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Vote No to to legalization before it is too late, or is it already?

S

Scott64a

LOL the beautiful silver lining here is that with legal recreational use, people can grow it, too.

Cannabis is far easier to grow than say, tobacco... and that's why you don't see anyone growing their own tobacco to smoke.

Weed?

hahaha easy.

So many ppl are growing it now that I'm sure if anyone asks around, someone will GIVE them some.
The currently lucrative legal market won't be able to compete if they keep gouging.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
For too long, our conversation about marijuana has centered on a tired, old idea that says we either have to lock people up for smoking pot or “legalize it.” The former can ruin lives over one joint. The latter would make marijuana the next tobacco industry. Neither is in the interest of public health and safety. We don’t have to legalize (and commercialize) marijuana – but we don’t need a “War on Drugs” approach either. That’s where Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM) comes in.
SAM promotes science-driven, evidence-based reforms that discourage use while avoiding criminal penalties. There are a wide array of smart-on-crime alternatives that remove criminal penalties for smoking marijuana including drug courts, pre-trial diversion programs, and probation reform. Communities are healthier and safer when these reforms are coupled with prevention and treatment programs.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
It's time to wake up, and quit wishing and hoping. Az marijuana laws will never favor the home grower or private purchaser.

The current setup in place assures it will never happen. The DHS will not let the Medical program vanish without replacing it something to fatten their pockets even more. Has anyone wondered why the prices of garbage quality "medicine" have been so high in AZ? Are dispensaries like Trumed, still retailing $17 grams (plus charging the customer their business transaction fees) building new locations, paying their bud tenders more? They've paid off everything, can outright buy a dozen buildings with their income. Where is that non-profit money going?

Its harder to take from these people once they already have it. Name one industry whos players are happy with zero or god forbid negative annual growth. There are none. This includes the corrupt state agencies taking payments from these dispensaries fo keep things favorable to them, the corporations.

Do you expect adhesive backed tax stamps to be given out for free? Just stick them on your baggy and you're good to go? No. Legalization is regulation, the amount of money that goes towards tax enforcement under corporate pinned legalization measures insures that untaxed weed becomes a bigger target than it is now. The Mmj database is nothing more than the forerunner to the tax tracking database. People have already been cited for possession of Cannabis, where the database shows zero taxed purchase. Its the whole reason for the database. The 2.5 oz limit is calculated on sale vs resale probability: getting the most pot sold at retail with the smallest amount resold privately.

Weed isn't legal under corporate legalization. Buying taxed weed is legal under corporate legalization. Its not legal to possess, without a tax stamp. Its not legal to grow, without a grow license. Its not legal to sell without a sales permit. Selling it is just as if not more criminal than it is now.. Unless you want to get get involved in licensing? Win the dispensary lotto? Whatever "riff-raff" sorting measures are applied to keep YOU AND ME out of the weed game? It will NEVER be in the individuals favor. I dont care what show vote is put forward. I stopped believing the legitimacy of ballots a long time ago. Its all just a rigged game, a show. Just like all politics. The corporations get what they want, no matter how they have to pull it off.

----------------------

Between the dates of 7/1/16 & 1/18/17 AZDHS had 5.5million in MMJ program expenses. This money comes from MMJ cards,and dispensary licenses, no where else. Itemization reveals numbers such as:

1.6million to U of A, supporting research/training programs for EMS, First Responder, and Marijuana Poison control. (A Google search could provide the same info needed for Marijuana poisoning!)

150k for temporary employment (??)

50k for "advertising" (advertising what? Job listings filled by imaginary people?)

650k to legal teams (are they getting sued on the regular or what?)

750k for computer consulting services (this program has been on its feet for years! What consulting takes place this far in?)

250k indirect cost transfer (N/A ascribed)

100k to Phoenix (small bribe to single office to reject all requests to ban dispensaries/grows?)

100k to Tuscon (another periodic bribe to allow these dispensaries when the conservative
population wants them out of their neighborhoods?)

22k in state travel. (to what events? Meetings with dispensary owners?)

15k for "edibles" (ok, so they are spending your taxes to get high on their day trips?! Not even hiding it!)


The bulk of the rest is NOT for employment, rather it is comprised of data analysis along the lines of database information conversion, seemingly unrelated to the purchase tracking systems. What other systems are their? Why would the DHS nees geographical/hydrology datas?

------------------

Keep in mind there is ZERO regulation against the dispensaries grow facilities. They can have as many as they want, wherever they want them, as long as the bribes have been paid. They can use whatever pesticides and additives they desire, in any amount. They are supposedly required to disclose, but that is a joke. There is no testing, because in the words of the former director "It would raise prices too much". This is a market where prices have nearly cut in half overnight, after the review sites became flooded with complains, once people saw how much more AZ was paying than other states. I doubt the dispensaries were ever suffering so hard, with 20 dollar grams and the lowest taxes of any MMJ program, that they could not implement testing. (+25-50 cents a gram would have covered it) You will NEVER take this freedom from these producers. Money and corruption proclaims it.
No vote, no lobby, nothing will take from the monopolies free reign.


The entire marijuana program in AZ is and always will be a corrupt fraud. Its not only AZ. All the states are getting ideas from each others programs, its all just a test for corporate interests to see the best way to pull the scam off nationwide, the politicians just need their pockets padded along the way.

Do you think you'll ever be able to afford licencing for private home growing, and be able to grow enough to profit, enough to feed yourself and pay the fees at the same time? Don't kid yourself. You'll have to sell out to Phillip Morris,, and smuggle out dumpsterweed. Get fired for stealing seeds and narced out by your employer. I say PhillipMorris, referring to whoever the green equivalent will be as these monopoly entities consolidate under the same umbrella. Dont believe it?

Harvest dispensaries, the worst bud I've ever seen, (and only dispensary Ive walked out of not even curious enough to make a purchase) owns 7% of the "lottery" issued dispensary/grow licenses in AZ. SEVEN PERCENT. These entities will continue to consolidate through the various loopholes offered to them by outside management (a business expense, a loophole itself for the dispensaries to funnel money out of the current non-profit program)

These conglomos are not going to give up their pie. You cant even have a slice. You dont even get crumbs. You just get to smell it from the window, and it all smells like shit to me!

Are you sure legalization is the answer? Either way, think before you vote, cause that just makes good sense.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
Michigan must vote no, if legalization is not being written with the little guy in mind.
Stand tall for your rights!
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
Medical Marijuana Businesses Are Beginning to Struggle in Legalized States

When a state passes recreational marijuana, people usually don't think about what will happen to the medical cannabis businesses already operating in the state. But wouldn't things just improve for them? Well, not exactly.

The Idaho Statesman recently published an article documenting how Oregon's medical marijuana industry is doing in the wake of recreational legalization. Unfortunately, the news isn't good. In Oregon, dispensaries are separated into two categories: Medical and recreational. Medical marijuana dispensaries can only sell to individuals with prescriptions for cannabis. But recreational dispensaries can sell to anyone, including those with prescriptions. So many people with cannabis prescriptions are simply going to recreational dispensaries, meaning medical only businesses are suffering as a result.

The newspaper noted that as a result, many medical marijuana dispensaries are either switching to recreational or going out of business. One county in Oregon had 31 medical dispensaries in April 2015. Today, that number is down to only two, and it's possible it will be zero next year.

Of the 21 medical dispensaries in Oregon right now, five have told the state they plan on switching to recreational next year. And only four of the 21 have indicated they plan to stay as a medical dispensary in 2018.

There's also been a decrease in the number of medical marijuana cardholders in Oregon as well. In 2015, the state had over 78,000 cardholders. That number is down to only 59,000 this year. So not only are customers going to different dispensaries, but the number of possible clients is dwindling as well.

Last spring, the Oregon state government gave dispensaries the opportunity to switch to recreational ones for 2018. And there's not really any reason not to. Medical dispensaries are allowed to sell more powerful strains of marijuana, but other than that they're virtually identical to recreational.

So it seems that if you're operating a medical dispensary in a state about to legalize recreationally, it's best that you move on. Because your business will probably suffer otherwise.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
I do not see boutique or small growers surviving in any of the western states. Most of the laws here in Oregon favor large growers, and in this state large consortiums have come in to buy up existing licenses. While they do offer small canopy grow licenses here, all licenses require the exact same very long list of requirements to be completed before you can get one. in California after 4 or so more years, the canopy limit of one acre will be lifted, and that will be an invitation to HUGE scale operation grows. Also in California, Medical weed is going away. Forget the existing system. Its will be gone. Its all going to be commercial rec weed. Oregon is considering doing the same and bailing on the OHA medical weed program.

The way I see it current legaliztion seems to favor big Cannabiz.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I will shit the bed if any other state votes in laws that favor individual growers rights to enter a legal market.
It’s not going to happen!
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
For too long, our conversation about marijuana has centered on a tired, old idea that says we either have to lock people up for smoking pot or “legalize it.” The former can ruin lives over one joint. The latter would make marijuana the next tobacco industry. Neither is in the interest of public health and safety. We don’t have to legalize (and commercialize) marijuana – but we don’t need a “War on Drugs” approach either. That’s where Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM) comes in.
SAM promotes science-driven, evidence-based reforms that discourage use while avoiding criminal penalties. There are a wide array of smart-on-crime alternatives that remove criminal penalties for smoking marijuana including drug courts, pre-trial diversion programs, and probation reform. Communities are healthier and safer when these reforms are coupled with prevention and treatment programs.

Kee-rist, Shag. Why should anybody have to put up with any of that for gettin' high on weed? Why the Hell should they have to put themselves into sketchy situations to score weed of dubious origin? Why should otherwise honest people need to lie to play the med card game?

I realize that a lot of members have a vested interest in the way it's been. I get that. OTOH, claiming that better serves public health & safety makes no sense to me.
 

XXX_710

Member
Shaggy, that's why I never left Illinois for a "legal" state. I don't trust them for a minute. Like most things from government, it's a scam. Remember, with the state, you are always dealing with a bully who will not hesitate to put a gun in your face, kidnap you, or take your money. They have nothing to offer peaceful cannabis users that want to be left alone to do as they wish.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
Here is someone that thinks it is too late!

Anyone who doesn't think that government will totally fuck this up is dreaming. All the licenses will go to the donor class. All the profits will go to Wall Street. All the tax money will be stolen by the politicians long before it goes towards whatever lie they told when they said the tax money would help "the children" , or"'the homeless", or whatever. And the people will still face prison because the black market will be attractive due to taxes and fixed costs throughout the cycle, from producer to consumer. And now you are competing directly against the government, a legal cartel, which will "own" the process. If you don't think they will be even worse once all the "rules" get written and implemented then you need to think harder.

And now so many growers are registered to authorities from the old medical program. If you are one of the old timers who said from the start he was just gonna stay underground to me you look pretty smart right now.

The model that worked was the medical with the generous rules you had. Maine had a very generous medical program that was easy to work with. They got fucked also and are starting the exact same route as Cal with legalization. Big money insiders start it off and the rules get written so only they can win. Sorry guys. It's a shame to turn something so simple into such a fucking mess.
 

HeriMarry

Member
Anything other than decriminalization is bad for marijuana. Whenever it is legal on a federal level, undocumented growers will receive the same jail sentences as "moonshiners". You get in bed with the government(taxes,...), there's no one to blame except yourselves. The current Marijuana Movement is a joke an has been for 20 years.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
The current Marijuana Movement is a joke an has been for 20 years.

It depends on the state and how they manage the detail.

re. California medical - I was a customer & service provider. Paperwork was one page - a 1099 to report income. Taxes paid, standard Calif. sales tax.

Oregon Recreational - Run for the Hills Child, Run for the Hills !
 
W

We Wait

Shaggy, that's why I never left Illinois for a "legal" state. I don't trust them for a minute. Like most things from government, it's a scam. Remember, with the state, you are always dealing with a bully who will not hesitate to put a gun in your face, kidnap you, or take your money. They have nothing to offer peaceful cannabis users that want to be left alone to do as they wish.

Are you talking about the police because that is exactly what they do and there is no resisting arrest or you get shot and that can be just for a little bit let alone a huge outside crop. They act like its a pile of meth. You can't grow a huge crop legally outside because the cops will shoot you and or kidnap and make you play a probation drug test game over marijuana. They would even do this to old people.

The cops have gone insane over marijuana for 45 years now and on the average man. They have always protected the tobacco industry. Now the tobacco industry has become the tobacco vapor industry and now they own the THC vapor industry that's in bed with the medical marijuana plan they have been pushing on the last few states using their lobbyist.

That's why they banned smoking and buds because they want you consuming their warehouse chemical laden slush tar bunk while they put the little guy away for buds because they are addicted to the drug war and are greedy pigs.
 
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FunkBomb

Power Armor rules
Veteran
The entire "movement" has been a smokescreen for more government control and money. Just look at the tax rates and you'll see. The real free market is the black market and the government does not like that.

-Funk
 
The scariest thing, is that we were always told "You cant patent a plant" while entities were seizing and patenting genetics via the DEA.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
I would have never supported legalization if I knew it’d end this way

You may have noticed many well known cannabis activists coming out of the wood work to protest “legalization”. People like Marc and Jodie Emery who supported I-502, which is very similar to the legislation that they are protesting now in Canada.

There are many activists still in Washington who are not seeing the fruits of “legalization” in that state also, and are still protesting this inane law.

These are not your typical “prohibitionists”, these are people who are in the industry and have been in the cannabis industry and on the front lines of activism for many decades.

I recently read this article in the HuffPost CA;


I Would Never Have Pushed For Legal Pot If I Knew It’d End This Way
Kathleen Wynne’s recent announcement declaring marijuana a provincial government monopoly is by far the worst thing to come out of the pot file.

If I thought Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's marijuana policy would result in an Ontario retail pot monopoly, I never would have helped his party pass their pro-legalization resolution in the first place.

I've written about my modest contribution to the elimination of pot prohibition before. To recap, in 2011 I was hired by the Liberal Party of Canada's upper brass to pressure their delegates to vote yes on a policy initiative that would push for legalization. For three months, my team approached marijuana advocacy groups and rallied their members to bombard LPC delegates via email, tweets and Facebook messages. The plan was to put enough pressure on delegates until they voted for a Canada who would shed its draconian views on weed. When we started, just 30 per cent of delegates were in our camp. After the votes were tallied at the Liberals' 2012 convention, more than 75 per cent of delegates voted yes.


TORONTO STAR VIA GETTY IMAGES
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, the Liberal Party leader at the time, with Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne.
I was pleased with the results. Not only did I fulfill my action plan as presented to the Liberal Party, but on a deeper level I felt like I was a part of something truly revolutionary. Ever since I read the CD insert of my Cypress Hill CD as a young teenager I knew our pot laws were unfair, archaic and hypocritical. It was rewarding to help push down the first domino in legalization as an adult, especially from within a national party and long before Justin Trudeau was leader.

Trudeau was not pro-marijuana in 2012, despite his admission that he smoked weed as a sitting MP. In my interview with him at that same convention, Trudeau said of legalization, "I don't know if it's entirely consistent with the kind of society we're trying to build." So, at best, we had convinced Liberal delegates to come on board, but Trudeau was still on the fence. My piece last year outlined Trudeau's hypocrisy on weed. Specifically, his decision to not decriminalize pot while his government worked out the kinks on how legalization would look. I called it the Great Pot Hypocrisy because he had once cited the pending possession charges against his late brother, Michel, who was busted with a small amount of weed after a traffic accident. He said he did not believe his brother should have faced a possible criminal record for such a benign offence.

And he was right. Pierre Trudeau eventually saved his son's hide, but the greater message seemed clear: Trudeau did not want to see young people's lives destroyed by a simple possession charge. But his government refused to decriminalize pot, and to this day young people, the vast majority being Indigenous and black youths and young adults, are still having their lives turned upside down for something that will soon be legal. After all, they do not have a former world leader to call and get them out of trouble.

Rather than enabling pot entrepreneurs by propping up dispensaries and helping to create jobs, Wynne has opted to corner the market.
But the recent announcement from Kathleen Wynne — declaring marijuana a provincial government monopoly — is by far the worst thing to come out of the pot file. It's not like we didn't know it was coming, but to hear her reasoning, her tone-deaf declarations and nanny state-like posturing is predictably nauseating. One main attraction of legalization was supposed to be the wealth of opportunity for entrepreneurs to create new businesses and jobs, especially in a province where the cost of living is not offset by emerging markets.

More from Huffpost Canada:

BLOG: Ontario Liberals' Pot Monopoly Is Designed To Fail
Canada Marijuana Legalization: Police Services Ask Feds To Postpone July 2018 Start Date
Ontario's Pot Plan Won't Stop The Black Market, Marijuana Users Say
Instead, the provincial Liberals have destroyed a small business bonanza, deciding that Ontarians are not responsible enough to handle a product that many of us have been well acquainted with for decades. The recent crackdown of pot dispensaries was less about law and order and more about market share. Rather than enabling pot entrepreneurs by propping up dispensaries and helping to create jobs, Wynne has opted to corner the market in hopes that the added revenue will help bail out her government after a decade of mismanagement. Her political instincts have no identifiable benefactor except her government's own coffers and, suspiciously, Liberal party insiders who stand to make a huge sum of money investing in government grow-ops.

Let's not forget that this is the same government who, after decades of prodding, have finally taken a baby step and allowed a limited number of non-governmental retailers to start selling beer and wine. Alcohol, which has for decades proven itself to be far more sinister from a public health perspective than cannabis, should be used as an evolutionary guideline in how it is commodified. Instead, Wynne seems to prefer making the same mistakes Ontario has made with liquor under the ironic banner of protecting the public.

And let's not absolve the Trudeau government for Wynne's short-sightedness. His legalization tour started with an enthusiastic speech in British Columbia (duh), to appeasing concerned conservatives in the House of Commons by promising to protect children, to stalling the legalization process and refusing to decriminalize, to punting the lion's share of the responsibility to provinces who will either follow Wynne's nanny-state example or do what any reasonable premier should do — allow the free market to create new wealth among its entrepreneurs.

But this? This is nothing but a slap in the face to those who have been fighting for legalization for years. This is a condescending reminder that some self-labelled progressives can only understand policy if it is executed by government will.

If I thought this would be the end result of the efforts we put into getting government to loosen its grip on weed prohibition, I would have never tried to sway Liberal delegates or asked Trudeau what he thought about legalization in the first place.

But I dropped the ball, and I should have known his non-committed answer was a signal that the future would be just as muddy.

So I still say Vote no to legalize cannabis or else!
 

geneva_sativa

Well-known member
Trudeau said of legalization, "I don't know if it's entirely consistent with the kind of society we're trying to build."

Newsflash Prime Minstrel . . . Society already exists, what the fuck are you building ?!
 
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