Queen Mother

McFreedom · Mar 16, 2017

I know this is the Ace section, there is no original delicatessen section so here goes.

Queen Mother looks like a very interesting plant because it's a pure sativa and very short flowering time. How would it compare to Bangi Haze? Has anybody here grown it? Anybody done a grow/smoke report?

Thanks guys

NENugger · Mar 17, 2017

I am interested as well. Hopefully Dubi will comment.

farmerlion · Mar 28, 2017

Syd Barret has one Queen Mother going that I know of on the Ace forum. I just picked up one or two packs of these myself. I will be running at least one maybe two plants for sure. This will be my first grow in a greenhouse, so I expect a learning curve. (humidity, temp regulation, ect.) I plan on posting my Original Delicatessen plants on here as well. I hope dubi doesn't mind. I don't know if I'm going to run my Bangi Haze this summer or not. If I do I will place them close to each other for you. Then you can see them side by side through out the grow. Dubi may chime in and give you the answer much sooner than my grow will. Peace

ChaosCatalunya · Mar 28, 2017

McFreedom said:
I know this is the Ace section, there is no original delicatessen section so here goes.

Queen Mother looks like a very interesting plant because it's a pure sativa and very short flowering time. How would it compare to Bangi Haze? Has anybody here grown it? Anybody done a grow/smoke report?

Thanks guys

IIRC the origins of Queen Mother are a mystery, she may well not be pure Sativa

baduy · Mar 28, 2017

QM is more "feel good weed" and less" do something weed" but very far from being a couchlock stone, more like a really very nice high. I prefer the high of BH while QM wins for me in the smell and taste department, BH perfume carries a lot of middle and base notes while QM perfume is more on the top and middle notes QM is really a beauty when in flower, one of mines had super red stems and leaves delivering every autumn color in the end. They both look almost indica when young and change gradually while growing,QM shows much more vigor in early stages of growth and gets more slender when adult
In fact I like so much each one that this season I'm going to cross all the seeds I still have of both.
ChaosCatalunya I asked myself about that too. From the infos I could read it is my understanding that OD cannot ensure that the "spanish sativa" is pure sativa because it was previously reproduced by other growers for a long time.

ChaosCatalunya · Mar 28, 2017

baduy said:
QM is more "feel good weed" and less" do something weed" but very far from being a couchlock stone, more like a really very nice high. I prefer the high of BH while QM wins for me in the smell and taste department, BH perfume carries a lot of middle and base notes while QM perfume is more on the top and middle notes QM is really a beauty when in flower, one of mines had super red stems and leaves delivering every autumn color in the end. They both look almost indica when young and change gradually while growing,QM shows much more vigor in early stages of growth and gets more slender when adult
In fact I like so much each one that this season I'm going to cross all the seeds I still have of both.
ChaosCatalunya I asked myself about that too. From the infos I could read it is my understanding that OD cannot ensure that the "spanish sativa" is pure sativa because it was previously reproduced by other growers for a long time.

Thanks baduy, that is pretty much what I recalled and was trying to say...

Either way, everybody who tries them seems to love them, I have a few of most of their varieties saved and a couple going already

warcraft74 · Mar 28, 2017

i grew her relative, alice a couple of years ago. i started her late in the season though, and she didn't reach anywhere near full potential but i got about a quarter out of her. she grows almost neon green, and very limber. she just bends in the wind with ease. the buds grew fluffy and loose and the high was very heady and clear with only a hint of dirtiness. smoke too much though, and you're gonna get spaced out. 80% high 20% stone i'd say. more sativa than panama - i can tell you that from my personal experience with the two.

if dubi drops by, i'd be interested to know how her high compares to her other relatives like lilly and of course queen mother. which of the three (or more) from cannabiogen are the most sativa?

ChaosCatalunya said:
IIRC the origins of Queen Mother are a mystery, she may well not be pure Sativa

she's not - it's a ten weeker. there's indica, but it's faint. i've read that the grower denies indica heritage, but a ten weeker is not a pure sativa.

Zitz · Mar 28, 2017

baduy said:
QM is more "feel good weed" and less" do something weed" but very far from being a couchlock stone, more like a really very nice high. I prefer the high of BH while QM wins for me in the smell and taste department, BH perfume carries a lot of middle and base notes while QM perfume is more on the top and middle notes QM is really a beauty when in flower, one of mines had super red stems and leaves delivering every autumn color in the end. They both look almost indica when young and change gradually while growing,QM shows much more vigor in early stages of growth and gets more slender when adult
In fact I like so much each one that this season I'm going to cross all the seeds I still have of both.
ChaosCatalunya I asked myself about that too. From the infos I could read it is my understanding that OD cannot ensure that the "spanish sativa" is pure sativa because it was previously reproduced by other growers for a long time.

Good info, QM is a bit mysterious, having Zamal genetics if Im not mistaken yet finishing early.

Another early pure sativa Ive recently been reading about is Destroyer (CBG), sounds similar to QM/BH and has many fans that love the effect.

ChaosCatalunya · Mar 28, 2017

warcraft74 said:
i grew her relative, alice a couple of years ago. i started her late in the season though, and she didn't reach anywhere near full potential but i got about a quarter out of her. she grows almost neon green, and very limber. she just bends in the wind with ease. the buds grew fluffy and loose and the high was very heady and clear with only a hint of dirtiness. smoke too much though, and you're gonna get spaced out. 80% high 20% stone i'd say. more sativa than panama - i can tell you that from my personal experience with the two.

if dubi drops by, i'd be interested to know how her high compares to her other relatives like lilly and of course queen mother. which of the three (or more) from cannabiogen are the most sativa?

she's not - it's a ten weeker. there's indica, but it's faint. i've read that the grower denies indica heritage, but a ten weeker is not a pure sativa.

I think you are right, but not about the flowering time alone defining it as a hybrid, there are 10 week pure sativas, Mexicans .. people were chatting about it recently on here

warcraft74 · Mar 29, 2017

ChaosCatalunya said:
I think you are right, but not about the flowering time alone defining it as a hybrid, there are 10 week pure sativas, Mexicans .. people were chatting about it recently on here

i have to respectfully disagree. it irks me when folks label strains like panama, bangi and malawi pure sativas - they're not. you can't smoke those strains and honestly tell me that you don't feel the indica effect. you can't honestly smoke those (above mentioned) strains, and compare it to say a 24 week thai and still label them pure sativa. if it finishes in 10, 12, 14 weeks, there should be no doubt in your mind that there's indica buried somewhere in the genetics. it may be faint, and it may be distant, but it's there. that's just my opinion, but it's based on common sense.

Dr.King · Mar 29, 2017

warcraft74 said:
i have to respectfully disagree. it irks me when folks label strains like panama, bangi and malawi pure sativas - they're not. you can't smoke those strains and honestly tell me that you don't feel the indica effect. you can't honestly smoke those (above mentioned) strains, and compare it to say a 24 week thai and still label them pure sativa. if it finishes in 10, 12, 14 weeks, there should be no doubt in your mind that there's indica buried somewhere in the genetics. it may be faint, and it may be distant, but it's there. that's just my opinion, but it's based on common sense.

Proper f1-f3 Panama will take 16-20 weeks to finish flowering. Check my Albums and thread out regarding CBG's Panama, it's still in it's f3 phase and worth growing just like Ace's Panama. Ace's Panama is breed for indoors which is why the flowering time is lower than 16 weeks. That being said I have seen most of the people growing Panama either it be from CBG or Ace seeds, growers are pulling her way early in my opinion. This also depends on the kind of high you are looking for from Panama. Later the flowering harvest time the more dreamy she will be. True Panama red back in the 70's was pure Sativa, high was active yet insanely dreamy with no ceiling and no anxiety/paranoia.

Comparing all I have done, you are correct the 24 week Oldtimer's Haze I grew is my holy grail without question. That being said the 18 week CBG Panama I grew was the second in line for a holy grail spot. Thai Stick and Double Thai will be interesting to grew here in Oregon too see how they compare. Dubi just put out the Lab results for their Panama Goddess f10 which is super high in CBG almost 3%.

"CBG, also known as cannabigerol, is an active compound in cannabis that is mostly known for its anti-bacterial effects. However, very recent research has found that, whilst not traditionally though to be very prevalent within most cannabis strains, it is likely to be the “template” or “stem cell” for both THC and CBD. This means that both THC and CBD start out as CBG. CBG has also been found to inhibit the uptake of GABA, this causes a feeling of relaxation that is normally associated with CBD. These findings have spurred new ongoing research into the cannabinoid, meaning it may have even larger implications."

Hope this helps.

baduy · Mar 29, 2017

IIRC there's a post by Sam the Skunkman somewhere in the depths of IC in which he says that for creating Skunk he used the Mexican to shorten the flowering time of his Columbian/Afghani hybrid. I used to express the same doubts on the First Lady thread because of my ignorance about Northern Mexican cultivars.
Also no indica in Moroccan kif and the original Ketama strain has individuals ready as soon as the end of August (but Phyllos did show how heavy tainted with Hemp it is), same goes for the Lebanese, TRSC sells a Sinai landrace which is pretty early and a Mazar I Sharif which is ready late November, early December.
Bangi is a pure Sativa as Nepalese strains are pure Sativa. All North Indian hymalayan cultivars are pure Sativas and can be ready as soon as October. It's the unpaired heavy couchlock stone , deemed as desirable, which caused this tsunami of Afghanica genes not the early flowers
I think we too often systematically associate Sativa (or BLD) with long flowering time but the taxonomy divides between BLD and NLD and not long flowering/short flowering aftr all.

ChaosCatalunya · Mar 29, 2017

warcraft74 said:
i have to respectfully disagree. it irks me when folks label strains like panama, bangi and malawi pure sativas - they're not. you can't smoke those strains and honestly tell me that you don't feel the indica effect. you can't honestly smoke those (above mentioned) strains, and compare it to say a 24 week thai and still label them pure sativa. if it finishes in 10, 12, 14 weeks, there should be no doubt in your mind that there's indica buried somewhere in the genetics. it may be faint, and it may be distant, but it's there. that's just my opinion, but it's based on common sense.

I have grown and smoked a number of pure sativas and in my opinion the Panama is a pure sativa. IIRC the origins of the Malawi are not absolutely certain, but the Panama are, what we have is just the result of good selective breeding, not crossing in Indicas.

Sativas from different places have different effects, what you are saying is " indica buried somewhere in the genetics" may be true some of the time, but may well not for other strains, it is a diverse plant and not always due to indica influence... as far as I now !

With the DNA testing of lines now in progress, hopefully a lot of these mysteries will become clear. Maybe all "shorter flowering Mexicans" are simply post '60s lines with BOEL introduced Lebanese genes that include Indica and Hemp.... or maybe they are millions of years old, we don't know, but it is going to be fun finding out.

The Hatter · Mar 30, 2017

Zitz said:
Good info, QM is a bit mysterious, having Zamal genetics if Im not mistaken yet finishing early.

Another early pure sativa Ive recently been reading about is Destroyer (CBG), sounds similar to QM/BH and has many fans that love the effect.

Destroyer is middle of the road on flowering time although vastly quicker than the pure Thai she is based on. I have personally seen Destroyer go 15+ weeks on some phenos although most are quicker than this. It's a great pure sativa. Very clean, electric upbeat smoke.

The Hatter · Mar 30, 2017

warcraft74 said:
i have to respectfully disagree. it irks me when folks label strains like panama, bangi and malawi pure sativas - they're not. you can't smoke those strains and honestly tell me that you don't feel the indica effect. you can't honestly smoke those (above mentioned) strains, and compare it to say a 24 week thai and still label them pure sativa. if it finishes in 10, 12, 14 weeks, there should be no doubt in your mind that there's indica buried somewhere in the genetics. it may be faint, and it may be distant, but it's there. that's just my opinion, but it's based on common sense.

I have definitely seen pure land race Mexican highland thin leafed sativa from 30+ years ago directly out of mexico that finished in under ten weeks. It was a buddy of mine who grew it and its the reason I have such an appetite for oldschool land race strains today. There is a huge difference between highland and lowland tropical sativa strains. Lowland equatorial strains are the super long flowering ones. Mountain sativas tend to be very fast flowering, bordering on as fast as land race indicas. Also the "indica" and "sativa" designation we give strains is actually pretty arbitrary and has no real basis in science. These days they generally refer to "indicas" as wide leaf drug cultivar and sativas and narrow leaf drug cultivars although I personal think cultivar is a bit of misnomer when it comes to land race strains that have been growing up in the jungle or up on the mountain without human intervention for centuries. In nature we find all kinds of intermediate strains. For instance look at wild growing highland Nepalese strains. You can show one of these strains to two different "experts" and have one declare it and "indica" and the other a "sativa." Highland sativas also tend to have shorter flowering periods and wider leaves than their lowland counterparts despite growing at the same low latitudes.

yesum · Mar 30, 2017

^^ I had not thought of it but I guess you are right on the shorter flower for highland strains. It gets cold at 10,000 feet elevation in winter, even near the equator eh? Not sure why the wider leaves for high altitude.

The old Colombian Gold is considered a highland strain but has slender leaves and takes a long time to flower. Might not have been grown that high up that if starts to freeze during winter? 5000 feet compared to 10,000 or higher, is really not that close in temperature extremes.

baduy · Mar 30, 2017

Stronger humidity level overnight and good morning dew in the highlands,usually soils are more rocky and shallow too making it harder for roots to collect water. Broad leaves are a plus to collect this tiny amount of water every morning giving a better survival rate. At least that's how I always understood this broad leaves expressions, maybe I'm wrong.

The Hatter · Mar 30, 2017

yesum said:
^^ I had not thought of it but I guess you are right on the shorter flower for highland strains. It gets cold at 10,000 feet elevation in winter, even near the equator eh? Not sure why the wider leaves for high altitude.

The old Colombian Gold is considered a highland strain but has slender leaves and takes a long time to flower. Might not have been grown that high up that if starts to freeze during winter? 5000 feet compared to 10,000 or higher, is really not that close in temperature extremes.

Yeah, the wider leaf rule isn't absolute on high altitude sativas. The mexican land race my buddy grew finished in about ten weeks but it had very thin leaves with aggressive serrations on the edges. It grew with an open Christmas tree structure and long, thin, flexible branches. Also as you pointed out, highland is a relative term. I mean I have seen people describe mountains that are only a couple thousand feet high as the highlands in regions that are otherwise flat and sit near the sea. On the other hand we have places like the Andes or Himalayas where highlands can be up above 20,000ft. Where I live the valley or lowlands sit at about 5,000ft and the highlands around us are mountains that top 10,000ft.

ChaosCatalunya · Mar 30, 2017

Funnily enough I was with Mr Phyllos at Spannabis a month ago when we visited the ACE stand and bought up a load of their stock... So, hopefully sometime later in the year we should have some detailed insight into the origins and links between some of these wild and worked Sativas.

baduy said:
IIRC there's a post by Sam the Skunkman somewhere in the depths of IC in which he says that for creating Skunk he used the Mexican to shorten the flowering time of his Columbian/Afghani hybrid. I used to express the same doubts on the First Lady thread because of my ignorance about Northern Mexican cultivars.
Also no indica in Moroccan kif and the original Ketama strain has individuals ready as soon as the end of August (but Phyllos did show how heavy tainted with Hemp it is), same goes for the Lebanese, TRSC sells a Sinai landrace which is pretty early and a Mazar I Sharif which is ready late November, early December.
Bangi is a pure Sativa as Nepalese strains are pure Sativa. All North Indian hymalayan cultivars are pure Sativas and can be ready as soon as October. It's the unpaired heavy couchlock stone , deemed as desirable, which caused this tsunami of Afghanica genes not the early flowers
I think we too often systematically associate Sativa (or BLD) with long flowering time but the taxonomy divides between BLD and NLD and not long flowering/short flowering aftr all.

baduy · Apr 26, 2017

Had trouble for sexing my queen mothers outdoor this year which reminded me something I forgot about this plant and that is that from my limited experience QM is VERY sensitive to light pollution, anything above full moon light intensity is disturbing her when flowering something suburban outdoor growers should consider Built some light deprivation cabin to hide from a neighbooring street light and they did show sex 3 days after.
3 males, 3 females :huggg:

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