Serious Question; Male vs Female Terpene profiles

lovehaze · Jan 15, 2017

First real post here besides the welcome.

So I guess I cannot post this in the breeders section as I have a low post count so I'm going to try here.

I have been having a debate with a friend of mine and find myself to be sufficiently uninformed on the subject to answer his experience. I figured asking the community might shed some light.

Here is the matter at hand. He says that when there is a male present he can smell it. That male cannabis give of a specific Terpenoid profile which he can recognize and identify. He went on to identify some basic genetic information which I am not versed in. Any help understanding how this could be possible would be much appreciated.

In my mind the genetic information from the parents that precludes the changing of the x to the y chromosome would carry to the information for the terpene profile to either a male or female complete with no change? Is this viable option for choosing males? He mentioned something along the lines that this is a genetics basics thing for all species. I thought that males for breeding were chosen for traits including terpene profiles that would be complete with no special trait specifically attached to the y chromosome? Thanks anyone who provides useful information so I can sort this out. If there is a conversation about this somewhere I did not see it and a link would be very helpful. :comfort:

MJPassion · Jan 15, 2017

There's no proof what so ever of sex linked traits in cannabis so I'd be surprised if what your friend claims can be done... Sexing by smell.

Maybe there's details missing like...
When ya get your nose that close to your plants you can see what's happening at the nodes...

Ask em for more evidence.

angelgoob · Jan 15, 2017

Sounds interesting. I wonder if I can train mice to detect b-caryophylene. lol

lovehaze · Jan 15, 2017

MJPassion - Thanks for responding and I was pretty sure that would be the case. That nobody has come across this or it would be clear information at this point. I will mention that my friend is a realist and he said that it is not dogma just something he has noticed over the years. Still it is good to look into uncharted possibilities I guess. Thanks for looking out.

angelgoob- lol it could be a fun project lol maybe a German Shepard could help out I dunno a whole lot about lab mice.

Ratzilla · Jan 15, 2017

Howdy all!
Now I have read Mendal book on breeding as well as Clarks book on Marijuana botany.
I am but a pollen chucker more then a breeder but have never heard of humans being able to smell the difference in the sex of plants.Except flowering of course.
I do remember reading about how the females when in flower can sense when a male is or is not around.
It is a trigger that when no males are sense (in sensitive strains) that hermaphrodite can be triggered.
I mean to say it is about preserving their own species.
I started out searching for the holy grail of strains and after finding a few favorites decided that i would be a better grower learning about a particular strain.
I took two of my favorites a Skunk red hair and crossed her with brothers grim C-99.
I call her Skunk A Rella.
I have made my own cross like 5 or 6 back crosses ago and she has shown different traits on me a few times now.
Ratz :tiphat:

a pollen chucker

Betterhaff · Jan 15, 2017

Not sure about the terpenes but plants can contain pheromones, whether cannabis does or not I don’t know. Maybe your friend has the ability to identify cannabis sex pheromones if there is such a thing.

aridbud · Jan 15, 2017

http://techhydra.com/tech-news/scie...on-pheromones-emit-chemical-distress-signals/

seeded · Jan 15, 2017

It's utter bullshit but if you want to prove it just start a pack of seeds, blindfold him and then make him smell them in a different order every week until they've been sexed. When they show their gender show him his flip flopping weekly results and put the issue to rest for good.

lovehaze · Jan 15, 2017

Ratzilla - Thanks for chiming in. My friend says the distinctive smell he experiences has kind of a rubber smell that it might be something to do with the fiber of the male specifically.

I remember reading something similar to what you are talking about females being able to sense males etc. I thought that all plants that can produce a male part are with a Y chromosome and therefore can be constituted as male. So a hermaphrodite plant is actually a male with female parts. This would be counter-intuitive a little bit to what you said. Maybe someone can clear that up?

Betterhaff - Thank you for mentioning this. Pheromones might be closer to what we are thinking of but how does that work in conjunction with our olfactory system and wouldn't someone have noticed this specific complex of chemicals coming from a male plant by now? Maybe this is documented somewhere and I'm missing something? Any linked info I can read up will help me out thanks.

Aridbud - nice link interesting read. many different ways of communication.

Ok so we can at least agree that there is a genetic marker that controls the sex of the plant. As far as sex linked traits go...what about when a female plant sets up for bud weight or a male plant stretches open to catch the wind and increase its potential pollination range are these not genetic markers that depend on an XX or XY chromosome set? Just trying to understand.

lovehaze · Jan 15, 2017

Ratzilla - on second thought.... if your talking about when a plant creates an S1 generation cross...or selfs itself. (presumably under the stress situation of no male being present) I have seen a feminized plant do this more than once but the resulting pollen and seed itself has no Y chromosome. So now I'm just curiously confused.

lovehaze · Jan 15, 2017

Seeded- calm down bro we are in here trying to have an intelligent conversation. What you suggest might have merit but suggesting in such a way makes you sound like an indecent person. If you had read correctly you would see that the plant is already identified as male before the smell is recognized. I went on to ask if perhaps this might be a viable option of identification. Never once did my friend claim he identified the male by the smell. The question is whether or not a male plant has a gender specific chemistry profile beyond the actually sex organs. Is he identifying some type of terpenoid complex or perhaps as our colleagues have recently mentioned it is a pheromone possibly? Still looking for more info.

seeded · Jan 16, 2017

lovehaze said:
Seeded- calm down bro we are in here trying to have an intelligent conversation. What you suggest might have merit but suggesting in such a way makes you sound like an indecent person. If you had read correctly you would see that the plant is already identified as male before the smell is recognized. I went on to ask if perhaps this might be a viable option of identification. Never once did my friend claim he identified the male by the smell. The question is whether or not a male plant has a gender specific chemistry profile beyond the actually sex organs. Is he identifying some type of terpenoid complex or perhaps as our colleagues have recently mentioned it is a pheromone possibly? Still looking for more info.

I'm as calm as can be and I did read correctly...You say he can smell it, I call bullshit and offer a method to put him to the test.

lovehaze said:
Here is the matter at hand. He says that when there is a male present he can smell it. That male cannabis give of a specific Terpenoid profile which he can recognize and identify. He went on to identify some basic genetic information which I am not versed in. Any help understanding how this could be possible would be much appreciated.

As for the rest of it experience tells me that until they show preflowers you haven't a clue what you've got and I've also read a few old timey scientific papers that said they couldn't tell the gender until then either even after taking samples looking at the chromosomes under a microscope as well. If that's true it means the stinkiest of seedlings won't know either so no trait other than the flowers themselves appearing can reveal the gender of the plant and only by growing it out can you make sure it stays that way too.

MJPassion · Jan 16, 2017

lovehaze said:
Ratzilla - Thanks for chiming in. My friend says the distinctive smell he experiences has kind of a rubber smell that it might be something to do with the fiber of the male specifically.

I remember reading something similar to what you are talking about females being able to sense males etc. I thought that all plants that can produce a male part are with a Y chromosome and therefore can be constituted as male. So a hermaphrodite plant is actually a male with female parts. This would be counter-intuitive a little bit to what you said. Maybe someone can clear that up?

Betterhaff - Thank you for mentioning this. Pheromones might be closer to what we are thinking of but how does that work in conjunction with our olfactory system and wouldn't someone have noticed this specific complex of chemicals coming from a male plant by now? Maybe this is documented somewhere and I'm missing something? Any linked info I can read up will help me out thanks.

Aridbud - nice link interesting read. many different ways of communication.

Ok so we can at least agree that there is a genetic marker that controls the sex of the plant. As far as sex linked traits go...what about when a female plant sets up for bud weight or a male plant stretches open to catch the wind and increase its potential pollination range are these not genetic markers that depend on an XX or XY chromosome set? Just trying to understand.

Your close but the truth is the exact opposite according to scientific literature. (I've got no links)
Herm plants are confused females showing their masculinity due to a stressful situation.

MJPassion · Jan 16, 2017

seeded said:
I'm as calm as can be and I did read correctly...You say he can smell it, I call bullshit and offer a method to put him to the test.

As for the rest of it experience tells me that until they show preflowers you haven't a clue what you've got and I've also read a few old timey scientific papers that said they couldn't tell the gender until then either even after taking samples looking at the chromosomes under a microscope as well. If that's true it means the stinkiest of seedlings won't know either so no trait other than the flowers themselves appearing can reveal the gender of the plant and only by growing it out can you make sure it stays that way too.

Your wrong seeded...
A plants sex can be determined using a simple DNA test (chromosomes) due to the X & Y genes.
.http://www.phylosbioscience.com/rapid-cannabis-sexing/

However... Hermaphrodite prone female plants cannot be identified & have to be weeded out the old fashioned way via observation & culling.

lovehaze · Sep 22, 2017

i have to bump this and ask....is the sex of the plant predetermined in the seed? or are there environmental factors that cause a sex change. like a human fetus that starts as xx then becomes xy... does the plant change after sprout or is the sex already determined in the seed...could you test the seed to determine the sex of the seed itself and subsequently the plant that it produces?

Dropped Cat · Sep 23, 2017

Sex is set in any given seed, there is no environmental pressure
that can alter what is set.

Anything done to alter the expression is hormonal.

MJPassion · Sep 23, 2017

lovehaze said:
i have to bump this and ask....is the sex of the plant predetermined in the seed? or are there environmental factors that cause a sex change. like a human fetus that starts as xx then becomes xy... does the plant change after sprout or is the sex already determined in the seed...could you test the seed to determine the sex of the seed itself and subsequently the plant that it produces?

Dropped Cat is 100% correct.

If you test a seed you wont grow a plant from it. Best to test the cotyledon or other part after germination.

Complete Noob · Sep 24, 2017

I personally have noticed a specific smell when it comes to male plants I think your friend is right. It smells way more citrus like and it's the same exact smell each time

Elmer Bud · Sep 24, 2017

lovehaze said:
Ratzilla -

I remember reading something similar to what you are talking about females being able to sense males etc. I thought that all plants that can produce a male part are with a Y chromosome and therefore can be constituted as male. So a hermaphrodite plant is actually a male with female parts. This would be counter-intuitive a little bit to what you said. Maybe someone can clear that up?

.

G `day LH

Herms are confused females .
Google ;Sengbusch scale .

Do herms smell male or female ?

I think your friend who thinks he can smell males has a vivid imagination .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Elmer Bud · Sep 24, 2017

Complete Noob said:
I personally have noticed a specific smell when it comes to male plants I think your friend is right. It smells way more citrus like and it's the same exact smell each time

G `day CN

No matter the strain they all smell the same ?
There may be a problem with your sense of smell .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Serious Question; Male vs Female Terpene profiles

Member

Observer

Member

Member

Member

Well-known member

automeister

Active member

Member

Member

Member

Active member

Observer

Observer

Member

Six Gummi Bears and Some Scotch

Observer

Member

Genotype Sex Worker AKA strain whore

Genotype Sex Worker AKA strain whore