How do i yield 1-3lbs a plant indoors ?

zoo said:

Said like a true LED salesman

I see a lot of big numbers being toted, but rarely see impressive canopy pics from LED's with dense buds all the way from top to bottom. Unless you can enlighten me.

But that being said, I do beleive LED's are the future. But there is a looong way to go.

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I'm not just a sales person, I'm also the engineer behind our products, did all the R&D on their development, and have published most of research to the web so DIY guys and other companies can better their own builds.

This morning "Skotty" came into the grow journals thread in my signature and posted up a few of his own photos using our lights. He is perhaps one of (if not) the best grower who has ever posted online using our products. Here are his results achieved 6-8 years ago with our products:



Also the numbers I mentioned came from grow tests that were run right here on ICMag by fellow members. We had 3 or 4 running LED vs HID side by sides almost all at the same time, and all growers got at least double the grams per watt with our products.

Biologist said:

What do you think about this quote from Bugbee's great paper on this subject?

Economic Analysis of Greenhouse Lighting: Light Emitting Diodes vs. High Intensity Discharge Fixtures
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

The LED fixtures in that paper have generally lower photon efficiency than the DE HPS fixtures.

I understand CREE has some newer units that have higher photon efficiency but you don't use those in your product do you?

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I've actually attended a lecture where Bugbee was giving a presentation, and throughout nearly his entire presentation I stood in the back contradicting almost everything he said, presenting information that was newer than his and showing that while he is very respected in his field, he is also very misinformed. I wound up supplementing the majority of the lecture that day, which he wasn't too happy about - but I couldn't let him preach misinformation to a room full of people. At the end most of the people in attendance came and obtained literature from me at the end. Bugbee didn't like me much then and likely still doesn't to this day. And yet I still follow his research and that of countless other PhD's around the world.

We started University testing back in late 2009, early 2010 on the difference in spectrum between our LEDs and full spectrum white light. Despite both receiving an even amount of light (300-400umol), our lettuce grew faster with a 43% higher yield at the end of the test. This was based on spectrum alone. The test was repeated to ensure accuracy of results. It was also our G2 spectrum (G4 is a lot more efficient).

Numerous tests here on ICMag show some of our 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation products beating HID by double the grams per watt with Cannabis - and yet in these studies the HID had far more average PAR output and a far more even spread of intensity over the covered area. And yet we did double the yield (or more) per watt.

It is scientifically known that orange (600-630) is absorbed far less readily than blue light (420-480nm) by Chlorophyll. Every single spectral absorption or sensitivity curve demonstrates this. Why Bugbee disregards this I couldn't tell you, but it doesn't support his narrative is the most likely reason.

If what Bugbee says is true, we would have lost our side-by-sides by a significant margin. But we didn't and never have. They have been repeated by numerous individuals and new growers on IC will be repeating them again for your viewing pleasure. Despite HID having the magical orange wavelength he loves, higher PAR and a more even spread, we've always beaten it by at least double the yield per watt. Studies on IC disprove his opinion, as do many University studies that have happened over the past 5 years.

Cree uses the exact same 660nm chip we do - it's made by Epistar. So whatever their efficiency is, ours is greater because our LED package has better optical and thermal efficiency than their miniaturized package.

From KC Fletcher at CSA Group (Light testing facility):

"The illumination industry is often able to boil efficiency down to one metric (luminous efficacy) easily because the photopic response of the human eye is fairly consistent for most people. The human response is essentially a bell curve with only one spectral peak. This has been well-studied over the last century and is widely accepted in the industry.

Plants, on the other hand, have multiple absorption targets and those targets may vary from species to species. Photon efficiency alone is not a sufficient characterization of how well a horticulture lighting product will perform when applied to a certain plant. For example, someone could make a product which has only red LEDs (a wavelength where photons are cheap in terms of energy requirements to produce them) and get a great efficiency value. But this product would not necessarily be good for plant growth.

Photon efficiency is certainly useful to know but only when paired with other performance metrics such as Spectral Quantum Distribution (SQD), near-field and/or far-field spatial Photon Flux Density (PFD) distribution, lifetime projections / performance degradation, etc.

KC Fletcher, Operations Manager, CSA Group. 2019. Used with permission."

Wattage to cover the large plant is the only concern. Not thectupe of light. Though de greenhouse fixtures will yield more if you have the ceiling height.

This led over hps or mh is ridiculous.

HydroGrowLeds said:

I'm not just a sales person, I'm also the engineer behind our products, did all the R&D on their development, and have published most of research to the web so DIY guys and other companies can better their own builds.

This morning "Skotty" came into the grow journals thread in my signature and posted up a few of his own photos using our lights. He is perhaps one of (if not) the best grower who has ever posted online using our products. Here are his results achieved 6-8 years ago with our products:

View ImageView Image

Also the numbers I mentioned came from grow tests that were run right here on ICMag by fellow members. We had 3 or 4 running LED vs HID side by sides almost all at the same time, and all growers got at least double the grams per watt with our products.

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What strain is that pictured?

Show me an og or chem grown under your led lights.

I can get salmon creek big bud to do that under plain old metal halide with a piss poor reflector.

That's a decent looking plant yeah but how much light was used on it?


Claiming DOUBLE the yield is pretty outrageous and why these LED salesman cannot be taken seriously


So a 600w yields 17-25oz 3-4x3-4ft area. are you telling me a 600w LED will yield 34-50oz in that same space?



Most of the LED tests are from LED salesman or people that get free lights. So final yields and numbers are not reliable.

zoo said:

That's a decent looking plant yeah but how much light was used on it?

Claiming DOUBLE the yield is pretty outrageous and why these LED salesman cannot be taken seriously

So a 600w yields 17-25oz 3-4x3-4ft area. are you telling me a 600w LED will yield 34-50oz in that same space?

Most of the LED tests are from LED salesman or people that get free lights. So final yields and numbers are not reliable.

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There is a link in my signature with about 20 completed grow journals on ICMag. The growers were chosen via the same method I use now: announce a giveaway and let forum members vote on who they want to see do what test.

ICMag voted on who they wanted (much like what is happening now in our forum) and then I sent out panels to those testers. They all ran their tests and published their journals to ICMag. They all got at least double the GPW using our LEDs compared to their HIDs. These are not claims, this is fact reported by the growers themselves. This isn't a sales pitch, it's a history lesson. People told us that our lights couldn't beat HID, so we gave them to HID growers who were skeptical of our technology and let them prove what our lights could or could not do. After that we made claims based on their results which were duplicated among multiple growers, then backed up those claims with a guarantee. Now we're giving more lights away for another round of side-by-sides to show that we still outperform all other grow lights.

The buds in that image are AutoMazaar I believe, or it could be ThinkDifferent. Seymour Buds did the growing, and he goes by "Skotty" here on ICMag, so he's the one to ask if you want an exact answer to your questions. He set a world record with our light many years ago, then broke it about a year after that. He's a badass grower.

I am not doubting your skills Wendall, nor was posting those images meant to serve as a competition about who's buds are bigger, I was simply responsding to zoo's request for pictures of buds that go from top to bottom of a plant. Skotty had posted those earlier today to one of our threads, so I thought they were great images to share because it comes from a fellow ICMag member. And well, some people think LED can't grow plants like that, but testing would demonstrate otherwise.

Ok I went through the links in your sig and the threads that are a comparison to hps are a decade old and compare led to 250-400 watt HPS. Can you post some links that are current that compare a 600-1000 HPS to LED that show the led outperforming the HPS by double? Also anything from recent times?

Dutch passion autos are designed to yield. Big massive fluffy buds that are completely useless to a seasoned smoker. Mr. Ganjamoto yielded over a pound on one bunk auto ultimate on plasma 1k. I would love to see the LED yield two pounds, even if it is with a hay Auto.

Some tests with your LED vs. a modern HPS or cmh with a desirable strain would say a lot more than a sales pitch with ten year old evidence.

Lester Beans said:

Ok I went through the links in your sig and the threads that are a comparison to hps are a decade old and compare led to 250-400 watt HPS. Can you post some links that are current that compare a 600-1000 HPS to LED that show the led outperforming the HPS by double? Also anything from recent times?

Dutch passion autos are designed to yield. Big massive fluffy buds that are completely useless to a seasoned smoker. Mr. Ganjamoto yielded over a pound on one bunk auto ultimate on plasma 1k. I would love to see the LED yield two pounds, even if it is with a hay Auto.

Some tests with your LED vs. a modern HPS or cmh with a desirable strain would say a lot more than a sales pitch with ten year old evidence.

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There is a video from Cannabis Training University in 2015 where our 336X was put up against a double bulb 1200W HPS. We did 1.5X the yield of the plants in that test group despite using about 70% less watts, resulting in 4x the GPW. It doesn't matter how many times our lights are compared - the result is always the same: we win by a significant margin.

What strikes me odd is people's aversion to a test that is 8 or 9 years old. Regardless of age, the test still happened and the results were what they were with our older technology. Our technology has only become more powerful with time, so what difference would new tests make? The newer the test the bigger the difference in yield, and the even more skeptical many of you become because you just don't think there could possibly be that much difference from one light to the next...

See the problem with most growers is their inability to believe the results of other growers, even if those growers are respected members of their own community. We've known this for years. It doesn't matter if I have 100 side by sides and win in all of them, people are still going to choose not to believe them for whatever reason. And "modern HPS" was a good joke lol. There is absolutely nothing modern about HPS - it's technology from the 60's/70's that's been recycled for decades with tiny enhancements.

But this is precisely why we have a 120 day money-back trial on our lights. Wanna be skeptical of the results? That's fine. So test them for yourself and if you don't get the same or better, return them for a full refund. It's a pretty simple offer that I don't see competitors making. Their sales pitch is often "just take our word for it with no returns if you're not happy". We even have 25% off right now if you run a grow journal, and you get that discount for life. There has never been a better time to try our product for yourself risk-free.

As far as modern HPS I was refering to dual bulb.

I just want to know how many led watts does one need to equal the coverage of a 1k HPS?

Do you have one lamp that does that?

Do you have a journal or link that is a direct side by side with a 1k HPS?

I'm not hating on led, in fact I am looking forward to the day they work like a 1k and don't cost min 5 times as much.

You have to understand that if I am going to try your light I need more than claims. I don't need to try it and have to send it back. I want to know it works before I buy it.

So what light or lights do you sell that are a replacement for a 1k hid light?

Lester Beans said:

As far as modern HPS I was refering to dual bulb.

I just want to know how many led watts does one need to equal the coverage of a 1k HPS?

Do you have one lamp that does that?

Do you have a journal or link that is a direct side by side with a 1k HPS?

I'm not hating on led, in fact I am looking forward to the day they work like a 1k and don't cost min 5 times as much.

You have to understand that if I am going to try your light I need more than claims. I don't need to try it and have to send it back. I want to know it works before I buy it.

So what light or lights do you sell that are a replacement for a 1k hid light?

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The 336X is a direct 1000W replacement covering a maximum of a 4' x 4' area. It uses about 560W of power from the wall and did 1.5X the yield of a 1200W HPS (not sure why you need a 1000W specifically). If you want to ask someone about how our lights work, just talk to Seymour Buds (Skotty). He's been using them for 8 years and is still using one of the original fixtures he got back then. He didn't set world records with them because they don't perform as advertised lol...

We have less than 1% of customers return lights. Most often if they do a return, it's an exchange for a larger, more powerful model after they finish their first grow test. The guarantee is there for people on the fence, because I know once you have 2 weeks of experience with our lights you're not going to want to send them back. But getting people to try a product these days can be rather ridiculous. You've been lied to by countless other LED manufacturers and as a result won't trust the original who has lasted 10 years in an industry where most companies fail within 2-4 years. I wouldn't be here today if our lights didn't work exactly as claimed, and they've been working that way for a decade now which our grow tests prove. Isn't it amazing that 10 years after we destroy HID we are still going through the same crap? "Post a new grow test, do this light, do that light, I don't believer it". It's pretty ridiculous from our standpoint. 10 years of dominance and people still question our products like we're some brand new company without anything to show for ourselves.

Now a 1000W HPS can cover a 5x5 or 6x6, it just depends on what crop you're growing, but most with Cannabis keep it within a 4x4. So that's what our 336X does. I am developing a new light at the moment that should be able to provide equal or greater coverage than HID at near identical PAR levels, using just over half the watts. The light should also be priced a decent amount below our current offering, bridging the gap between HID and LED (although frankly it's a pipe dream to think LEDs will be the same cost or cheaper even within the next decade).

Here is the 1200W HPS vs 336X Grow Test from 2015, from a grower with over 1 million followers on social media:

[youtubeif]Hz8F2rBTcv4[/youtubeif]

I'm still a bit skeptical about those numbers, would want to see some of the coming tests because 4x gpw of hps sounds like bad growing on one side.
Time will show a better picture.

Cheers

Grafting 2-3 cuts together into one rw cube lots of topping and vegging 8 weeks. 1-2 lbs

Mr.LED the more you type the more you seem like a bullshitter


now you're claiming an LED outperformed a HPS by 4x


laughable really, and exactly why LED's are not taken seriously yet.

So defensive when I'm just asking for clear answers. Which you provided thank you.

I read bout the 336x. The price is staggering.

And just some advice, if you know led companies have been lying for years then you must expect this skepticism, especially with what you are claiming. No need to be a dick. And as far as dominance for a decade, well I just heard about you yesterday so forgive me if I'm not familiar with your products, tests, etc. Hence why I asked.

Have a toasty day!

zoo said:

Mr.LED the more you type the more you seem like a bullshitter

now you're claiming an LED outperformed a HPS by 4x

laughable really, and exactly why LED's are not taken seriously yet.

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I am reporting the results of a grow test performed by a group that has more than 1 million followers on social media. Not a claim - it's fact and the video is right there for you to view. Not sure why you would insinuate that they would somehow lie or alter the results to their audience, considering it would hurt their own reputation which is far larger than any single grower on any forum (most of you have 5-20 followers, not 1 million +).

So no it's not a claim, it's a report of a historical grow test. If you want to be ignorant and choose not to believe it, that's fine. But it was done with a time lapse camera and your response further proves that 100 grow test showing the same results would still result in you calling "bullshit". But like everyone else who behaves like you do, you have the opportunity to test the product risk-free and are choosing instead to continue to belittle a product you have no experience with, while basically calling everyone who has ever grown with them a liar who falsified their results. That's what I call bullshit.

But see I back up my words with grow tests and a 120-day money back guarantee. You back up your words with...? More words and excuses. But hey Seymour Buds must be lying too right? Or how about Dutch Passion seed company when they issued 2 world records to him using our lights? Or how about the mods on this very forum who ran their own grow tests? I guess the whole industry is bullshit in your eyes and every grower in it but you. Being a skeptic is healthy, being ignorant only hurts you.

zoo said:

Mr.LED the more you type the more you seem like a bullshitter


now you're claiming an LED outperformed a HPS by 4x


laughable really, and exactly why LED's are not taken seriously yet.

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This.

The twisting of facts is very strong in everything that huckster types. Thinks he's going to make millions for being a sleazy salesman...

prune said:

This.

The twisting of facts is very strong in everything that huckster types. Thinks he's going to make millions for being a sleazy salesman...

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I've already made millions because our lights do exactly what they are advertised to do. But sure, keep spouting nonsense rather than testing them for yourself. 120 day risk-free trial where you have absolutely nothing to lose, but you'e too afraid to do it because your ego is too fragile to be proven wrong. I wouldn't be around after a decade when most LED companies fail in 2-4 years, if my product didn't do exactly what it's advertised to, and I didn't support my customers. But keep calling your fellow members on ICMag liars and cheats - it certainly makes you look great!

It's just getting worse by the minute now he's using Dutch Passion as a marker of reliability and truthfulness


You can easily pay people and give them free lights and get them to claim they got 2 GPW. Lying is rife in the cannabis industry and anything can be bought. I can just tell by the way you shill your products that you are a sneaky snake oil salesman


& I bet if someone tried to return a light after 100 days you'd probably tell them to get fucked, nice little gimmick though


Also before this thread I had never heard of your lights, so your company is not that big and if it was you wouldn't be posting like this on forums.

Sorry OP looks like your thread has been taken over by others in a pissing contest.

Get to 30 post so I can pm you. I'll tell you exactly what all you need to know.