susceptible to it!

My plan is to do the whole leaf smoothie thing with the resistant plant and try inoculate the cuts that suffer heavily from pm!

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...dangered-hawaiian-flower-back-from-the-brink/

great article Moses , I didn't see where they stated what the 11 known endophytes they had used were.

They mention yeast but not the others I could see. Still interesting they found PM in such large numbers after the inoculation and the plant was thriving according to them.

I was thinking that your cuts (same mother?) need to be inoculated with soil from that mother. It may be as simple as that but if you already are inoculating, then disregard this message.

If you haven't, Id try that and drink that smoothie

moses wellfleet · May 16, 2019

Yes so I am growing in organic soil that I reuse, replanting directly in the same container after harvest. Some plants would indeed have been exposed to soil from the highly resistant plant. There is one strain that possibly did build up some resistance after arriving, in fact it is the cut that brought the pm in the first place. I am going to run mostly the resistant plant from now on so there will be greater exposure!!

I’m only assuming that endophytes are responsible for the resistance. If it is somehow just naturally genetically resistant to pm then the smoothie wouldn’t work!!

Microbeman · May 16, 2019

I have long hypothesized that dark septate endophytes (DSE) are what I observe in ACT and V-compost slurries. Many growers able to produce CT with high fungal populations report highly successful vigorous gardens.

I have maintained that these fungi-imperfecti grow into the root systems, enhancing nutrient uptake and pathogen resistance.

Here is a relatively decent article. Be aware of one error where it is implied that DSE are all melanized [colored]. This a misnomer. Many DSE are hyaline [colorless] and many start hyaline and become melanized.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0061332

Another good article;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4408093/

All DSE strains except A. macrosclerotiorum formed intracellular melanised or hyaline microsclerotia

Douglas.Curtis · May 16, 2019

I've read many reports (the last few years now) of the same clones having differing resistances to PM, with the difference being nutritionally based. I would first make sure the cuts are indeed getting the same nutrition as the donor parent. Using recycled organic without testing may make this more difficult.

Drewsif · May 16, 2019

Douglas.Curtis said:
I've read many reports (the last few years now) of the same clones having differing resistances to PM, with the difference being nutritionally based. I would first make sure the cuts are indeed getting the same nutrition as the donor parent. Using recycled organic without testing may make this more difficult.

I've seen many reports of diseased hydro plants quarantined in anaerobic earthbox conditions and fully recover from all symptoms.. We could count the microbes, interview them, whatever, but I prefer to simply accept the supremacy of nature. You dont have to think about things when you submit

Rico Swazi · May 16, 2019

moses wellfleet said:
Yes so I am growing in organic soil that I reuse, replanting directly in the same container after harvest. Some plants would indeed have been exposed to soil from the highly resistant plant. There is one strain that possibly did build up some resistance after arriving, in fact it is the cut that brought the pm in the first place. I am going to run mostly the resistant plant from now on so there will be greater exposure!!

I’m only assuming that endophytes are responsible for the resistance. If it is somehow just naturally genetically resistant to pm then the smoothie wouldn’t work!!

After reading the 1st paper MM linked to, it makes sense (to me) that your cut reached a happy place in regards to fungal infection. Perhaps your new cuts will eventually do the same given time and the right conditions which include the proper amount of inoculation from the start. The paper refers to it as pattern and quantity.

Subsequently, the FPDR increased rapidly, suggesting more hyphae colonized within the roots, finally reaching a steady-state level in rice roots, indicating that fungal proliferation was synchronized with root growth. The fungal biomass was restricted to a certain extent without the ingression of additional hyphae from outside or overgrowth of the hyphae inside. This indicates a transition from an unlimited to a limited fungal growth pattern in the host root and homeostasis between root growth and fungal proliferation. In contrast, the pathogen showed unlimited proliferation in roots and even spread to aerial tissues accompanied by a continuous increase in fungal biomass. This fungal overgrowth led to plant disease and killed the host [53]. Therefore, another difference between mutualism and antagonism is quantitative rather than qualitative. Taken together, these observations indicate that colonization pattern and quantity are deciding factors in whether a fungus-plant interaction is mutualistic or antagonistic.

Rico Swazi · May 16, 2019

Douglas.Curtis said:
I've read many reports (the last few years now) of the same clones having differing resistances to PM, with the difference being nutritionally based. I would first make sure the cuts are indeed getting the same nutrition as the donor parent. Using recycled organic without testing may make this more difficult.

Any links to those reports?

Would be interesting to see if an overabundance of P played a role in suppressing endophyte colonization, including Mycorrhizal fungi

moses wellfleet · May 16, 2019

I don’t think it has much to do with nutrition. I have run the resistant plant enough times to observe that it is consistently the one that has almost no pm infection. Nutrition is uniform for all plants as far as possible. Resistance seems to be a trait of the g13’88 Hashplant hybrids. Plants not related to that line like blueberry doms are looking like they were caught in a blizzard. I really want to find out what is the cause of the resistance!

Rico Swazi · May 18, 2019

I agree, if it was only that simple, we all would be growing the NPK and micros way..
maintaining a healthy natural living soil is not easy and often times work.

We live in a world with bacteria and fungi. Identifying and understanding how to use these 'friends' to our advantage is paramount

not only for our favorite herb, but for our own personal health.

moses wellfleet · May 18, 2019

The smoothie is going down tomorrow. Happy hour!! Drinks on me!!

Weird · May 18, 2019

i was reading somewhere about observing plants outdoors and using plants that thrived to treat the ones that did not

a few products such as regalia seem to use this particular methodology

good thread

Rico Swazi · May 20, 2019

moses wellfleet said:
The smoothie is going down tomorrow. Happy hour!! Drinks on me!!

what the hell...you drinking it or pouring it all over yourself ? Edit (sorry, jocularity not my best suite)
I am still trying to discover what the consortium of 11 endophytes are. no luck so far.

Edit 2- I am however finding quite a bit on Pseudozyma aphidis (yeast mentioned in original slurry article)

claims are being made P. aphidis works well on Botrytis cinerea also

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/mpp.12775
and a patent application for a product
https://patentswarm.com/patents/US20140141976A1

Got ants? maybe you should get some . check out Microbemans thread on ants

Fred Sanford · May 20, 2019

Good thread, thanks for that Moses. :thank you:

gmanwho · May 22, 2019

awesome article. but as with most there is the slight potential for side effects. im all for the slurry. hands down!!! but it's good to know of possible issues down the road. an it seems its always those "rare patients" are the ones with compromised immune systems that may get a infection. elderly or infants.

when i did a search on Pseudozyma aphidis , one of the active ingredients from the article, it came up with a few rare cases that infected humans.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389203/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26608844

just something worth noting. i found the same things with Metarhizium anisopliae, used to fight crawling insects. few rare cases reported of human infection. i have great success with this. killing of fungus knats and at one point had root aphids , now eradicated thank you. every 2-3 weeks i hand water in with recharge an actinovate.

just something good to know, thats all. after all Dr house isnt in every hospital incase these rare things inoculate in humans.

for pm been foliar spraying actinovate. so far with no issues with a room that had nearby exposure of a small pm outbreak.

b well man

moses wellfleet · Jun 5, 2019

gmanwho said:
awesome article. but as with most there is the slight potential for side effects. im all for the slurry. hands down!!! but it's good to know of possible issues down the road. an it seems its always those "rare patients" are the ones with compromised immune systems that may get a infection. elderly or infants.

when i did a search on Pseudozyma aphidis , one of the active ingredients from the article, it came up with a few rare cases that infected humans.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389203/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26608844

just something worth noting. i found the same things with Metarhizium anisopliae, used to fight crawling insects. few rare cases reported of human infection. i have great success with this. killing of fungus knats and at one point had root aphids , now eradicated thank you. every 2-3 weeks i hand water in with recharge an actinovate.

just something good to know, thats all. after all Dr house isnt in every hospital incase these rare things inoculate in humans.

for pm been foliar spraying actinovate. so far with no issues with a room that had nearby exposure of a small pm outbreak.

b well man

Yes I use Metarhizium, B. Bassiana and L. Muscarium regularly. I just have to assume my immune system is good!

I never got around to doing the smoothie because I noticed that clones that were vegged with the resistant cut on all sides with leaves touching seem to acquire the resistance and it makes sense if you think about it!!

Lost in a SOG · Jun 9, 2019

Low calcium, usually through slowed transpiration for some reason, is the most common cause of pm as i understand it. It maintains the tight junctions between cells.

CannaRed · Jun 9, 2019

moses wellfleet said:
I never got around to doing the smoothie because I noticed that clones that were vegged with the resistant cut on all sides with leaves touching seem to acquire the resistance and it makes sense if you think about it!!

Very cool. Passes resistance by touching leaves. Nature is awesome

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