Mites in the rootzone

I have been experiencing some problems and the common factor seems to be bugs that look like these in the root zone.

the bugs are so small i can't even count how many legs they have when looking through a 30X loupe.

the pics above i found from a search and look most like what i see in the rootzone of my plants. i have some pics i took with my phone camera through the loupe. they are not good quality but you can see how small they are next to a fungal gnat larva.


i have seen these bugs in rockwool, dwc, and now coco.

the pics above i believe are tyrophagus putrescentiae but im not sure if that is exactly what i have. in the loupe i can see the long hairlike strands coming from the side and rear of the bugs. i have not read much information on them yet but i have definitely not heard of them doing any damage to plants or feeding on roots.

has anyone seen these things or know what they are? people have told me they are harmless soil mites but can those live and thrive in DWC environment with only lucas formula?

i should also mentioned i read through the broad mite thread and have no symptoms like described there and have seen no bugs outside the rootzone apart from the gnats.

do they jump when you water?..they could be springtails they are supposed to be harmless...or if not they could be the dreaded root aphids?

I have never seen them jump. You can barely see them with the naked eye.

I thought they were root aphids for a long time and treated them for everything under the sun for aphids and nothing really phased them

Spend $15-20 for higher powered loupe...
To fight the enemy... First identify the enemy.

How about pics of the rest of the plant?

First pic are soil mites... they are correct. Root aphids are much bigger... and kill off ur plants.

Second pic also has springtails in it... bigger, longer, slender ones. Assuming that came from the net as well.

http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/concepts/soil_biology/arthropods.html

Builtaforest said:

Spend $15-20 for higher powered loupe...
To fight the enemy... First identify the enemy.

How about pics of the rest of the plant?

Click to expand...

i ordered a usb microscope and it should be here in a few days. i can see them with the 30X i just cant get a good pic of them. they look just like the top two pics. ill post some better pics when i receive the usb scope.

ill also post some pics of the damage.

listen to MI way hes spot on... both of them bugs are also considered beneficial.....

MIway said:

First pic are soil mites... they are correct. Root aphids are much bigger... and kill off ur plants.

Second pic also has springtails in it... bigger, longer, slender ones. Assuming that came from the net as well.

http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/concepts/soil_biology/arthropods.html

Click to expand...

im not sure which pic you are referring to when you say the first one. i have been told these are harmless soil mites but when i look at images online of soil mites they dont look like what i am seeing in the soil.

if the top two pics are soil mites then that is what i have. are these harmful to the plant? is it possible for these to exist in large numbers on rockwool cubes or in DWC with lucas formula and tap water only?

i'll try to make this short but i think the background info is needed to rule some things out. i have been growing about 15yrs and several in the 2 rooms i am using now with good results. one day some guys with badges came and i think they really like to smoke and grow and they took all my bud and plants and borrowed all my equipment which they have not returned yet....

when i was able to start again i put the rooms back the way i always grew which was rockwool flood and drain trays, couple 600w hps in flower, t5 and 400mh in veg, nat gas co2 w/monitor&controller, environmental controller, temps mid 80s, humidity 50-60%, sealed rooms. i was only able to get some clones to start again from a stranger as no one wanted to help me after the incident. the clones came with spider mites and thrips which i got rid of both but even though i did everything the same as many years before, i had huge problems.

before i found these bugs, i thought there was something in the atmosphere of the rooms like off gassing or something because i could not see any bugs anywhere or any other obvious problems. i changed co2 burners, bought new co2 monitor. then i thought it was something in the water when none of those changes made a difference so i tried using filtered instead of tap like i always used. i changed nutrient solutions from pure blend pro to GH 3 part and lucas formula, ionic, and now onto house and garden. same problems every time. i also changes mediums from rockwool to DWC and now to coco and the exact same problems.

in the vegetative stage things aren't so bad but there is what always looks like a Mg deficiency and the plants always stretch and never get very hearty and thick/dense. the nodes are very far apart and the branches are always thin and weak compared to what a normal plant should look like. here are the first symptoms in veg stage:

i have tried a dozen different strains over the last year+ and they all have the same symptoms, some are affected more than others and some will not survive at all. when i first saw these signs i tried different nutrient profiles and testing with adding more Mg but that never made any difference.

in veg some plants look like they will be really good but when they hit 3-4 week period in flowering and they go downhill. some have nice roots sticking out before i see the bugs all in the root zone.

when they get to that 3rd to 4th week and beyond the tips of the leaves turn brown no matter what nutrient strength i tested them at, the leaves from the tips moving inwards will get very thin like paper and turn necrotic. they are very sensitive to intense light and heat although these problems will also arise at temps 78 degrees and far from the lights as i have tested it. the leaves look like light damage but this happens at the top and bottom of the plant and there does not appear to be a pattern of moving up or downward. as time goes on they get more thin and dry each day.


the plants are always very stretched out and are incredibly weak - they have tiny popcorn buds and the branches still collapse. the trichomes never turn amber even if i let the plant go weeks after they would normally be done. bud is not really even smokable - i just try to make oil out of what i can. they seem to go to a certain point in flowering then stop growing. by the end the roots are almost non-existent in the coco recently. any roots like pictured above are all gone when those bugs are around. they seem to eat all the tiny hairs and herring bone types branches off from what i saw when i had them in DWC. the main root was still there but it was like overcooked spaghetti with no tiny hairs or any branches.

here is a pic at the end.

i thought for a long time they were root aphids but every treatment i tried for those produced the same results.

i shut everything down for a month before but when i started i had the problems again. i will be shutting the garden down from october to january again but i would love to solve my problem before that so i can start fresh next year.

if you are in veg and want to kill the bugs hit it with the same shit you kill root aphids with... imid.

have you flushed your plants and checked the runoff ec and ph??

I was going to say seems like a pH issue if the leaves are getting a crisped paper like texture / feel....


dank.Frank

i found some older pics from when i was in DWC. this strain was good in veg but 3-4 weeks of flower and it went to shit.


in dwc the ph was 5.5-5.8 in veg and 5.8-6.0 in flower.

Are you certain those are spring tails and not grubs??? In your first pictures...

Not sure how you would get grubs indoors, but...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38909&pictureid=919995


dank.Frank

poopyteabags i have not flushed the coco plants and checked the runoff. i will do that and post the results. what solution should i use to flush them? they are in 3 gal smart pots.

i have used imid and actually tested it on many plants i knew i was going to trash and it does not kill these guys.

dank frank - i hope it is just a ph problem! i have been using fairly cheap ph meters for at least 10yrs and never had any problems. i did however get a brand new blue labs ph pen today in the mail which is much better quality than what i had before. i tested it against the older one i had but it was pretty close - just 0.1 off the blue labs at 5.8.

Maybe you are dealing with some sort of off gassing from a hose or a plastic or some other environmental agent / factor - and it has nothing at all to do with nutrition, PPM/EC, or the bugs...

It seems odd to me you would experience the same symptoms in multiple methods - it must be environmental...


dank.Frank

I think the symptoms are enough to diagnose root aphids. Check the root aphid sticky. Good luck. -granger

dank.frank said:

Are you certain those are spring tails and not grubs??? In your first pictures...

Not sure how you would get grubs indoors, but...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38909&pictureid=919995


dank.Frank

Click to expand...

the long slender bugs and the curved one are exactly the same. i believe they are fungal gnat larvae. they look just like this pic with a black head. and the more little mite like bugs there are, the more gnat larvae and adults are around.