-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
using coco without acid
- Thread starter tiffa
- Start date
Have you advanced to the point where your testing the pH in the root zone? Or my personal and lazy choice of the run-off?
If like most, you only test the tank, then your getting a little ahead of yourself by trying to change the rootzone pH.
In soft water areas, you can almost forget the input pH. The coco will buffer it. As an example, I ran a RO water grow, using no adjustment. The feed went into the coco around pH4 iirc. But the rootzone and runoff were in range. The coco corrected the pH of my feed, as the feed was in no way 'stuck in its ways' unlike hardwater which has a pH much harder to effect.
Chucking bio on the surface of coco is making an uncontrollable pH adjustment. As a feed stuff, it will also bugger with what you wanted to feed them, and the cation ratio's in the coco. I fear you will be making tea's next, and recycling your dinner scraps into organic medium. Buying tie dye clothes instead of a white lab coat.
Growing plants in coco is really quite simple. If something is wrong, it won't take us long to find it and advise you. Nobody is going to say to top dress though. That will never be the answer.
So... what's up? Or are you just trying to make problems for yourself?
If like most, you only test the tank, then your getting a little ahead of yourself by trying to change the rootzone pH.
In soft water areas, you can almost forget the input pH. The coco will buffer it. As an example, I ran a RO water grow, using no adjustment. The feed went into the coco around pH4 iirc. But the rootzone and runoff were in range. The coco corrected the pH of my feed, as the feed was in no way 'stuck in its ways' unlike hardwater which has a pH much harder to effect.
Chucking bio on the surface of coco is making an uncontrollable pH adjustment. As a feed stuff, it will also bugger with what you wanted to feed them, and the cation ratio's in the coco. I fear you will be making tea's next, and recycling your dinner scraps into organic medium. Buying tie dye clothes instead of a white lab coat.
Growing plants in coco is really quite simple. If something is wrong, it won't take us long to find it and advise you. Nobody is going to say to top dress though. That will never be the answer.
So... what's up? Or are you just trying to make problems for yourself?
Hehee...funny and insightful. Ohhhhh god bare with me.
....I should explain more, I'm a lazy arse. I'm pretty dialed using CRF and plain PH'd down water in a rez with blumats and coco. My tap water 6.8 even after adding nutes it's still high so need to lower it but interesting you say coco will buffer somewhat, might try that....My only problem is warm water in the rez, and I fancy cooler water for more DO cos I'm greedy SO....
My best yields were when I hand watered back in the day, I reckon it's because I could give the girls nice fresh COOL water out the tap daily - with a blumat Rez I need bleach, the water gets warm, dubious about getting a chiller etc etc
So my thinking was this....CRF nutes in coco (as I've been using), with a dash of acidic peat on top to counter my 6.8/7 tapwater and then water direct from the tap into my pots. I will defo keep my white lab honest! No dreads and smelly girlfriend just yet.
So in prep for the summer, I fancy just watering my plants with a tap water hosing, forgetting the 'faff' of rez's but without going back to soil....unless I can use a shithot soil that yields like coco?...That's what I want!...I didn't even know there was a organic hydro section - if anyone can solve that puzzle you muthafucas can! ;-)...It's fine tuning really and I fear I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a chiller?
Maybe I could try with no acid at all and just see if my tapwater is enough and the coco will buffer? I ain't brave enough though would that work? Oh my water is very hard.
....I should explain more, I'm a lazy arse. I'm pretty dialed using CRF and plain PH'd down water in a rez with blumats and coco. My tap water 6.8 even after adding nutes it's still high so need to lower it but interesting you say coco will buffer somewhat, might try that....My only problem is warm water in the rez, and I fancy cooler water for more DO cos I'm greedy SO....
My best yields were when I hand watered back in the day, I reckon it's because I could give the girls nice fresh COOL water out the tap daily - with a blumat Rez I need bleach, the water gets warm, dubious about getting a chiller etc etc
So my thinking was this....CRF nutes in coco (as I've been using), with a dash of acidic peat on top to counter my 6.8/7 tapwater and then water direct from the tap into my pots. I will defo keep my white lab honest! No dreads and smelly girlfriend just yet.
So in prep for the summer, I fancy just watering my plants with a tap water hosing, forgetting the 'faff' of rez's but without going back to soil....unless I can use a shithot soil that yields like coco?...That's what I want!...I didn't even know there was a organic hydro section - if anyone can solve that puzzle you muthafucas can! ;-)...It's fine tuning really and I fear I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a chiller?
Maybe I could try with no acid at all and just see if my tapwater is enough and the coco will buffer? I ain't brave enough though would that work? Oh my water is very hard.
No, the question is, would a small amount of organic matter such as peat or some nice soilless mix modify/buffer my PH from the tap which is at 6.8/7 in my coco so I can have nice fresh cool water straight from the tap without using a chiller....I think it's a matter of bite the bullet and try it myself.
I/we're trying to work out a way to water coco straight from the tap, a good topic no?
Hmmm....A root zone test huh, I might try that. Your root zone insights are fascinating - and I thought Derbyshire people were daft as a brush, go figure ;-)
Peat on top might not be as uncontrollable as you think, it might just be a good new idea and be in range like your PH4 experience, nah a bit of peat won't affect EC to much don't 'poo poo' it just yet duck ;-).
You say top dressing will never be the answer but guess what? you ain't tried it have you? so you don't know if it will work or not, imagine if it did?...then it will be a method of watering coco straight from the tap no PH'ing required. To ask it another way, assuming CRF is used as feed, how could you water coco straight from the tap if the tap water is 6.8/7ph?
I mean I only need to drop my Ph by 0.6 and I can then happily blast my trays with cool fresh hose water instead of arseing about with warm rez water, messing with chillers and PH down...It's a good problem if it can be cracked though huh?
Yes, I may well be creating problems for myself, I just wanna know if it's possible to spray a coco pot straight with a hose is all though. A powerful Sith I would be if I could discover the secret.
Last edited:
I see what you are trying to do now.
Off the top of my head aiming for accuracy an inline acidity doser followed by a mixing section. A filter would be cheaper to remove the alkalinity.
I wouldn't try your method (my capacity for experimenting is sadly quite low) but if I did I would start with a slurry test of the medium as mentioned and go from there.
Off the top of my head aiming for accuracy an inline acidity doser followed by a mixing section. A filter would be cheaper to remove the alkalinity.
I wouldn't try your method (my capacity for experimenting is sadly quite low) but if I did I would start with a slurry test of the medium as mentioned and go from there.
Ah that's great advice, sounds just the thing, I wondered if something like that existed, thanks Mikell.
Lyfespan
Active member
i water with my tap from time to time, 210 ppm or .4 ec on my water, even do 50/50 ro and tap
i do have a filter for chlorine removal on my tap water source
Is a chiller an option? I havn't used blumats, but presume there is never any real flow rate. So the water leaves the tank. Then sits around in black pipes baking for a bit. Before the plants get it. Which would make chilling the tank a little pointless.
I guess you could pump water around a circuit, passed each blumat.
I wouldn't personally dress my coco, as it's a reusable substrate.
If your using blumats your not getting any real advantage from the coco. I imagine you would be better in a soil. No worse. For coco to beat soil, you need to take advantage of it's aeration capabilities. It goes a little something like.. drench it with a fresh fertigation till run-off. It can't get too wet once the plants established. Then size your pots small, so that feed is used quickly. As its used, it's replaced by air. Then very soon, your fertigating again. Taking fresh neuts to the roots. Washing out the old stuff. That's how you rock it with coco, and if the rest of your system is right, you would see a real improvement.
If your just going to keep it damp, it may as well be compost. There are some good mixes available. The massive B&Q bags of verve are cheap and cheerful. Jacks Magic is really rich, being mostly peat. You could start them in the Verve, and use Jacks as you pot up. Jacks is a bit hot for starting some things, and the Verve has no peat, so isn't a great substrate to be finishing in. The Which yearly compost trials are a good read. Or you could just grab some all-mix from the hydro shop.
I guess you could pump water around a circuit, passed each blumat.
I wouldn't personally dress my coco, as it's a reusable substrate.
If your using blumats your not getting any real advantage from the coco. I imagine you would be better in a soil. No worse. For coco to beat soil, you need to take advantage of it's aeration capabilities. It goes a little something like.. drench it with a fresh fertigation till run-off. It can't get too wet once the plants established. Then size your pots small, so that feed is used quickly. As its used, it's replaced by air. Then very soon, your fertigating again. Taking fresh neuts to the roots. Washing out the old stuff. That's how you rock it with coco, and if the rest of your system is right, you would see a real improvement.
If your just going to keep it damp, it may as well be compost. There are some good mixes available. The massive B&Q bags of verve are cheap and cheerful. Jacks Magic is really rich, being mostly peat. You could start them in the Verve, and use Jacks as you pot up. Jacks is a bit hot for starting some things, and the Verve has no peat, so isn't a great substrate to be finishing in. The Which yearly compost trials are a good read. Or you could just grab some all-mix from the hydro shop.
GrimyGreasy
Member
Why do want to water with cold water rather than the same temp as the root zone/room temp? What benefit is there?
Mate I’m trying to tell you, if you add peat to your coco it’s just a soilless mix. Coco has very specific physicochemical properties and if you want the benefits you need to fertigate each watering at~pH 6, multiple times per day.
Your real question is “how can I grow with coco, osmacote and tap water” and I don’t think it can be done.
Mate I’m trying to tell you, if you add peat to your coco it’s just a soilless mix. Coco has very specific physicochemical properties and if you want the benefits you need to fertigate each watering at~pH 6, multiple times per day.
Your real question is “how can I grow with coco, osmacote and tap water” and I don’t think it can be done.
GrimyGreasy
Member
Why are you giving advice on things you have never used? Blumats and coco are amazing
Yes you're right I don't think it can be done so now I'm going to accept I'll have to add acids... the reason I was trying to avoid acid by the way was to improve my micro herd
The reason I want nice cool Water is for higher dissolved, 18° c would be perfect...by running at night and dialling in I can keep the reservoir temperature at 21° C
Thankfully there is no need for a chiller I'm happy with that now.
J
jaded1
Have you tried using citric acid instead of the p/n acids Tiffa?Is what most organic growers use for ph down and also helps keep p active in root zone
