Neem Cake

CrushnYuba · Oct 23, 2018

Pauliewallie: the npk of the stuff i have seen is 6-1- 2. It's not that balanced. I was suggesting feather because it's a similar N breakdown time and cheap. How bout soybean meal at 7-1-2 as a replacement? Thats almost identical breakdown time as neem plus the protein in it is great. The only really balanced stuff i have seen are manures and i guess composts.

Douglascurtis: My symptoms were identical to one's reported. The thing that made me believe is the warm shower consistencies, as weird as that is. I spent hours in the shower. I chose a house based on the huge bathroom. I got a huge shower with built in bench seating. A separate enormous tub. I installed a second tankless water heater that only supplies that shower so i would have an endless supply of hot water that would not be affected by other household hot water use. I would be most sick in the morning. Allot of dry heaving and extreme nausea. Sometimes i vomited bile. I rarely vomited anything of substance. I tried all sorts of nausea medicines. Most days, i would lay in the shower for an hour in the am, smoking joints or using a flower vape and i would be ok for the rest of the day. Once in a while, i was sick for the entire day.

Douglas.Curtis · Oct 23, 2018

I hear you on the hot water. I literally spent about 6 months in a hot bath once. A fresh bath every time the tank heated back up. Tankless... Ahhhhhhh! lol

Did you ever experience hypothermia? Sudden chills so bad you thought you would die before you could get warm again? No environmental reason, just out of the blue. And, sorry if I missed it, I take it you're no longer using cannabis?

I still can't help but think there's a link missing, but I have to accept the possibility there is actually non-aza created CHS. With wickedly similar symptoms. In every other situation I've looked at, I've found neem or aza being used at some point or (in a few cases) there has been missing information regarding the cannabis.

In the last 7 years, everyone I've run across with CHS has had zero issues since eliminating neem/aza from their cannabis.

BoxGrower · Oct 23, 2018

Well, thanks for the replies, interesting stuff about CHS - I'm only fighting fungus gnatts, but i must have a solid nemotoad / mile population now because the few gnatts i had a few weeks ago never developed to anything.

I shan't be using neem tbf, there is a lot of conflicting stuff, and my soils are nearly three years old on an amended closed loop, i don't won't to risk NEEM MURDER DEATH KILL!

Thanks all for advice - I'll start a grow dairy and introduce you all to my box if as soon as this Black Dog shows

Elmer Bud · Oct 23, 2018

MJPassion said:
Doug has no studies to show you...
Big Fucking deal!

If he wants to take on trying to figure out WHY he was sick and has correlated it with neem... Who are you to question him?
Let him do what he thinks he needs to do!
Maybe something will be figured out because of HIS work.

He's NOT bothering you so why are you making every effort to stop what he is doing?

G `day MJP

With great power comes great responsibility .
Douglas aka the clean game . Is a good writer . Good writers can wield influence in this day and age .

Recently Shantibaba reposted Douglas`s blog post re CHS and Neem on the Mr Nice website forum.

Warned against using too much neem
. I called him out on it . A scientist reposting anecdotal evidence and then saying don`t use too much was ridiculous .

#1 Scientists do tests . Not read urban rumours then repost them on forums
. #2 How the fck much is too much .

Quackery .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Douglas.Curtis · Oct 24, 2018

Ahhh... good to know the word is getting out, and I appreciate the accolades.

@CrushnYuba We've hijacked this thread. Would you be so kind as to answer the last questions I had in another CHS thread instead?

I'm sure those looking for info on using neem cake would appreciate it.

Elmer Bud · Oct 24, 2018

Douglas.Curtis said:
Ahhh... good to know the word is getting out, and I appreciate the accolades.

@CrushnYuba We've hijacked this thread. Would you be so kind as to answer the last questions I had in another CHS thread instead?

I'm sure those looking for info on using neem cake would appreciate it.

G `day DC aka TCG

You just don`t get the irony .
Say it enough times = its truth ?

Thanks for sharin

EB .

ozzieAI · Oct 24, 2018

MJPassion said:
Doug has no studies to show you...
Big Fucking deal!

If he wants to take on trying to figure out WHY he was sick and has correlated it with neem... Who are you to question him?
Let him do what he thinks he needs to do!
Maybe something will be figured out because of HIS work.

He's NOT bothering you so why are you making every effort to stop what he is doing?

there is only ONE consistent fact about CHS that all cases report: that is the chronic use of cannabis...in this thread alone a member with CHS have stated they DON'T use neem...

if neem caused CHS then why haven't more people got CHS? plenty of growers use neem/aza products but the cases of CHS are thankfully very low compared to the growing/smoking population.

and again where is MY CHS? i use neem meal and neem oil on my plants and use it as insect repellent, rubbing it directly on my skin. I provide cannabis to those with poor health and compromised immune systems and they don't have CHS...

...and again, neem has been used for 1000's of years in agriculture and personal health and CHS is a very recent diagnoses...WHY?

Doug aka The Clean Game has been banned from IC previously he has been sprouting this nonsense for a while now and as EB mentioned his rantings have been picked up by numerous blogs, forums etc...it's FAKE news...

i doubt that i will be able to ever stop Dougy and his misinformation but surely i am 'allowed' to question and present opposing facts to his posts? if he was just looking out for himself it wouldn't be an issue but he is presenting this information as FACT with absolutely NO EVIDENCE to back it up...

DTOM420 · Oct 24, 2018

It’s not the concern about Neem that rubs folks the wrong way and it’s certainky not the concern for others that some people find irritating; it’s the putting forth of suspicion as fact and the personal experience as scientific evidence proving something. Words matter. Imagine the reaction had some been said like, “Hey, just to warn you, there’s been some concern lately that...and my personal experience has been..... Just wanted you to know so you can make an informed decision.” Instead of, “DONT USE IT - it’ll give you CHS and maybe kill you!’ Lol!

Maybe there is a connection between Neem and CHS; but given the incredibly widespread use of Neem and the statistically insignificant occurrence of CHS, implying that the connection is anything more than a fluke is irresponsible. IMO anyway. It’s tantamount to the old claim that cannabis is a “gateway drug” because a tiny fraction of the population has a highly overactive addiction gene. It seems likely that any connection that does actually exist is essentially an individual allergic reaction to some compound in in Neem. Just like people havevto peanuts or shellfish. Do we badmouth legumes and crustaceans because a tiny amount of the population suffers that unfortunate malady? Heck no. We pity those that have the issue and warn people that it’s always a possibility; but most of us still love dipping lobster meat in clarifies butter as often as we can afford! A little less hyperbole and a little more macro perspective would go a long way towards not rubbing people wrong. Especially for those that have used Neem extensively for long periods of time with ZERO issue.

Just a thought.

Douglas.Curtis · Oct 24, 2018

DTOM420 said:
It’s not the concern about Neem that rubs folks the wrong way and it’s certainky not the concern for others that some people find irritating; it’s the putting forth of suspicion as fact and the personal experience as scientific evidence proving something.

I've personally proved it, using a well designed and executed study. Multiple strains, control plants, multiple application methods. There is no 'speculation' on my part, whatsoever. What's more, I've spent 7 years since then studying people and their reactions. When the studies are done by accredited people, they'll be duplicating my results.

Again, you bring up how many safe studies there are with neem, on plants which do not absorb and hold the aza like cannabis does. Those safety studies are AMAZINGLY not relevant to this discussion.

The only thing I'm confused about is the ratio of aza:natural sufferers of CHS there are. I'm guessing significantly more from aza than natural. As I previously mentioned, nearly everyone I've come across with CHS has zero issues with 'clean' cannabis.

Douglas.Curtis · Oct 24, 2018

J-Icky said:
OK so my reply has nothing to do with Neem but the fact that you try to say you can smoke your clean cannabis 24/7 and still have clear lungs makes you come off questionable at best.

Missed this bit...

This is the difference between average and superior quality cannabis. When all I'm using is superior grown, doctors are amazed when I tell them I've been smoking 24/7 for years on end. They don't believe I smoke almost 24/7, their education says it's not possible for me to have lungs this clear.

Lately I haven't had access to such quality and I'm coughing, hacking up grey phlem in the shower, and all the other lung function problems which come with regular grown. Same thing I dealt with before learning how to grow seriously clean cannabis. If you're growing hydro, the link in my sig is a great start on the same path.

Smith111 · Oct 24, 2018

Neem has been used for a long time, for many reasons. It's good stuff.

CrushnYuba · Oct 24, 2018

I didn't mean to do any hijacking and i am going to check out those chs threads. I would love to hear and s share information to try to figure out this desiese over there. I was not aware there were chs threads and i never heard of the neem correlation until this thread.
Unfortunately cannabis Has always been filled with old wives tales. Very little science and a whole lot of speculation because of the legal state. People hear something and they repeat it as fact. Like fem seeds hermie or the like.
I was always under the impression that neem was pretty safe although i have never used it. I am not against using it if this its an old wives tale.

I am interested in neem meal to prevent soil Bugs. Exactly how much needs to be used for only this purpous? I can Get nutrients more balanced and cheaper from other sources. Will it kill beneficial life?

wetdog · Oct 24, 2018

CrushnYuba said:
I am interested in neem meal to prevent soil Bugs. Exactly how much needs to be used for only this purpous? I can Get nutrients more balanced and cheaper from other sources. Will it kill beneficial life?

For that purpose, 1/2 to 1cup max/cf is plenty. Mix it globally when constructing the mix.

Does no harm to beneficials.

Wet

ozzieAI · Oct 25, 2018

I've spent 7 years since then studying people and their reactions. When the studies are done by accredited people, they'll be duplicating my results.

i did the exercise a while ago: where are these people and why don't tell anyone via any of the social media apps?

i couldn't find ONE person claiming to have 'cured' their CHS by following DC/TCG methods...not one...why is that?

if these 'accredited' people were doing tests then what accreditation do they have?
where do they work and what equipment do they use to test their results?
where do they publish their results?

come on Dougy...it's your time to shine...or not...

CrushnYuba · Oct 25, 2018

So neemseed meal does not kill beneficial nematodes or worms, but prevents ants, termites, etc? Is there really enough oils in it to do much?

Microbeman · Oct 25, 2018

Douglas.Curtis said:
I've personally proved it, using a well designed and executed study. Multiple strains, control plants, multiple application methods. There is no 'speculation' on my part, whatsoever. What's more, I've spent 7 years since then studying people and their reactions. When the studies are done by accredited people, they'll be duplicating my results.

Again, you bring up how many safe studies there are with neem, on plants which do not absorb and hold the aza like cannabis does. Those safety studies are AMAZINGLY not relevant to this discussion.

The only thing I'm confused about is the ratio of aza:natural sufferers of CHS there are. I'm guessing significantly more from aza than natural. As I previously mentioned, nearly everyone I've come across with CHS has zero issues with 'clean' cannabis.

Sorry if I am behind on this but could you start by pointing me to some scientific literature indicating cannabis plants and I presume some other related species propensity for 'absorption' of azadirachtins at higher rates than other species?

Perhaps it could be used for male birth control

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/azadirachtin-ext.html

ozzieAI · Oct 25, 2018

CrushnYuba said:
So neemseed meal does not kill beneficial nematodes or worms, but prevents ants, termites, etc? Is there really enough oils in it to do much?

i find that the pressed neem cake tends to have more oil that the ground meal but both work for me to stop ants and termites from invading my outdoor pots. i still find worms in my pots and generally have happy plants...

i ran this experiment with neem oil a while back: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=260048

Microbeman · Oct 26, 2018

CrushnYuba said:
So neemseed meal does not kill beneficial nematodes or worms, but prevents ants, termites, etc? Is there really enough oils in it to do much?

It is supposed to only effect the insects which chew on the plant as it supposedly works systemically and residually. Therefore it is not supposed to effect predatory insects.

aridbud · Oct 26, 2018

DTOM420 said:
I can’t swear to it but I believe Neem Cake would compost rather quickly. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable than me will confirm. Subscibed to get a final answer.

Do you have any documentation related to that claim? I can’t find any documented connection between Neem and CHS. Seems like it’s gotten popular to slam on Neem lately but it’s been used in agriculture for a very long time without any issues. I’m not arguing but I hear people making claims and can never find any documentation. So, it feels more like stoner science more than actual science. To each their own, fo sho! Personally, I’m gonna keep using Neem until I see some sort of scientific proof that there’s a problem with it.

Thanks for the tip on Gnat Nix! Sounds like great product.

Are you kidding me??? Douglas.Curtis is spot on 100% of the time. Very knowledgeable in tips and understanding how to control pests and mold, etc.

You might want to read through his posts before making a judgement call. Others have provided info on neem cake. Just because it's organic doesn't mean it's safe.

Here's a blurb from a blog:

https://coloradocannabistours.com/marijuana-legalization/cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome-part-5/
.......After doing a good handful of research, a few case studies have surfaced to offer an alternative explanation for the spontaneous emergence of CHS.

A solid alternative theory to CHS could be explained as being poisoned. Specifically, poisoned by a pesticide that was sprayed directly on the cannabis plant. More specifically, there is a molecule that could be causing all the problems associate with the “new” clinical condition, and this molecule is called Azadirachtin, derived from Neem Oil.

What could actually be going on is toxicity poisoning via “organic” pesticides with the molecule Azadirachtin, in it.

What is Azadirachtin, specifically?

Azadirachtin is a molecule that is in many products, used for insect control on your cannabis plant. Although the product, that contains Azadirachtin, isn’t specifically labeled to use on cannabis, for some reason cannabis growers began using this stuff left and right, because it’s labeled organic and safe.

This Azadirachtin molecule was said to be synthesized over 10 years ago. Very interestingly, this molecule is OMRI certified organic. Just because it’s labeled organic doesn’t mean it is safe to use, however you want to use it. Although being organic “should” mean that it is natural and safe?

Microbeman · Oct 26, 2018

I'm not defending azadirachtins, nor am I big on using pesticides but a 'blog'? This is how myths are perpetuated. I'm interested if there are some actual properly conducted studies to read.

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