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HPA Aeroponics for Commercial Production

Mad Lab

Member
Hey everyone,

I know this is a subject not too many are versed in, especially on a large-scale level but I think if given a second look you'll agree that high pressure aeroponics (HPA) is the future of commercial indoor and greenhouse cannabis production. Not only cannabis production but all urban farming food crops.

Based on a report from the UN last year, the world must produce 60% more food by 2050 to avoid mass unrest
. And the world just doesn't have that much good land left. Not to mention the land we've already destroyed from farming the past century.
http://rt.com/news/world-food-security-2050-846/

And we're not even talking about the water yet.

"A severe drought in California—now approaching four years long—has depleted snowpacks, rivers, and lakes, and groundwater use has soared to make up the shortfall. A new report from Stanford University says that nearly 60 percent of the state's water needs are now met by groundwater, up from 40 percent in years when normal amounts of rain and snow fall." http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...er-california-drought-aquifers-hidden-crisis/

We need to save our water and our land. And the best thing we've come up with so far is HPA Aeroponics.

With the legalization in Washington, Colorado, Alaska, Oregon and hopefully Washington D.C., commercial producers are looking for ways to save. Save labor, save time, save energy, save on yearly cost of goods, basically save MONEY.

And for those who have taken the time to read about HPA and for those who have had the privilege and diligence to actually experience true aeroponics, you know with so many benefits prevalent, it's hard to understand why every cultivator that likes to progress and doesn't settle for the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy doesn't make their way to HPA.

There just hasn't been enough attention on it. Yes, NASA implemented it a few decades ago deeming it the most efficient and effective growing practice to date, but barely any companies have dipped into making true HPA systems for the public. Recently there has been a stronger interest in HPA and we have a few companies launching products. I think the cannabis industry will be the ones to get more attention on this almost perfect growing system.

Here's a statement describing the hygiene of this almost perfect, sterile system. This is huge for commercial production. We want to minimize the chances of being infected by harmful bacteria and fungi. We also want to eliminate the recirculating systems worst feature: plants contact with it's hormones, salts and other toxins that have already been released.

"Aeroponic growing systems provide clean, efficient, and rapid food production. Crops can be planted and harvested in the system year round without interruption, and without contamination from soil, pesticides, and residue. Since the growing environment is clean and sterile, it greatly reduces the chances of spreading plant disease and infection commonly found in soil and other growing media."
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/aeroponic_plants.html

Why is Aeroponics so efficient?

"Aeroponics systems can reduce water usage by 98 percent, fertilizer usage by 60 percent, and pesticide usage by 100 percent, all while maximizing crop yields. Plants grown in the aeroponic systems have also been shown to uptake more minerals and vitamins, making the plants healthier and potentially more nutritious.
"
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/aeroponic_plants.html

That's right. So take whatever plan you had to do your hydroponic warehouse. Reduce your overall fertilizer costs by half. That's because HPA uses an average of half the recommended dosage level of ppms than hydroponic methods. If you were paying 100k a year in nutrient, now it's 50k.

Labor costs can be saved by up too 70%.

Your reducing the amount of water you feed as well. HPA saves 20% water over recirculating hydroponic systems and up to 90%+ of other methods with medium. So you're now 50k turns into 7-40k instead of 100k.

So there's all that savings and there's still more. There's 50% more faster growth than soil and 20% faster growth over the best hydroponic methods. The fact the roots dangle in air receiving 99% osmosis instead of blocked by medium, also means if your rockwool/coco/soil/hydroton costs were 100k per year for your operation than you could reduce that to 0. And they grow faster and bigger. And you dont throw away medium or have to recompost or remix soil!

Arn't you in love yet?

-Up to 90%+ water savings
-Up to 50%+ fertilizer savings
-Up to 70%+ labor cost savings
-Up to 50%+ faster growth on soil
-Up to 20%+ faster growth than hydroponics
-Few, if any bacteria or other contamination problems
-No medium to purchase
-No medium to dispose of
-No water tank with toxins to dispose of (if DTW)
-Finished roots may be beneficial use in another area

Anyone thinking about commercial production with HPA?

Let's talk about it. Anyone with experience?

I've been doing HPA for years, among many other methods but my passion is always the HPA garden. But we need to get more education out there to the guys doing it big or going big soon.
 

queequeg152

Active member
Veteran
i think most of your statistics are overblown, but i can defiantly see HPA being exploited in some very specialized areas, namley in the production of leafy greens, and small shrubby products... the best example being strawberries....

its all economics. strawberries are a fairly difficult commodity to produce, being extremely sensitive to weather and pests... as such its expensive.

expensive crops merit protected agriculture, and techniques involving hydroponics.


if strawberries grew irrespective of outdoor conditions, one could not justify the above, as one could simply plant more low cost outdoor products and be far ahead of the game. ]

HPA would work with lettuce IMO because they are not terribly hard to support. one could take a transplant, much as he or she would other wise, in any other system, and simply place it into what ever root chamber they have in place.

same with strawberries. moreover the roots of these crops is not terribly extensive, so this root chamber need not be terribly large.

but commodities like tomatos? cucumbers etc, require too much time and labor and capital in both the setup and maintenance. one would need far larger rooting chambers, and its not entirely clear how such a rooting chamber should be constructed in the first place. as far as i know, such things are not firmly established in agronomy, nor are they frequently studied.

imo it would not be worth the paultry benefits one would see, as fertilizer costs and water costs pale in comparison to the labor costs, electrical, fuel etc. with respect to a conventional drain to waste rock wool type multi tunnel greenhouse as we know them today.


regarding the engineering challange of HPA equipment? there really isnt one. its a very simple system. for very small scales diaphragm pumps are fine... for far larger ones, one can move into multi stage centrifugal pumps. pressure regulation is trivial, and accumulation can be accomplished with conventional hydro pneumatic tanks, again all at very large scales.

air atomization can be accomplished with large scale screw compressors, though i doubt such a system could ever be cost effective, owing to the cost of these diffusers, and energy consumption of air compressors.
 

TheArchitect

Member
Veteran
And you could come in the next day to a completely dead crop.

Yes, I know PLCs with all their sensor capabilities could alert you, you could build redundancy, you could have 24/7 human monitoring.

Bottom line, it is the future, but there must be a major issue we are overlooking for hydroponic producers on the commercial scale to not even consider it at this point.
 

queequeg152

Active member
Veteran
And you could come in the next day to a completely dead crop.

Yes, I know PLCs with all their sensor capabilities could alert you, you could build redundancy, you could have 24/7 human monitoring.

Bottom line, it is the future, but there must be a major issue we are overlooking for hydroponic producers on the commercial scale to not even consider it at this point.


a real automated greenhouse with proper engineered heating and ventialtion is an enormous outlay financially.

i recall reading that its pretty much a 30 year investment in most cases, and is really only feasable in areas where the climate is all but 100% inhospitable to growing crops. such is the cases in the near artic circle countries, scandinavia, denmark, holland. also in desert climates, israel is far and away the best examples of this.

i dont think its reasonable to suggest that these folks do not embrace it because they know of some technical challange that we do not.

rather id suggest that they do not embrace it because its wholly under researched, AND not terribly compelling from an ROI perspective. even the ag universities cant be bothered. again because IMO the potential benifits are not significant to merit the extra labor and costs.

a rockwool slab costs, at multi pallet quantities, probably a dollar or less. that dollars worth of rockwool will produce 40+ lbs of tomatos per plant, of which there will be 3 plants per rockwool slab.

thats 120lbs of gross weight per slab. an lb of tomato in a shitty climate without access to farm produce trucked in from say... mexico will pay over a dollar...

last i checked the fertilizer to produce hydroponic bell peppers was a cost of single digit pennies per lb.

the labor electrical and heating costs are far more than these.
 

queequeg152

Active member
Veteran
and 40 is a low ball estimate.

ive herd tell of producers in the UK reaching 80 lbs per plant. granted this is for a 9-10 month run, but still its an astronomical number.
far more than one could ever expect to see with a field crop, having at best an 4-5 month productive spring, and a 2 month productive fall period... assuming no hail or freak weather.
 

queequeg152

Active member
Veteran
put another way, the cost of retrofitting HPA equipment into say, a greenhouse setup to run prime colored bell peppers( ignoring the technical issues), could be far better, and more saftly spent, simply adding another hectare of conventional greenhouse production.
 

TheArchitect

Member
Veteran
I figured it was money.

I have no clue what a hpa system would cost, but I've priced out a nice greenhouse, and fully understand how much those cost.

Thank goodness we grow such a high value crop.
 

Mad Lab

Member
Thanks for your response. I am happy to have a debate on the pro's and con's of HPA.

i think most of your statistics are overblown, but i can defiantly see HPA being exploited in some very specialized areas, namley in the production of leafy greens, and small shrubby products... the best example being strawberries....

I'm not so sure they are overblown. Please provide links to correct statistics.

HPA would work with lettuce IMO because they are not terribly hard to support.

Trellis support exists. If water becomes scarce in the future I doubt plant support will stop us from finding a way to save water? Although I agree with that statement to the extent of say corn or fruit trees. Obviously HPA wouldn't be very practical.

but commodities like tomatoes? cucumbers etc, require too much time and labor and capital in both the setup and maintenance. one would need far larger rooting chambers, and its not entirely clear how such a rooting chamber should be constructed in the first place.

I'm here to tell you it is very possible and not much labor is involved. I grow large plants and medium plants and small plants in HPA. But yes, the right structure of the system is important. Root chambers should be deep, 2-3 feet for cannabis and tomatoes. The nozzles must be carefully placed on the manifold to prevent dry spots. And once the plant roots fill the root chamber you must make sure your spray radius reaches the center rootmass of each plant. You can make the 1 second feed slightly longer to prevent waterstress or a fogging system in conjunction with misters.

imo it would not be worth the paultry benefits one would see, as fertilizer costs and water costs pale in comparison to the labor costs, electrical, fuel etc. with respect to a conventional drain to waste rock wool type multi tunnel greenhouse as we know them today.

Sorry, your mistaken. I kindly urge you to do more research.

regarding the engineering challange of HPA equipment? there really isnt one. its a very simple system. for very small scales diaphragm pumps are fine... for far larger ones, one can move into multi stage centrifugal pumps. pressure regulation is trivial, and accumulation can be accomplished with conventional hydro pneumatic tanks, again all at very large scales.

Yes you are right. Simple system, you've also proven you know more than most on IC. The challenge is the center rootmass getting saturated as i mentioned before.

But, as in every HPA thread, someone will state "but the power could fail, the pump could fail, the nozzles could clog... then I could walk in the next day and see dead plants"

First off, The solenoids, timer and pump are connected to a 12v battery with a trickle charger so that takes care of power outage.

Second, With proper filtration a good quality diaphram pump rarely fails within the first year. Accumulator tanks can also hold quite a bit of water and up to a few weeks of pressurized nutrient solution so the pump only has to charge it once every few weeks. But you make two seperate manifolds that run through each system. So when one pump goes out, the other remains.

If you thought more about it and applied yourself a little more, I think you'd see with all the savings, it could justify implementing constant maintenance procedures for cleaning nozzles to prevent clogs.

air atomization can be accomplished with large scale screw compressors, though i doubt such a system could ever be cost effective, owing to the cost of these diffusers, and energy consumption of air compressors.

AA wouldn't be cost effective for commercial production. Although it produces good results.
 

Mad Lab

Member
put another way, the cost of retrofitting HPA equipment into say, a greenhouse setup to run prime colored bell peppers( ignoring the technical issues), could be far better, and more saftly spent, simply adding another hectare of conventional greenhouse production.

Yes, HPA in GH's would be ideal. With automated filtration and fertilizer injectors(dosatrons) The labor really gets cut down by over half.

Check out Indoor Harvest Corp. I like their products, should be releasing soon. They make SOG systems like the one in this link which are great for SOG only. But they also do build outs for a reduced price per sq ft. The plastics and materials used are FDA approved materials. So when the fed's legalize and the FDA comes in, your already good to go.

But more so, check out the NDS. I like how they set there's up with the reservoir placement. 1 Reservoir can feed 50 4x8 trays. (or those dimesions on your trough system if you had a custom buildout done)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iRRUgYJf2s
 

Mad Lab

Member
Ordering new parts right now.

I'm going to put together a smallscale HPA setup in the next few weeks for everyone to see one step at a time.

I'll put up specs and a parts lists with links to where to find the parts. Most are cost efficient parts as well as quality parts, most of them tried and true.

i'll be posting pics this week.
 

queequeg152

Active member
Veteran
Interesting. What medium in the GH for these numbers?

rock wool slabs. its not difficult to reach 40 from what i can tell. ive run a similar setup, sans the greenhouse, and its very productive

Yes, HPA in GH's would be ideal. With automated filtration and fertilizer injectors(dosatrons) The labor really gets cut down by over half.

these greenhouses all already running fertigation systems. hell i run a fertigation system.

the labor is spent in hanging, and rehanging, clipping, pruning, harvesting, cleaning, inspecting, packing, frieght, maintenance,etc etc.

the cost of fertilizer is pennies in comparison to these costs, i promise you.

a bag of calcinit is like 35 bucks in pallet quantities.

I'd like to see some pics of your hpa set up.

http://thehotpepper.com/topic/18488-my-hp-aero-grow/page-2

my only time fucking with HPA. one of my very first times growing plants of any kind too.
i didnt have the cash to fuck around with fabricating proper root chambers, so i said fuck it and went outdoors with drip to waste fertigation. never looked back.
 

Mad Lab

Member
Of course auto ferts to soil drip systems outdoors is great, but child's play. Been doing that for 15 plus years. Nothing new there, but if you live by the "if it aint broke dont fix it" philosophy your not going anywhere but where you are now. I like progress.

If you think saving water and fert costs is obsolete, I think you're the guy who throws away his pennies instead of saving them. A real company wants to talk to the guy trying to save pennies and dollars for them.

You can say "well we can save more in other areas, so lets talk about those.." and yes! I agree, lets save in those areas as well. But lets talk about Aeroponics.
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
aero rocks ...its a lot of work, I got tired of sprayers clogging even with filters...worked with lines with holes punched in em..worked ok...I made a modified hybrid setup that was swc too..i don't miss hydro...I played around with setups a lot when I had greenhouses and money..this was my first setup...Styrofoam raft setups were my fav tho...or swc setups
 

TheArchitect

Member
Veteran
Styrofoam raft setups were my fav tho...or swc setups

Dude! I've been fantasizing about a raft system like they do lettuce, just pop a rooted clone in and as it travels to the end it flowers, and you harvest.

I think it would be stupid productive, but would take a dedicated clone factory so you could plant and harvest everyday.

I'll wait until its safe to run the tens of thousands of plants it would take to do that commercially.
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
There's a HUGE difference between growing herbs, and veggies and cannabis

I grew hpa for ~ 2 years

Cannabis root system is many times bigger, then gets bigger still during bud development

Each plant root ball is > basketball size, so space between is an issue, often leads to hammocking, which in essence nullifies the definition of hpa

I took things I learned from hpa and developed a super simple DIY Mini-Me F & D which works extremely well and is easily expandable for the average cannabis grower
 

Lixtryum

New member
I'm going to put together a smallscale HPA setup in the next few weeks for everyone to see one step at a time.

Thanks for starting this thread, I myself am also very interested in HPA and the commercial application of it.

I've been wanting to build an HPA setup for a long time, and have been held back by the lack of quality information out there, although I find more every day :)

I will definitely check out this setup you're going to build and learn from it as best as I can.
 

queequeg152

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for starting this thread, I myself am also very interested in HPA and the commercial application of it.

I've been wanting to build an HPA setup for a long time, and have been held back by the lack of quality information out there, although I find more every day :)

I will definitely check out this setup you're going to build and learn from it as best as I can.

the only lack of information is with respect to large root chambers.

if you are truely interested, id suggest building an easily serviceable breadboard type setup and start with some lettuce... perfect weather for this atm... assuming you live in the US, or a similar latitude in this hemisphere.
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
most aero setups for dope is setup towards small clones...wouldn't take much to make the rootspace bigger..but have you priced bigass pvc tubes....expensive
 
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