Fusarium or verticillium?

TheOutlawTree · Mar 23, 2015

Crusader Rabbit said:
Wow, a quick search shows that barley and clover are both hammered by forms of fusarium. Finding suitable companion plants may not be simple. But an interesting study! Some vetches have been found to reduce fusarium wilt in watermelons when grown as a cover crop.

http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/php/research/2010/vetch/

Hairy Vetch seed is readily available in small quantities for use as a cover crop. It's interesting though that Johnny's Seeds mentions the Hairy Vetch as possibly having "allopathic properties" (chemically suppresses surrounding plants), which possibly might affect a co-growing cannabis.

Nice read, good to know. I was planning on running a cover crop next year during the summers outdoor grow. It appears the hairy vetch worked as a dead (tilled in) cover crop grown before the season starts. I would think some living cover crops would work as well. I suppose its best to avoid clover if its greatly affected by fusarium.

Can anyone recommend an alternative to Caps Root pack for a good benny? Im thinking Xtreme Gardening Mykos WP as its cheap and i can buy in bulk. Im going to plan on brewing small aerated compost tea's daily in my reservoirs next round so I can re-use my de-humidifier water. I cant use the root pack because of the Talc Carrier sediment that's in the packs, as im brewing directly in my reservoirs.

I will also be purchasing the Excel Air - UV Air Purification System for my 5-Ton A/C. Im hoping it will help kill more spores.

Going to be buying my full face and body protection suit this week as I will plan on spraying physan 20 on all surface area's, and hydro tables. Will also do a round of 10% bleach solution and maybe even a third with h202 solution.

TheOutlawTree · Mar 23, 2015

RetroGrow said:
Automated flood and drain + perpetual=perfect environment for fusarium spores.
Solution, IMO?
Lightwarrior in Solos, transplanted to Hempys with coco. You only need 2 gallon buckets to grow huge plants. Water/feed daily to run off, replacing the tiny rez with freshly oxygenated solution. Plants love it. Can also be set up with drippers, although I prefer hand watering, but don't have large plant numbers. I could see how it would be a hassle to hand water 100 plants. So you have mycorrhizae + trichoderma preventing fusarium from ever getting established. Hempys=foolproof. Of course, room has to be cleaned before setup. Perpetuals tend to more easily lead to problems, as you never tear the room down and start over. When popping seeds, you might want to dip in Mycostop before planting in Lightwarrior if you're really paranoid. Steam cleaning, or heating your room to 140F will kill all spores before starting.

Can you recommend an easy way to get my room up to 140 degrees? I guess it would be a lot easier to kill the spores with heat other than spraying chemicals everywhere. I've got a propane salamander but I'm pretty sure it shuts off automatically after a certain degree or amount of carbon monoxide in the air.

I would still spray all hydro tables regardless but heat would be
great for surface areas.

Thcvhunter · Mar 24, 2015

Go on amazon and buy that 35% hydrogen peroxide. Fuck all the carcinogenic fungicides.
H2O2 kills EVERYTHING.
Wear goggles so you dont go blind.

Fusarium is super easy to kill with H2O2.
This isnt the end if the world.

Im not saying to take my word for gospel, but i got hit by Fusarium, cleaned, restarted, and havent had any problems.
(Though, honestly, many growers have recovered from Fusarium. Instead of talking to grow store guys, talk to the veteran growers/owners of nurseries)

Oh i do use Common Vetch in my containers and my compost piles. Awesome piece of nature. No matter how deep there planted they will survive, lol

Thcvhunter · Mar 26, 2015

Minccia, I had a nice long, well worded post typed out on my phone yesterday and then the battery died and I lost all those words....
But what I wanted to talk about was using low levels of Nitrogen.

I was walking my dog yesterday and noticed spittle on a tree, reminding me of spittle bugs.
I got spittle bugs back in that same year I got the Fusarium. As per Rev's teachings I was using shitloads of Nitrogen to "get those microbeasties booming". Well I had too much N and Nature was telling me so by giving me spittle bugs to help relieve my plants from the excess Nitrogen. Then eventually I had too much N and not enough O2. That anaerobia helped spawn the Fusarium.

I started following Snow (Snowhigh) and how he grows and my plants have been the healthiest ever. Snow recommends using barely any foods at all - very much along the lines of growing heirloom sativas. But even my Indicas are loving it.

So a good preventative against bad fungi would be to lower Nitrogen (and all fetrilizers) while maintaining high mineral levels.

Best of luck

RetroGrow · Mar 27, 2015

TheOutlawTree said:
Can you recommend an easy way to get my room up to 140 degrees? I guess it would be a lot easier to kill the spores with heat other than spraying chemicals everywhere. I've got a propane salamander but I'm pretty sure it shuts off automatically after a certain degree or amount of carbon monoxide in the air.

I would still spray all hydro tables regardless but heat would be
great for surface areas.

http://pestheat.com/

These go to 150 degrees. Will kill everything in the room. Broad mites, fungi, spores, everything. They are used to kill bedbugs commercially. Not sure how much they cost, but this would solve your problem without a doubt, with no chemicals necessary. You can buy different setups, depending on the size you need. Or, you can call them up and have them do it, but that would be a security risk, IMO.

TheOutlawTree · Mar 27, 2015

That looks legit!

Ill look into it and get ahold of those guys, thanks for the link!

panick503 · Mar 27, 2015

Was looking at that company for heaters to, they are ridiculously expensive, like several thousand dollars if I remember correctly. All for a heater with out a shut off switch.. there's got to be a cheaper quality heater that can do the job, but im still looking for it..

mojave green · Mar 27, 2015

panick503 said:
Was looking at that company for heaters to, they are ridiculously expensive, like several thousand dollars if I remember correctly. All for a heater with out a shut off switch.. there's got to be a cheaper quality heater that can do the job, but im still looking for it..

this little unit has heat/cool modes.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300532
rated 10A. remote temp probe about 3' long.
:tiphat:

TheOutlawTree · Mar 28, 2015

panick503 said:
Was looking at that company for heaters to, they are ridiculously expensive, like several thousand dollars if I remember correctly. All for a heater with out a shut off switch.. there's got to be a cheaper quality heater that can do the job, but im still looking for it..

Yeah.. I got ahold of them today... 8.5k for the system. He said they are for people who want to start a business and training is included in price. Not really interested in it, for now.

120Octane · Mar 28, 2015

Mycostop its not chems its bacteria. It may take couple applications but should put a hurt on it the first time. Its not miracle over nite its over but a week apply again. End of the week things should be under control and starting to ease up. Second application ensures those bacteria are able to thrive and keep working. 4 weeks from first application use as a prevenative.

120Octane · Mar 28, 2015

Only way to cook the dirt is with turkey bags in your oven. Make sure the soil is moist. Fill bags leave top open. Put 1 rack in last notch in the oven. Keep bags off the sidewalls of the oven. Put oven on lowest heat maybe 160 or 180F it doesnt matter. Put bags in let them cook 12 hours. Once they cool off so can handle dump in a tote and drech with full strength compost tea, add admendments, let it rest a week with seed mat in center of the pile then use it. Bring home fresh bag from the store cook it first before use.

Coir you can turn hot water heater to max. Put coir in a flood tray fill withhot water. 45 minutes later drain the water. Repeat for 8 hours.

If can get cuts off plants you have and use myco stop in the cloner or the soil used to clone you may save those plants, not promising anything.

Be sure to use hot water and clean the room every crack,crevivice,equipment. Change the water frequently to reduce spore count. Heres the kicker about indoors. If you are using ac without a UV bulb in the coil on the air handler guess what could be in it? Spores. If you get anal and clean the room every other day with dehuyes going nonstop, apply physan 20 as a mist on evey surface on the room on day 7, pasturize your medium use differant cuts and still have it then you gota replace the ac coil and duct work, clean the room again before you start the ac. Spores get everywhete on everything, dont forget to shower before go in your grow area fusarium may of been on your clothes and were transfered in by you.

120Octane · Mar 28, 2015

Get a UV bulb in your ac coil now reguardless

Thcvhunter · Mar 28, 2015

Lol, the sky is falling!!!!

Bad spores are EVERYWHERE. Dont worry about them -- if spores really were that devastating then cannabis would be thirty years extinct by now. All you have to do is make sure your environment is not suitable for the bad spores which means kepping your soil from ever getting cold as well as keeping Nitrogen levels low or at least reasonable.

Has anyone else actually succeeded in beating Fusarium Oxysporum or is everyone just shouting out random advice ?

120Octane · Mar 29, 2015

I did beat it. Replaced the coil after 6 months fighting it, put UV bulbs in the coil. Cleaned the room, pasturized the pro mix. What I stated above is how I beat it.

moses wellfleet · Mar 29, 2015

Thcvhunter said:
Lol, the sky is falling!!!!

Bad spores are EVERYWHERE. Dont worry about them -- if spores really were that devastating then cannabis would be thirty years extinct by now. All you have to do is make sure your environment is not suitable for the bad spores which means kepping your soil from ever getting cold as well as keeping Nitrogen levels low or at least reasonable.

Has anyone else actually succeeded in beating Fusarium Oxysporum or is everyone just shouting out random advice ?

So the way I understand it, Fusarium can be compared to Athlete's foot in humans?

Fungal spores exist everywhere waiting to infect your feet. But the fungus can only take hold if the right environment exists, ie not drying your feet after bathing resulting in soggy feet in shoes and socks all day, moist, warm stale environment.

keep your feet dry and well ventilated and you will never know Athlete's foot!

Ganja baba · Mar 29, 2015

Build a massive production line of tricoderma in your soils as long as the tricoderma is more dominate , the fusarium or Pythium won't win . I've only ever had a problem with these in soiless Mediums mainly nft . My advise if you have it switch to coco with added trichodrrma and its should save your plants , well some of them . Even a ph pen or nute stick will pass it on . Any thing that was in the room will have it and probably keep infecting the plants for years . Well that was my experience some 15 years ago . May be stuff has changed since then

TheOutlawTree · Mar 29, 2015

moses wellfleet said:
So the way I understand it, Fusarium can be compared to Athlete's foot in humans?

Fungal spores exist everywhere waiting to infect your feet. But the fungus can only take hold if the right environment exists, ie not drying your feet after bathing resulting in soggy feet in shoes and socks all day, moist, warm stale environment.

keep your feet dry and well ventilated and you will never know Athlete's foot!

A lot of people have said "The spores are everywhere these days", but I would assume that once you have an entire crop get fusarium oxysporum the spores are in extremely high numbers everywhere around your growing space, which probably makes it a little harder to get rid of and clean everything.

Also- The conditions in my growing space are pretty ideal. Its a sealed room that's climate controlled and I never water log my plants. I think its more of a contact thing with fusarium, touch one plant that's infected and touch another and it spreads as far as I know. In my case where every single plant was infected It had to have been because of the way they were all started in the EZ cloner, sharing one reservoir- they were all infected from the very beginning of their lives.

Fusarium oxysporum really sucks because you don't know the plants have it until early / middle flower. I think the only way to find out if the plant has it, is to sacrifice the plant and send the stalk / roots / crown of plant into the lab.

Thcvhunter · Mar 30, 2015

There are other ways to see if the plant has Fusarium.
The xylem will be slightly colored. Once advanced, the roots can be colored too.
Dampening off of sprouts is another sign of Fusarium.

RetroGrow · Mar 30, 2015

TheOutlawTree said:
A lot of people have said "The spores are everywhere these days", but I would assume that once you have an entire crop get fusarium oxysporum the spores are in extremely high numbers everywhere around your growing space, which probably makes it a little harder to get rid of and clean everything.

Also- The conditions in my growing space are pretty ideal. Its a sealed room that's climate controlled and I never water log my plants. I think its more of a contact thing with fusarium, touch one plant that's infected and touch another and it spreads as far as I know. In my case where every single plant was infected It had to have been because of the way they were all started in the EZ cloner, sharing one reservoir- they were all infected from the very beginning of their lives.

Fusarium oxysporum really sucks because you don't know the plants have it until early / middle flower. I think the only way to find out if the plant has it, is to sacrifice the plant and send the stalk / roots / crown of plant into the lab.

Well, fusarium spores are in all soil, so if you're in soil, there are spores there. However, whether or not they take hold is another story. If your plants immune system is on high alert, and you have beneficial microorganisms that kill fusarium, you won't get it. Aspirin is a must, IMO. Trichoderma will kill fusarium. Coco has trichoderma in it naturally, so you are much less likely to get it in coco. If you use Actinovate, or OG Biowar, it will never take hold.
Also, heating your space between runs to 140F, as stated previously, will kill the spores. This can be done by a combination of leaving the lights on with no A/C or fans, and adding space heaters until you get to the desired temperature. Most new space heaters have thermistors, which must be disabled in order to prevent the temperature from being limited. Older ones don't have them. How many space heaters you may need depends on the size of your space, outdoor temperatures, etc.

Thcvhunter · Mar 31, 2015

Skip the Asprin (risky) and add a 1/4 tsp of aloe powder to each watering immediately before watering

Fusarium or verticillium?

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