An experiment in time... no veg period

Ringodoggie · Apr 11, 2019

I am preparing to move and I need to shut down all my grow stuff so I can sell my house. I wanted to get one last crop in but I really didn't have the time for a full grow. So, I skipped the veg period and went straight to flowering at 12/12.

I took clones from 2 mothers I had. A Barney's Farm Red Dragon and a Hazeman Seeds Triple XXX. I cloned them for about 10 days at 18/6 to allow a little time to root. So, I guess, I did allow a short veg period vs zero veg period but I did not go with the normal 6 to 8 week veg period that I usually do. Then, I put the right into #3 nursery pots and went to 12/12. I had about 14 Triple XXX that went under my 1000w HPS. 12 of the Red Dragon and 4 Triple XXX went under 14 T5's and a cheapo blurple Mars LED.

We are about half way done at 5 weeks and I am pleasantly surprised. Look like sawed off colas with the popcorn missing. LOL

I usually harvest about a pound to pound and a half with this setup. I'll see what I get this time.

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pop_rocks · Apr 11, 2019

the plants look really nice man
about how big was the rootball of your clones when you went into the #3s?
i wonder how big the root will be in the finished plants?
about how much larger would you guess the tops would have been if you let them veg according to your usual schedule?
im seeing that classic bud on a stick shape with little side branching; really easy to trim
i used to run a northern lights strain like this, cuts straight to 12/12 and would average about .5oz a stick in a hydro set up but some of those plants in the back are looking pretty fat already
how long do you let these strains usually go?

aridbud · Apr 11, 2019

pop_rocks said:
the plants look really nice man
about how big was the rootball of your clones when you went into the #3s?
i wonder how big the root will be in the finished plants?
about how much larger would you guess the tops would have been if you let them veg according to your usual schedule?
im seeing that classic bud on a stick shape with little side branching; really easy to trim
i used to run a northern lights strain like this, cuts straight to 12/12 and would average about .5oz a stick in a hydro set up but some of those plants in the back are looking pretty fat already
how long do you let these strains usually go?

Agree w/ p_rocks- looks good! Indoors we do 12/12 for our photoperiods, primarily seed production.

They won't be pounds, but it all adds up!

Ringodoggie · Apr 11, 2019

Thanks, guys.

RE: the root balls, I clone in 16 oz. Solo cups and after 2 weeks the roots were all completely wrapped around the bottom of each cup and some had roots sticking out of the bottom hole. Pretty solid root foundation.

On that note, I have always found 18/6 to provide a much better root foundation for clones than 24/0. After about 2 or 3 weeks, I usually change to 24/0 and run another 6 to 7 weeks.

For the past 40 years or so, I always did a perpetual grow so the incoming plants had to veg as long as it took for the previous crop to finish flowering before the veg crop could go into the flowering room [did that make sense? LOL]. Since my flowering room is only 4x4, sometimes it really made for overcrowding. If I had a long finish sativa going, I may have to veg for 9 or 10 weeks. That makes for a monster once it goes 12/12 and starts to stretch.

This time, I have both rooms in flower at the same time (since it is my last grow).

Here are a couple shots. The first 2 are previous grows that were veg'd for 8 weeks (my norm). The last shot is my current grow. So, there is DEFINITELY going to be a difference in yield. However, the colas are coming in so well, I don't think the tops are going to suffer from no veg period. Rather, I will loose the 6 or 8 ounces I usually get in popcorn.

The 4 plants in the back of the previous shots are the Triple XXX. In front is the Red Dragon. I don't usually mix strains but this is an odd grow for me.

The third shot below is my regular 1000w HPS flower room and is all Triple XXX. I found it a bit strange that the plants under the 1000w HPS stretched way more than the plants under the T5's and LED. Way more.

The 3 short ones you see started out under T5 and then moved to the HPS. That's why those 3 are shorter (less stretch) than all the others.

One of the more unusually grows for me. LOL

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Lyfespan · Apr 11, 2019

i think someone on here has done seed to flower with no veg time?

Ringodoggie · Apr 11, 2019

I'm sure it's been done many times. I was just surprised at how nice the colas were coming along.

Would it work with seeds? Wouldn't a plant grown from seed have to mature before it would flower (unlike clones that are already mature)?

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Lyfespan · Apr 11, 2019

Ringodoggie said:
I'm sure it's been done many times. I was just surprised at how nice the colas were coming along.

Would it work with seeds? Wouldn't a plant grown from seed have to mature before it would flower (unlike clones that are already mature)?

.

we shall see, just tossed 2 seeds in cups into flower :tiphat:

Ringodoggie · Apr 11, 2019

Awesome, keep us informed.

f-e · Apr 12, 2019

I always presumed Sat's flowered longer, because they grow in 12/12 regions. Though it's only a fleeting thought.

Certainly some seeds are happier to go straight 12/12 than others. With some just being smaller, as you would expect. But some will finish in their usual 8 weeks, having spent some of that time refusing flower. So you get poor development.

Interestingly, cuttings have the genetic age of there parents, yet also like a veg period in some cases. Things like the white strains seem happy to grow as a bud in a pot. Yet the more Sat influenced strains like to get some size about them. Which is somewhat contradictory to what happens from seed.

This is all just my own findings. So I'm hoping to take away something from this thread myself. But the above is what I have seen.

Ringodoggie · Apr 12, 2019

In my case, the white x white x white (XXX) stretched the most (the 4 plants in the back in the first pic). And the Pakistan Kush x Brazilian Sativa ( Red Dragon) is growing like a typical Indica.

That's the opposite of what I would expect. I would expect more like what you described. Plus, I am going by the breeder's description of Sativa and Indica.

I am going to post 2 pics just so I can date them. they are from stationary cameras from the Raspberry Pi in each room. It will make it easy to compare in a few weeks when they are done.

pumpkinpie eyes · Apr 12, 2019

13/11 works fer sativa.

hush · Apr 12, 2019

Ringodoggie said:
I'm sure it's been done many times. I was just surprised at how nice the colas were coming along.

Would it work with seeds? Wouldn't a plant grown from seed have to mature before it would flower (unlike clones that are already mature)?

.

I did a 12/12 from seed grow out before. It was fairly productive. I didn't actually flip to 12/12 until about 2 weeks from the seeds cracking, but that's essentially the same thing. Here they were on the night before the flip, at about 2 weeks old:

...And here they were at around 9 weeks of flowering:

f-e · Apr 18, 2019

pumpkinpie eyes said:
13/11 works fer sativa.

I have been up to 13 with many things. It gives you a bit longer. At 14 it wasn't good for some things, but others didn't mind. I don't do it anymore, but looking back it could of been the more sativa like plants that were more forgiving. I guess some never actually see 12/12 naturally. As the sun is bigger than us, just over half the planet is lit. Add in a big hill, and the fact that indirect light might still be enough to keep them awake. I don't know the answer, but it's not 12 hours sleep.

If plants have been selected by a breeder that used 12/12 then it might be best to stick with that. It certainly wouldn't hurt. But a bit more light-hours while packing it on dosn't hurt either

troutman · Apr 18, 2019

Going 12/12 from the start allows a person to grow plants that are like a Sea of Green with minimal branching.

Ringodoggie · Apr 20, 2019

Short update: About 1 week before harvest. The plants have not really grown much in the pics. The colas fattened up a little and the popcorn picked up a lot of weight.

It's starting to frost up nicely with the lower buds actually frosting more and sooner than the colas. This is pretty typical for me.

I had a little pH problem and it got out of hand before I caught it so I have some crunchy, brown leaves here and there. Some plants were affected and some were not. The Red Dragon was affected way more than the Triple XXX.

If I remember, I'll take a couple shots right before harvest. Hoping for about a pound from each room. Maybe a little less.

It's hard to get decent pics from HPS and blurple lighting but that last pic has some nice purps and oranges in it.

End of week 7. My last harvest of these strains was at 8 weeks.

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Ringodoggie · May 4, 2019

Well, I went into the room and trimmed a couple buds to check them for ripeness.... then I trimmed a couple more..... oops, forgot to take the pictures. LOL Before I remembered the pics I was half done harvesting. I did get some pics of the harvest. I love my drying tent. A perfect 55 - 60% for the entire time. It is so easy to control temp and humidity inside a tent. I use a small humidifier/dehumidifier as required and I leave them in there from 1 to 2 weeks. Then, into jars.

Cutting the veg time did not make the colas any smaller. In fact, these colas are considerably larger than the last crop of the same strain that was veg'd for 2 months. What did suffer in yield was all the popcorn I usually get from the lower branches. I did get a couple trays from the few branches but I usually fill that 6 tier drying rack with smaller buds and popcorn. I only got 2 layers this time. And, once again, the secondary buds were larger than the secondary buds in previous crops veg'd for 2 months.

I will definitely try this again. I am curious as to my total yield when dry. I consistently get 16 to 22 ounces per crop from this room. I'll be curious to see what this adds up to.

That pH problem I has wiped out my fan leaves. Brown and crunchy. The buds look mostly unaffected.

Kind of sad. This will be my last crop in this room. I have been growing in this room almost non-stop for 35 years. Finally got it all tweaked in and now I have to tear it out to sell the house. LOL

Here are a couple pics. The Red Dragon in the new tent is not quite ready yet. Just a few more days. It is just now finishing that 'second flowering' they go through right before ripening.

Funny, I barely used a scope to look at the trics when I harvested. Been so long, I could tell when they were ripe from the way the room smelled and felt. Gonna miss this room.

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Hookahhead · May 5, 2019

Do you have any pics of the rootball? I'm curious to know how much they grew.

Sign · May 5, 2019

12/12 from seed is an odd duck. It's totally strain dependent as I found with RSC mis. Around the end of November I decided to toss a few seeds in when I started flowering another strain. They grew and grew. The males showed themselves about a month later. The females shortly thereafter.

However the stretch came on hard. Even though I had preflowers they just kept growing and growing at about 5'and very bushy one finally stopped the stretch and started stacking flowers. I chopped the rest as there were room issues by now and they had been growing for about 4 months already. The one remaining girl is huge, I bent her over to keep her at about 6 feet final height and the side branches filled in nicely. I'd guess she has another month before harvest.

This was totally not what I had intended to happen and not something that I'd had happen in my previous attempts either with 12/12. It's not light leaks or anything like that as the other plants all did great and were harvested. Only thing I can think of is this particular strain just doesn't do well with 12/12 from seed.

Well I'm going to finish it but I'm not going to try it with this one again, ever. All said by the time it's done will have been around 6 or 7 months. It better be amazing. There is going to be a lot of it too. If this 1 particular plant didn't smell so good I'd have chopped it months ago.

So that's about the 12/12 from seed comment above, to the op your sea of clones looks amazing.

gladysvjubb · May 5, 2019

Read this, it will help you out. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=51760

Ringodoggie · May 5, 2019

Hookahhead said:
Do you have any pics of the rootball? I'm curious to know how much they grew.

Here are shots of 2 of the root balls. This is pretty typical of what I normally get in my #3 nursery pots. Maybe a little bigger but not by much.

My standard MO is to clone in 20 oz solo cups for 3 to 4 weeks, then to a #1 nursery pot for about a month. After 2 months of clone and veg, they go into a #3 pot and then directly to 12/12. Since most of the effort is in flowering at that point, the root ball doesn't grow much more than what developed in the #1 pot. The remaining dirt is actually more for moisture control that root growth.

I stuck my foot in the picture to provide a size comparison.

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