Tired of having to fight gnats every time you get a brick of coco?

Mukind · Feb 3, 2017

StankyBeamer said:
My friends, i have the solution. Lets face it, whether you buy expensive pre-charged coco or youre like me and get the cheap gh or botanicare bricks, youre gonna have to kill off some gnats. Theres multiple routes, gognats (which doesnt work for shit), bti (which takes forever and still sometimes doesnt work, and soil drenches with pyrethrin/permethrin or h2o2. Well ive found the cheapest, easiest, and most effective strategy for eliminating the pesky bastards. Start getting coco bricks instead of bags, and simply boil the water you use to expand it. This will kill all the hybernating gnat larvae. Unfortunately it will also kill the trichoderma, but the good news is innoculant powder is cheap as fuck on kelp4less.com. put your brick in a 20gal bucket from home depot, and pour big soup pans full of boiling water on it to expand it. As it starts to puff up, scoop the steaming hot expanded coir off the top and cover the bucket with tin foil to seal in the heat. With this technique ive been able to completely drop the use of products like gognats and azamax trying to fight the little bastards. Ill post pics in a minute. Hope this comes in helpful for other cheap-skate coco growers like myself

This is done in mycology to pseudo pasteurize

I once had gnats and had no fucking idea why on one run. I must have fucked it up somewhere and not killed them off.

I'd also recommend using polyfil or some other filter with about a 1/4" hole in the lid to prevent the bucket form warping when the lid is on.

edit - on second thought you don't need the filter, different hobbies. The hole would still work well though.

Galactic · Feb 3, 2017

Stanky i smell you bro, you dont fool me, your grow skills are bleh, full of yourself and this soap opera playing in your mind, i cant believe this lasted 5 pages. I sell flowers keep squishing son

RB56 · Feb 4, 2017

I'm having a hard time seeing how bricked coir can be a source for fungus gnats. I've been using it for several years and have not seen one. It would require that gnats lay eggs in the presumably moist coir piled somewhere waiting for processing. This first step seems unlikely since there isn't anything in coir for gnats to eat, making it an unattractive place to hang out or lay eggs.

The next assumption is that the eggs will survive desiccation and pressure during bricking. Then transport and storage. I think it is safe to assume that the bricked coir isn't going to be a target for gnat eggs.

Finally, we hydrate the coir, the eggs hatch, larvae munch and gnats fly off the surface of our coir. I soak mine in water to break it up, wash it, precharge it with cal/mag add 1/3 perlite and store it in 55 gallon Brute containers. Maybe I've just been likely, but it seems like I should have opened one of the containers, at least once and had a gnat or two fly out. When I've had fungus gnats, they've come from my environment.

StankyBeamer · Feb 4, 2017

ganjalfthegreen said:
5ml SM-90 and 3 ml 29% h2o2.

Done. I dont understand why people have issues with something that has been covered. No offense. Its like getting sunburned everyday and never trying sunscreen.

No offense, but 3ml of h2o2 does nothing but kill microbial life. Same with sm90. I have a gallon bottle of both, the peroxide only phased the larvae when used at 30ml of 29% per gallon, 39 not all fungus gnats are so easily eradicated and your condescension is kind of misplaced, you speak as tho you're the only one here that's tried either of those options, when those are the most commonly recommended options and all they really do is kill pythium. Pyrethrum or bti work vastly better than peroxide or sm90, and boiling water works better than everything previously mentioned. I don't know why everyone is so insistent on slowly killing them and giving them a chance to breed rather than 100% eradication before the coco is even expanded. Idk, maybe I'm weird for not wanting to add shit to my waterings twice a week for months

ganjalfthegreen · Feb 4, 2017

StankyBeamer said:
No offense, but 3ml of h2o2 does nothing but kill microbial life. Same with sm90. I have a gallon bottle of both, the peroxide only phased the larvae when used at 30ml of 29% per gallon, 39 not all fungus gnats are so easily eradicated and your condescension is kind of misplaced, you speak as tho you're the only one here that's tried either of those options, when those are the most commonly recommended options and all they really do is kill pythium. Pyrethrum or bti work vastly better than peroxide or sm90, and boiling water works better than everything previously mentioned. I don't know why everyone is so insistent on slowly killing them and giving them a chance to breed rather than 100% eradication before the coco is even expanded. Idk, maybe I'm weird for not wanting to add shit to my waterings twice a week for months

Methods have different outcomes when its preventative VS reactive so...

I follow what DHF had to say and havent looked back. Innoculate my bricks in rubbermaids with sm90. Let it sit for a few hours, drain, then precharge. 30 ml per gal is....wow. thats something else.

Only time i have ever run into problems was when i ran out of sm90 and cut it from my schedule for over 3 weeks. Whammo, the gnats show up. Yeah I had an tough time once they were there so i started running h2o2. All i know is im back in action with not one gnat. Me *personally*, Im sure as fuck not going to sit there boiling all that coco. Maybe for a personal grow with a light or two, but thats not feasible all the time.

You feed then nutes for months at a time do you not? Why should preventitive pest control not be part of that?

StankyBeamer · Feb 4, 2017

Galactic said:
Stanky i smell you bro, you dont fool me, your grow skills are bleh, full of yourself and this soap opera playing in your mind, i cant believe this lasted 5 pages. I sell flowers keep squishing son

I'm simply trying to share a simple method for making sure medium is clean before entering everybody's grows, not stroking my own ego so idk why your butt is so hurt bro, I'm a moderately good grower. 30% returns on concentrates and 1.1Gpw is hardly shitty, I think you have an inferiority complex my friend, so sorry I tried to share something that I have had success with. And to RB, the general hydroponics coco bricks I get are literally lousy with gnats. I have isolated the issue to the medium, whenever I treat the medium, no gnats, whenever I skip the treatment, boom, dozens of gnats flying out of my soil bin within a week. I don't know if it is because of the hydro stores in my area, or wholesalers poorly storing product, but it is an issue nonetheless and I'm glad you haven't had to deal with the same problem, as it can be quite a pain in the ass.

Dont know why people have to attack what they perceive as ego, but I'm young and relatively inexperienced compared to a lot of farmers here. So sorry to disappoint I guess? :laughing:

StankyBeamer · Feb 4, 2017

And preventative is a measure in my garden. I have hypoapsis, mantids, predatory mites, and bti constantly soaking in my reservoirs, no need to assume I'm lazy just because I didn't write a novel on every single thing I do in my grow, this thread was more specifically about treating fresh medium if your area has gnat problems, which happen to be bad in Michigan. Most disqualifications at the HTCC in clio were for gnat carcasses being stuck in people's flowers and being found by the testing lab. Not a problem I have had but the owner of one of the two main contender companies for flowers every year tell me they got DQ'd for a gnat wing. Not me tho

StankyBeamer · Feb 4, 2017

Also, for the record, if you consult your local entomologist at whatever university is closest to you, fungus gnat larvae can hibernate to overwinter in cold OR dry conditions so they most certainly can survive the dessicating and compression that is applied to the bricks

RB56 · Feb 4, 2017

StankyBeamer said:
Also, for the record, if you consult your local entomologist at whatever university is closest to you, fungus gnat larvae can hibernate to overwinter in cold OR dry conditions so they most certainly can survive the dessicating and compression that is applied to the bricks

Larvae? Your bricks must be much different than mine. No way larvae are surviving that. If they did, I'd see them during processing. I was talking about reasons eggs didn't make sense. Larvae surviving in adverse conditions does begin to address larvae surviving something that is half way to rock.

StankyBeamer · Feb 5, 2017

Tell that to the hydro shops that willfully admit that you have to treat storebought coco for gnats. Or the hundreds of growers that have reported larvae contamination in coco bricks, bagged, and also peat moss based products. It's already been established that hydro store medium is commonly contaminated. And it is totally plausible that you don't notice larvae that are less than 1mm in length. But continue to argue and distract from people discussing effective solutions by all means

RB56 · Feb 5, 2017

StankyBeamer said:
Tell that to the hydro shops that willfully admit that you have to treat storebought coco for gnats. Or the hundreds of growers that have reported larvae contamination in coco bricks, bagged, and also peat moss based products. It's already been established that hydro store medium is commonly contaminated. And it is totally plausible that you don't notice larvae that are less than 1mm in length. But continue to argue and distract from people discussing effective solutions by all means

Solving a problem requires a systematic approach - not unfounded leaps in logic. Conflating harsh conditions in an animal's environment with the process coir goes through to become a brick or loose coir and peat with bricks strongly suggest the problem has been misidentified. Loose media - sure, anything could be living in there. Bricks - dollars to donuts it's the environment. Good luck.

Dropped Cat · Feb 5, 2017

Make sure any house plants or plants outdoors your grow are treated.

Boiling coco is the only way to prevent constant infestation.

Who the hell wants to see flyers in the grow room month after month anyway.

SM 90 is a good additive, cheap too.

Yellow sticky traps are a solution to halt the cycle,
but you must prevent new infestations, boil the coco.

Boil the coco, gnat eggs can remain dormant in bricks for months.

Its called diapause.

StankyBeamer · Feb 5, 2017

Dropped Cat said:
Make sure any house plants or plants outdoors your grow are treated.

Boiling coco is the only way to prevent constant infestation.

Who the hell wants to see flyers in the grow room month after month anyway.

SM 90 is a good additive, cheap too.

Yellow sticky traps are a solution to halt the cycle,
but you must prevent new infestations, boil the coco.

Boil the coco, gnat eggs can remain dormant in bricks for months.

Its called diapause.

Thank you, jeez idk why this guy is so adamant against a half hour step that requires almost zero effort and ensures 100% cleanliness. Some people lol

StankyBeamer · Feb 5, 2017

Ok 1. Even if the dessication and compression kills gnat larvae, it is still stored outdoors and the packaging usually has punctures. 2. Larvae can actually penetrate your roots to burrow into plants, so if they can literally penetrate phloem tissue, why in the fuck is it so hard to believe they could burrow into already compressed coir? Not drastic leaps in logic my friend

gr866 · Feb 5, 2017

I lost about 1/2 weight two grows ago to fungal gnats. I began using SM90 @ 2 ml/gal weekly in a drinch. I mix my batch of nutes, add the SM90 then hand water to 1/3 to 1/2 runoff. I was mixing in my rez but did not like the buildup it caused so this drench weekly works perfect not a single FG in the past two grows.
GR

ganjalfthegreen · Feb 5, 2017

What sort of build up?

watts · Feb 5, 2017

Gr866, what other additives did you add in your reservoir when you used the SM-90? The only problem I had with SM-90 in the reservoir was when I used citric acid as pH down. I no longer use citric acid as pH down and have since switched to Phosphoric Acid.

gr866 · Feb 6, 2017

watts said:
Gr866, what other additives did you add in your reservoir when you used the SM-90? The only problem I had with SM-90 in the reservoir was when I used citric acid as pH down. I no longer use citric acid as pH down and have since switched to Phosphoric Acid.

That was on my last grow, I was using, GH Micro/Bloom 4/6 ml, Cal/magic, Drip Clean, Liquid KoolBloom, and SM90. SM90 are plant extracts (oils), I would notice the oil slime on the water then get a white buildup around the base of the drainage stand pipe in my rez. I use pH up/down as needed, mainly up.
I am now using Canna nutes, cannazym, Boost, cal/magic, drip clean, liq. koolbloom as my base nutes and SM90, weekly in a drench w/30% runoff. For pH up I am using silica. I am hand watering at this point and just went into 12/12, so I will be hooking up the rez in a week or so, mix all but the SM90 as basic rez mix and add the SM90 weekly soil drench.
I like the good flush, with full nutes and SM90 weekly with good runoff, as I don't get good run off with the blumats. May be switching to drip before long.

I have not use citric acid or Phosphoric Acid as pH down, but I have used organic vinegar for pH down before.

GR

YetiOG · Feb 7, 2017

StankyBeamer said:
My friends, i have the solution. Lets face it, whether you buy expensive pre-charged coco or youre like me and get the cheap gh or botanicare bricks, youre gonna have to kill off some gnats. Theres multiple routes, gognats (which doesnt work for shit), bti (which takes forever and still sometimes doesnt work, and soil drenches with pyrethrin/permethrin or h2o2. Well ive found the cheapest, easiest, and most effective strategy for eliminating the pesky bastards. Start getting coco bricks instead of bags, and simply boil the water you use to expand it. This will kill all the hybernating gnat larvae. Unfortunately it will also kill the trichoderma, but the good news is innoculant powder is cheap as fuck on kelp4less.com. put your brick in a 20gal bucket from home depot, and pour big soup pans full of boiling water on it to expand it. As it starts to puff up, scoop the steaming hot expanded coir off the top and cover the bucket with tin foil to seal in the heat. With this technique ive been able to completely drop the use of products like gognats and azamax trying to fight the little bastards. Ill post pics in a minute. Hope this comes in helpful for other cheap-skate coco growers like myself

I quit coco completly and moved to another hydro thats not bug friendly. Perlite! Works really well mixed with rockwool croutons just not too much because bugs like rockwool too.

Boiling water works, so does sm 90 i hear.

Think is that just stops them from starting in fresh coco they can still invade when plants are in it and that fucking sucks.

BTW just be aware water with bti is obviously loaded with bacteria. They will multiply and slime stuff. Especially if you test the solution with a ph pen and cap it off...

You can make a small amount of bti into a huge slimey mess of shit if you add carbs and feed the bti. Its gross but makes the shit way more effective

Miraculous Meds · Feb 7, 2017

YetiOG said:
BTW just be aware water with bti is obviously loaded with bacteria. They will multiply and slime stuff. Especially if you test the solution with a ph pen and cap it off...

You can make a small amount of bti into a huge slimey mess of shit if you add carbs and feed the bti. Its gross but makes the shit way more effective

I use gnatrol hand watered straight into the medium. No messes for me anymore except wiping out the mixing bucket for the hand watering session. I never use any carbs or anything in my res that will cause slime or a bio film build up.

Tired of having to fight gnats every time you get a brick of coco?

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