Planning a long term bed : question about Coco Coir/Sphagnum Peat and Aeration

i planned to build a medium and bury it in the soil for a long term with no-till (possibly)

i made my experiment in 1 square meter for 3 years and now i wanna make it bigger surfaces

my formula is
25% EWC
25% Soil of the place where buried
25% Perlite/Lapillis
25% Coco Coir/Sphagnum Peat
plus all the amendments

i will consider to add also some small % of BioChar

here the point of my question :
if i use Coco Coir/Sphagnum Peat after 1-2-3 years they will dissolve/degrade until disappear so they loose the ability to create a lighter and breathable medium; in order to avoid to Till the ground what u suggest me to do ?

last question about Aeration:
i have to bury this medium mix in a field in the countryside and then cover with some Straw like Synergistic/Permaculture Style, do you suggest me to use Perlite/Lapillis or you have better ideas for ?

thx

Vaporizando192 said:

i planned to build a medium and bury it in the soil for a long term with no-till (possibly)

i made my experiment in 1 square meter for 3 years and now i wanna make it bigger surfaces

my formula is
25% EWC
25% Soil of the place where buried
25% Perlite/Lapillis
25% Coco Coir/Sphagnum Peat
plus all the amendments

i will consider to add also some small % of BioChar

here the point of my question :
if i use Coco Coir/Sphagnum Peat after 1-2-3 years they will dissolve/degrade until disappear so they loose the ability to create a lighter and breathable medium; in order to avoid to Till the ground what u suggest me to do ?

last question about Aeration:
i have to bury this medium mix in a field in the countryside and then cover with some Straw like Synergistic/Permaculture Style, do you suggest me to use Perlite/Lapillis or you have better ideas for ?

thx

Click to expand...

i forgot
i can bury the mix or create a raised bed

You would have to tell us if you have clay like soil or sandy soil or what...

If you have clay soil, you would have to mix in some larger pieces of inert material to maintain good drainage and aeration. Some folks will use small river rocks or lava rocks or very large chunks of perlite. The normal small/medium size perlite pieces may not be good enough for a clay type soil.

The peat moss will most likely break down depending on soil conditions. The coco coir is less likely to break down as quickly. Keep in mind peat moss is acidic. You should sample your current soil in your area to tell us if it's acidic or alkaline. You don't want to add too much peat moss to an already acidic soil without adding lime or something to alkalize the peat moss.

If you have sandy type soil, I think your mix is perfect for aeration and drainage.

On to your main point/question... You do not want to till the soil in order to bring it back to life after a harvest/season. The most important thing you can do is STAY OFF. Do not walk on it. Do not let your pets walk on it. Do not run machinery over it. Do not compact the soil in any way. After a few waterings/rain events - it will compact down naturally over time. You can make sure you have plenty of WORMS in your soil to continually aerate and keep things moving. Ants will also help but ants can farm aphids so you want to be careful of this. You can bring in worms from outside by ordering through a catalog or online. Or collect them from other areas after a rain event when they surface and bring them to your garden beds.

For this purpose, I would suggest using a raised bed. You will "trap" more of the worms in your immediate area which will benefit your plants tremendously.

Raised bed.

2011rex87 said:

You would have to tell us if you have clay like soil or sandy soil or what...


sorry i forgot...clay soil absolutely clay soil

If you have clay soil, you would have to mix in some larger pieces of inert material to maintain good drainage and aeration. Some folks will use small river rocks or lava rocks or very large chunks of perlite. The normal small/medium size perlite pieces may not be good enough for a clay type soil.
ok, but clay soil is just 25% of the mix...the surrounding soil is 100% clay

so you suggest me biggest size of perlite/pumice/lapillis
any recomended measures ?

The peat moss will most likely break down depending on soil conditions. The coco coir is less likely to break down as quickly. Keep in mind peat moss is acidic. You should sample your current soil in your area to tell us if it's acidic or alkaline.
Alkaline , my soil is Alkaline
You don't want to add too much peat moss to an already acidic soil without adding lime or something to alkalize the peat moss.
i have dolomite lime...but this is not my case
If you have sandy type soil, I think your mix is perfect for aeration and drainage.
not a sandy soil
On to your main point/question... You do not want to till the soil in order to bring it back to life after a harvest/season. The most important thing you can do is STAY OFF. Do not walk on it. Do not let your pets walk on it. Do not run machinery over it. Do not compact the soil in any way. After a few waterings/rain events - it will compact down naturally over time. You can make sure you have plenty of WORMS in your soil to continually aerate and keep things moving.
i stay off, i dont walk on it, that surface is well protected
i have some Red Californian Earthworm in it, hope thay can do their job accurately
Ants will also help but ants can farm aphids so you want to be careful of this. You can bring in worms from outside by ordering through a catalog or online.
any suggestion?

Or collect them from other areas after a rain event when they surface and bring them to your garden beds.

For this purpose, I would suggest using a raised bed. You will "trap" more of the worms in your immediate area which will benefit your plants tremendously.
definitely yes, Raised Bed
any good read on how to build it properly ?
should be

Click to expand...

thx so much for all your words !! very inspiring!

h.h. said:

Raised bed.

Click to expand...

better solution

thx

"[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]For many years, horticultural perlite was understood to mean relatively large and often screened material. Usually it was used to provide aeration and drainage, and fine and medium grades were usually avoided."
http://www.schundler.com/size.htm

That website has all the information you need on selecting perlite size. For your application go with COARSE.

As for the worms... There are a hundred or more outlets for ordering worms online... Here is just one example of a highly rated product.
Uncle Jim's Worm Farm 1,000 Count Red Wiggler Live Composting Worms
https://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Jims-Worm-Farm-Composting/dp/B000Q5S7RM


As for the design of the garden beds.. There is an unlimited variety of designs for your beds. You can incorporate irrigation into the beds, You can put down plastic under the beds OR NOT. You can incorporate drains into the beds. You can prepare the structure for later trellising the plants in the beds. Etc. Etc. Just let us know what direction you are going in...
[/FONT][/FONT]

Also a few things to keep in mind... If you are choosing WOOD for your raised bed structure... You will have to determine how permanent these beds will be. Do you want to use treated lumber for the wood that will be buried? There are several types of untreated lumber of specific tree species that can handle the moisture but these woods are more expensive. Treated wood can be pressure treated but can also come with a chemical treatment so be careful when selecting your materials.

2011rex87 said:

"[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]For many years, horticultural perlite was understood to mean relatively large and often screened material. Usually it was used to provide aeration and drainage, and fine and medium grades were usually avoided."
https://www.schundler.com/size.htm

That website has all the information you need on selecting perlite size. For your application go with COARSE.

As for the worms... There are a hundred or more outlets for ordering worms online... Here is just one example of a highly rated product.
Uncle Jim's Worm Farm 1,000 Count Red Wiggler Live Composting Worms
https://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Jims-Worm-Farm-Composting/dp/B000Q5S7RM


As for the design of the garden beds.. There is an unlimited variety of designs for your beds. You can incorporate irrigation into the beds, You can put down plastic under the beds OR NOT. You can incorporate drains into the beds. You can prepare the structure for later trellising the plants in the beds. Etc. Etc. Just let us know what direction you are going in...
[/FONT][/FONT]

Click to expand...

2011rex87 said:

Also a few things to keep in mind... If you are choosing WOOD for your raised bed structure... You will have to determine how permanent these beds will be. Do you want to use treated lumber for the wood that will be buried? There are several types of untreated lumber of specific tree species that can handle the moisture but these woods are more expensive. Treated wood can be pressure treated but can also come with a chemical treatment so be careful when selecting your materials.

Click to expand...

Ok Rex thx for ur accurate infos
I need to know more about all

Great idea to add red-wigglers in the soil. Thx so much

Long term, I like lava rock over perlite. They both have pros and cons.

The lava rock pretty much lasts forever, doesn't compact, and supposedly provides a home for microbes.

Perlite holds a bit more air, but it turns into dust, floats to the top, crushes when stepped on, and supposedly wont host microbes.

Perlite is sort of ugly and messy outdoors as well imo.

Either raised bed or in the ground, you should address drainage in the native soil.

Mr^^

MedResearcher said:

Long term, I like lava rock over perlite. They both have pros and cons.

The lava rock pretty much lasts forever, doesn't compact, and supposedly provides a home for microbes.

Perlite holds a bit more air, but it turns into dust, floats to the top, crushes when stepped on, and supposedly wont host microbes.

Perlite is sort of ugly and messy outdoors as well imo.

Either raised bed or in the ground, you should address drainage in the native soil.

Mr^^

Click to expand...

which sort of Lava rock are u reffering ?

It's red and has a lot of holes in it. Usually used as landscaping and also used in some bbq setups. I think most big box hardware stores sell it by the bag.

2011rex87 said:

It's red and has a lot of holes in it. Usually used as landscaping and also used in some bbq setups. I think most big box hardware stores sell it by the bag.

Click to expand...

Red Rocks (Lapillis) that is what i have

Sooo nice !!


Thx

Howd this turn out? did you go with beds? how big?