is it worth amending your soil with rock phosphate if you never use it for longer than 4 months. i ask the question because i understand rock phosphate is very slow release?
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Rock Phosphate too slow for indoor gardening?
- Thread starter moses wellfleet
- Start date
I've been told that it's most useful in soil mixes if you're pretty systematic about re-amending and reusing your soil at least a few times. Haven't used organic soil mixes for a couple years now, but when I did I added it but didn't count on it for a P source in the first grow with that soil. I had some high P guano in there and a little bone meal, which I believe is a little faster P source. It's all in the compost bin now, but my vegetable garden is loving it.
GetUpStandUp
Active member
Yes only if you have micro life to break it down, and yes there are other forms of P that are fast like above, but always remember any mineral put back into the soil is respect for growing, and it will show you how much by producing for you, look up High brix method of growing if you want more understanding of rock powder amendments, I believe it should be the only way to grow, and it natural, and older than us all as our soils on this planet were once very rich in mineral content before man, and look how big those plants, and life were in prehistoric times. Good luck.
i will re-use old soil when i meet anybody who has done it successfully
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=33279&pictureid=836145
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=32340&pictureid=750216
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=17304&pictureid=513002
Plus look at the all the farming areas around us, like the the Central Valley. They certainly don't buy new soil after every harvest!
Seriously, that's when it gets better! I've reamended with a N source, a K source and some lime and experienced even healthier plants than the first go round. (I had rock phosphate and other rock powders in there already) And even unamended I found it great for seedlings, I imagine because the microlife was already well-established and had reached some sort of balance.
heady blunts, nice ta meetcha 
and to answer the OP's question, no, you won't get much if any benefit in a single cycle.
you should definitely consider recycling or better yet, no-till if you're gonna go with organic soil.
check out capt.cheeze1's thread in the stickies for indisputable proof that beautiful buds can be grown in abundance with these methods.
and to answer the OP's question, no, you won't get much if any benefit in a single cycle.
you should definitely consider recycling or better yet, no-till if you're gonna go with organic soil.
check out capt.cheeze1's thread in the stickies for indisputable proof that beautiful buds can be grown in abundance with these methods.
Last edited:
use citric acid in you watering water, bring the pH down to around 6, this will make the P from your rock phosphate available and keep P available in your soil
also helps counteract the liming qualities of rock phosphate
VG
also helps counteract the liming qualities of rock phosphate
VG
I'm not trying to stir the proverbial "pot" here but, I've done extensive tests with pH adjustments in liquids. I've used the EJ pH Up and Down, used guano and seaweed to change the pH in liquid solutions as well as other organic components. What seems to always happen is the pH changes again within just a few hours. I used about a cup of EJ pH just to try to keep a five gallon bucket of liquid tea stable for 24 hours.
I encourage everyone to do a little experimenting with this. It's lots of fun and quite interesting. Keep some notes.
Check the pH of some guano tea. Then check the pH of some Maxicrop liquid mixed with water as directed. Then some Neptune's Harvest fish. The pH may scare you, but our plants love it.
Don't take my word for it. Experiment.
And to reply to the OP's question... I see no reason not to add some slow release nutes like rock phosphate and greensand. Within reason of course. However, they will not supply enough N-P-K to feed your plants properly alone.
Burn1
G
growingcrazy
I really do think that the entire key to organics is variety. You can NEVER have enough different source's of the same minerals.
Think of it like you only being able to eat 8 things for your entire life, does that sound good and nutritious?
Variety is the spice of life!
Think of it like you only being able to eat 8 things for your entire life, does that sound good and nutritious?
Variety is the spice of life!
O
OrganicOzarks
High P guano gets my vote. I do not believe you can get the same end product with Rock Phosphate as with guano. guano will give you better flavors, odors, and in some cases resin production. At least those are my experiences.
You can grow a plant many different ways. You just have to decide what is important to you. Is it to do it as cheap as possible? To get the most yield? To get the highest quality? To have the best odor, and flavor possible? Is it so that you don't have to buy any more mexi brick herb?
Once you figure out what you want to do then you can figure out how you want to do it. I grow for the entire smoking experience. I do not grow for yield. I want the best quality, potency, odor, and most importantly, the best flavor I can get. I am a flavor junky. I feel that it is very important. So I use things in my soilless mixes to promote that.
Honestly you can get high from mexi brick weed. So you really need to figure out what you are trying to achieve with your end product. Then apply growing practices to achieve your goal.
You can grow a plant many different ways. You just have to decide what is important to you. Is it to do it as cheap as possible? To get the most yield? To get the highest quality? To have the best odor, and flavor possible? Is it so that you don't have to buy any more mexi brick herb?
Once you figure out what you want to do then you can figure out how you want to do it. I grow for the entire smoking experience. I do not grow for yield. I want the best quality, potency, odor, and most importantly, the best flavor I can get. I am a flavor junky. I feel that it is very important. So I use things in my soilless mixes to promote that.
Honestly you can get high from mexi brick weed. So you really need to figure out what you are trying to achieve with your end product. Then apply growing practices to achieve your goal.
redneck shogun
Member
I see this became a recycle thread so my 2 cents. Using the same LC's mix for 3 years now. I've put just about everything that was living and it's excrement too in there at one time or another. What I do nowadays is after a run is add back some compost and a handful of pumice. Sometimes if I see a deficiency coming on I'll top dress this organic fert I got at the feed store that has stuff like kelp, various meals, etc. I just dump all the soil in a tub after runs, mix up and then redistribute. I don't no-till though I think that is the ideal way, it's just that this works great for me so I am keeping on.
S
SeaMaiden
I would like to share some more information with you that I think will help you understand why you're experiencing what you are, and it has everything to do with alkalinity (defined as buffering capacity, i.e. resistance to pH shift), and it is why I can get dolomitic lime to cause a change in both hardness (mineral content) and pH in a water column. And that is that if the water column is already high in carbonates, you're going to have a HELL of a time shifting pH in any direction, most especially down.
So I'm going to bet that the water source you're using is in fact already high in carbonates (aka carbonate hardness, which is typically caused by high levels of CaCO3 and MgCO3, which are calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate, respectively) if not total general hardness. If so, there will always be difficulties getting the pH to shift *down* and stay there. Dolomite lime is comprised mainly of calcium magnesium carbonate, and it's that CO3 molecule that keeps a water column alkaline.
Now, if you were to switch to very soft (read: little to no mineral content, especially carbonates) water, which has little resistance to pH shift, in other words its pH is easily shifted up and down, I bet you wouldn't have the rise in pH you're observing.
If you were to then take a sample of this very soft, slightly acidic (or more acidic, the more acidic the quicker the action) and add some dolomite lime to it, agitate for several minutes then test, you'll see the numbers change significantly. If you test for hardness you'll see it come up, along with the pH most often.
So, if the water is well-buffered you're going to have a hell of a time keeping the pH where *you* want it instead of where the water "wants" it.
This is what VG is outlining--shift the pH of the water column and that will make the P more available because it will be at least slightly dissolved into the water column, just as I am asserting occurs with dolomite lime.
I speak from decades of experience with ornamental aquatics, freshwater, saltwater and brackish organisms. It's also a subject I've written about rather extensively. Try the tests I suggested to you in that other thread, I think you'll be quite surprised.
In the meantime, Eliot Coleman instructs organic gardeners to make applications of soft rock phosphate quadrannually (every four years). He turns as much leftover plant material back into the soil as he can, and he does this specifically so that he can return the nutrients (inputs) back where he needs and wants them. The New Organic Grower is the book, it's directed at market gardeners.
IIRC, I do recall reading some papers that discussed soil availability rates in relation to the source of phosphate itself. I also recall reading an abstract that suggested that Gaia Glacial Rock Dust isn't so available and may in fact be a useless addition to the regiment, AFTER I bought a 50lb bag.
I haven't grown in pots in two years now, but will likely be forced to as my county has seriously impinged on outdoor cultivation and the numbers allowed won't leave me with a sufficient supply of cannabis to last until the next harvest. I always re-use the soil because I'm CHEAP (but not as cheap as jaykush, that man's got a talent for freebies that I envy). I haven't ever had a problem, especially since going all-organic.
some real quality replies up in here... thank you people... organic soil is as always my favorite hood!
^^^ Now that gives me something to consider. I have a shallow well. Less than 50 feet deep. Most of my neighbors have deep wells hundreds of feet deep. They all have bad water. Lots of minerals like iron. I've never had my well water tested although I tested the pH. Dead on 7.0.
But our humidifier never shows any calcium buildup. We rarely have to replace the filter.
Well water test is $50. Doubt if I ever get it tested.
Burn1
But our humidifier never shows any calcium buildup. We rarely have to replace the filter.
Well water test is $50. Doubt if I ever get it tested.
Burn1
