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Calculating Nutrient profiles for Canna, GH and PBP Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-10-2006, 06:44 PM #11
Lucas
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GH has LESS potassium than canna or PB

> Here is a quote from MyNamisStich def thread with regards to high K levels and why the K proportion in the PBPro and Canna are lower than most.

The K levels in PBP and Canna are actually higher than in GH

The recipe with the lowest K and highest Mg is from GH, not Canna nor PB

The recipe with the most P in it is also GH, not canna nor PB

> When you have "too much" Potassium in your soil

how much is "too much"?

I believe K levels become a problem above 400ppm, none of the recipes show that level

notice stich is talking about soil, where nutes accumulate more and more over time

In hydro, nute levels should NOT be accumulating higher and higher over time as they can in soil or coco.

The highest K level is in the Canna Coco and Canna Aqua, over 300ppm, GH and PB stay close to 200ppm

Canna is notorious for needing epsom salt to add Mg. Pure blend was the same way, until they came out with Cal mag and sweet, both of which are Mg boosters.

Lets focus on the K (Potassium) and Mg levels in GH, Canna, and PBP

GH FloraNovaBloom 180ppm of K, plus 62ppm of Mg
Canna Coco with the PK 13-14 boost they recommend; 317ppm of K, 42ppm of Mg
Canna Aqua Flores 316ppm of K, 42ppm of Mg
PBPBloom with Cal mag 214ppm of K, 45ppm of Mg

in EVERY case, there is LESS potassium in GH than in Canna or PB

afaict, Canna and PB work DESPITE having MORE Potassium, and less Mg than GH

Canna uses 3 products, A, B, plus epsom
PB uses 2 products
GH Flora uses 2 products
GH Flora Nova uses only 1 product

how many products would you like to be using to supply your plant nutrition needs?:-)

Lucas
__________________
pH's spreadsheet https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/premixppm3b.zip
Spreadsheet values of Canna, GH, and PureBlendPro recipes https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21119
Getting started in hydro https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21117
Calculating Nutrient levels https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21254
Against Bubblers https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=26021
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Old 02-12-2006, 08:28 AM #12
domokun
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does epsom salts need to be added to canna aqua flora during flower, or just veg? i notice my system with canna in it produces very light green leafs.. plants will come out of the veg room with gh flora nova being really dark green then turn very light when exposed to the canna..
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:12 AM #13
Dandy Don
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Lucas;

If you still have the nutrient reservoir add-back information, from the CW days, could you start another thread with this information? A lot of folks, on both sides of the Atlantic, either need a review, from time to time, or the information they may never have had access to prior to now. I'm adding back to my aero reservoir when it gets down by about 5 gallons, adding back 1/3 strength Flora Nova Bloom. My second setup is a dwc scrog, with 6 plants to run under a 400, with this one I intend on using an automatic float valve, topping up with 1/3 strength, as and when it needs it.

Lothar of OG;

I remember your 5 tube aero setup, where you said you used Flora Nova Bloom, almost exclusively now. I cannot, for obvious reasons, go back to re-read those threads, could you post what ppm levels you set your reservoir at, and when it needs topping up, how high do the tds levels climb, before you top them up, to the original levels? In my experience, the FNB is rock solid in pH, only changing slightly, as the tds levels climb, as the water/nutrients are consumed. In my books, stability is worth everything, the girls are really healthy looking, but do suffer a bit from N deficiency, before I top the res up, every 10 days or so.

tks to both of you...........DD
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:03 AM #14
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Dandy, when I'm using the FN, I keep veg levels to around 450-500 ppm (.5 conversion) and 900-1000 ppm in full flower. For mothers I keep things at around 500 full time in hydro.
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:52 AM #15
Dandy Don
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Lothar;

Thank you for those numbers, muchly appreciated. I've been running about 50-100 ppm lower than these numbers, now I feel safe to bump them up a tad.

DD
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Old 02-21-2006, 02:34 AM #16
Lucas
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canna + epsom, yes, addback 33% to 100%, try more N at begin Bloom, use full strength

> does epsom salts need to be added to canna aqua flora during flower, or just veg?

both formulas benefit from adding 1/4 tsp epsom (it adds 25ppm of Mg),

the Mg level of Vega is 35ppm, the Flores is at 42ppm.. I aim for 60-70ppm of Mg...

> still have the nutrient reservoir add-back information, from the CW days

no sorry, but, the concept is that if you keep the EC close to original levels, say 2.0, you dont need to dump your res for the life of the crop

some nutes like FloraNovaBloom, work with 33% addback strength

PBPBloom and FloraNovaGrow need higher strength in the addback, approaching 100%.. depends on the res size to light size ratio too

> a bit from N deficiency, before I top the res up, every 10 days

A current experiment that is producing encouraging results is to use FloraNovaGrow @EC 2.0 when starting a crop, topped with FloraNovaBloom for all the addbacks for the life of the crop.

Using nutes at levels below 2.0 is a good idea if the plants are under weak light in the <3500fc range, as from fluoros.

I find plant can use the full 2.0 EC even small plants, IF the light is intense, in the >3500fc range, as from HPS.

good to see the familiar handles
Lucas
__________________
pH's spreadsheet https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/premixppm3b.zip
Spreadsheet values of Canna, GH, and PureBlendPro recipes https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21119
Getting started in hydro https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21117
Calculating Nutrient levels https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21254
Against Bubblers https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=26021
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:05 PM #17
Lucas
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Comparing the nutes elements per crop life with PBP and GH formulas.

Comparing the nutes elements per crop life with PBP and GH formulas.

This data is derived from calculating the total nutes required for a 40 gallon reservoir. For example, 15ml/gal times 40 equals 600ml of PBPBloom.

GrowGreen, who belonged to the gram a watt club, found she could use a fixed quantity of nutes per crop life. She dosed 50% of the total PBPBloom when starting a fresh reservoir of nutes at the beginning of 12/12.

Then at day 21 of 12/12, she would add in the remaing 300ml PBPB, plus the 200ml Cal Mag. 40 gallon res, ebb flow 6" pots of rox, 28 plants per 1k, with CO2 enhancement.

Using pH's spreadsheet, 600ml of PBPB plus 200ml of CalMag has the following Total NPK and Mg

GrowGreen's Formula 15PBPBloom 5Cal Mag
N 6420
P 1797
K 8552
Mg 1791

comparing the total NPK and Mg values in the above mix to the ones below, what stands out for me is the very low level of P in the PBP formula, and the low Mg level

conversely, what stands out about the Lucas formula is the low N level, and it has less K also

The original GH factory bloom recipe is higher in N than any of the other recipes, but we already know that the lower N level of the Lucas Formula also works. In the same sense, we know the low P level in PBP works too.

so I would say the hi-lo ranges of NPK and Mg in ALL of these formulas work. That is to say, the plant does not care if there is plus or minus certain amounts of NPK and Mg, even the huge percentage difference in P

otoh, IF the goal is to hit a ratio of 1-1-2 in NPK, the general hydro formulas come closest to doing that from a single bottle of ingredients. I find the FloraNova series very convenient.

General Hydro 5g-10m-15b
N 7659
P 4227
K 10050
Mg 3026

Lucas Formula (actually developed by pH) 8micro 16bloom
N 5186
P 4235
K 7311
Mg 2914

LucasNova Formula 8mlFloraNovaBloom per gallon
N 4960
P 4325
K 7204
Mg 2480

LucasNova Formula 10mlFloraNovaBloom per gallon
N 6200
P 5406
K 9005
Mg 3100
__________________
pH's spreadsheet https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/premixppm3b.zip
Spreadsheet values of Canna, GH, and PureBlendPro recipes https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21119
Getting started in hydro https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21117
Calculating Nutrient levels https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21254
Against Bubblers https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=26021
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:30 PM #18
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Howdy Lucas, the FNB/FLB is working well here still, better since I started doing my addback without adjusting the ph down into the zone. So my add back at 1/3 is 7+ ph. This has kept my ladies from bottoming out better, and I use just a bit of epsom on the girls that ask for it. I truely can not imagine the need to find any other nute solution for dwc, if my buds get any tastier, I will morph into a spice navigator and start folding space and time.
H
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:06 PM #19
Neptune
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bump.
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Old 04-15-2006, 02:05 AM #20
meduser180056
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Thanks for the awesome info Lucas. I'm learning alot from your threads.

I use PBPB in Sunshine mix which is similiar to pro-mix. Basically a no fert soil.

I was planning on trying your formula, but then I realized that you were basing your calculations off the PBPBloom Hydro formula which is different then the one I use.

I use PBPB soil formula which is 1.5-4-5. So I downloaded the PH's spreadsheet and I think I came up with a good mix. The liquid Karma might not be necessary, but I have a bottle so why not? It does raise PPMs significantly though so a lighter dose might be better. The 10ml of Cal-mag is necessary for the Nitrogen and the Magnesium cuz the soil bloom formula has less nitrogen.

So here it is:

15ml PBPBsoil
10ml Cal-Mag
10ml Liquid Karma
2.5ml Pro-Tekt Silica

This gives you:
115
72
195
51

This mix comes out to about 1.8ec. I use tap water.
I have really good tap water that is around 40ppms.

Does that sound about right?
Also should I only water with 1/3rd strength everytime since I'm in soil?
What should the EC/ppm be of the nute mix when using a fertless soil?
I'd like to feed with every watering.

Hope that mix helps someone out there.
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