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Old 01-20-2018, 09:01 AM #111
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Have I missed the question of whether any of this is relevant when growing from seed?
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:32 PM #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slownickel View Post
Larry,

Excellent observations!

I have found that sativas want more N than indicas...

Your observation about water is more than likely due to an irrigation calculation factor called roughness. Basically the bigger the leaf and leaf density, the more "roughness", meaning more evaporation from the leaf due to its' size, width, etc, thus the observation you have made, the plant wants more water. The sativa will take longer to dry out as a result.

And I also agree with you completely about the mathematical formula for each variety, not just a grow! In large crops like mandarin oranges, an Okitsu has a very different feeding requirement than an Owari. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! Cannabis is the same of that I am sure.

Excellent!
really? can i see some pics of these sativas in flower that require heavy N?

every single sativa i've ever run across hates too much nitrogen. i run my sativa's N deficient from the beginning.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:56 PM #113
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Originally Posted by slownickel View Post
Cali,

I have no problem adding Mg in the form of K-Mag and it is often part of my recommendation. It does not react like Mg Sulfate.

I also have no problem putting on foliar Mg, also recommended in many situations. Realize that with high Mg it is common to have Mg deficiencies in the leaves! Lack of air and being water logged kills roots.

So, exactly which part of my Mg rec's are you not in agreement with?
Poor wording on my part. I just always see posts saying too much Mg in the soil and not to add more. That is true but I never see but may be needed as foliar. I do find Mg very important to the finishing and ripening process. I'm sure your private messages with recommendations talk about that. The average reader of the thread may misinterpret Mg as just being bad.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:30 PM #114
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The average reader is drowning in Mg! The biggest problem we usually have is too much Mg in the soil/medium. This is why it so critical to really look at real numbers.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:46 PM #115
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Originally Posted by PoweredByLove View Post
really? can i see some pics of these sativas in flower that require heavy N?

every single sativa i've ever run across hates too much nitrogen. i run my sativa's N deficient from the beginning.
Of course there is too much nitrogen if you apply too much nitrogen. Side by side though, in a controlled pure amino acid based N supply, the sativas that I have run against heavy indicas always seem to ask for more.

If you are having N issues, I might suggest you examine the possibilities that you are facing. Maybe there is not enough Mo? Conversion of N using Mo is quite amazing.

If you don't have enough Ca, too much N is always an issue. Given that everyone that has ever done an analysis NEVER has enough Ca.

Without enough B, You can't pick up Ca.

What is your N supply?
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:00 AM #116
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Have I missed the question of whether any of this is relevant when growing from seed?
Shmavis,

Of all that holes that one can fall in, Calcium is the biggest. The reason is simple, you can't recover from a Ca deficiency, ever. So everyone pretty much starts with a ball and chain around their neck and then want to run.

This is why I get folks to run soil analysis correctly, using procedures for the type of media/soil that one is in. Those that have gone this route and applied their Ca up front in adequate quantities against K, Mg and Na, see excellent results.

Having more K than P, same issue, hard to catch up on that one too.

So yes, roots are roots. Just that if a Mom is malnourished, her clones are not going to form callus on the cut. Many seeds lose viability or have problems for the same issue, not enough reserves, especially Mn.

I will take some photos in February of a couple of grows that I work with to demonstrate my point regarding callus formation. I will probably post those in my thread though... slownickel lounge. Check it out. Lots of analysis, science, results!
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:47 AM #117
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The biggest difference I see between farming and weed growing comes down to how much money growers justify spending on nutrients.

Go to a farm and the farmer is looking for the lowest input cost possible. The problems are going to predominately deficiencies. And if that def is an immobile element you is fucked before you start.

Go to a weed grow and it is certain some shit is in excess. Including Ca.

The weird irony is you start taking out those excesses and plant metabolism speeds up. But then you get closer to “balance” and all of a sudden some yellowing.

So now you need to fertilize more often with that balanced feed...not the easiest thing to explain

Anyways, 5 gal pots of coco fed 12x a day is my favorite grow. Turn them yellow in 2-3 days with water
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:21 AM #118
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Originally Posted by jidoka View Post
The biggest difference I see between farming and weed growing comes down to how much money growers justify spending on nutrients.

Go to a farm and the farmer is looking for the lowest input cost possible. The problems are going to predominately deficiencies. And if that def is an immobile element you is fucked before you start.

Go to a weed grow and it is certain some shit is in excess. Including Ca.

The weird irony is you start taking out those excesses and plant metabolism speeds up. But then you get closer to “balance” and all of a sudden some yellowing.

So now you need to fertilize more often with that balanced feed...not the easiest thing to explain

Anyways, 5 gal pots of coco fed 12x a day is my favorite grow. Turn them yellow in 2-3 days with water
What you are seeing is a hungry plant. Everyone that goes down the Ca rabbit hole sees the same thing. The plant is getting hungry. You built an amazing huge skeletal system and now you have to fill it up. Everyone is having to push fertilizers/inputs once on the heavy Ca. The result is higher yield AND higher quality. Yes or No?

Very different feeding little children versus a monster athlete!
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:38 AM #119
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Ca was not the key that made the plant hungry. Adjusting Ca up and up eventually causes problems...it does not work magic.

The key is balance. When all elements come into balance hormones also balance. That is what allows you to feed more without getting unhealthy plants.

Go ahead and drive Ca up to 10% in tissue. It ain’t hard...but the fucking stems will be.

The focus on saying there is absolutely too much Mg, not enough Mn, P or Ca...while correct most of the time...can lead people to do stupid shit
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:57 AM #120
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Originally Posted by jidoka View Post
Ca was not the key that made the plant hungry. Adjusting Ca up and up eventually causes problems...it does not work magic.

The key is balance. When all elements come into balance hormones also balance. That is what allows you to feed more without getting unhealthy plants.

Go ahead and drive Ca up to 10% in tissue. It ain’t hard...but the fucking stems will be.

The focus on saying there is absolutely too much Mg, not enough Mn, P or Ca...while correct most of the time...can lead people to do stupid shit
That is why there is analysis. When I speak in generalities, it is because 95% of the time that is the way it is.

I would say that there is easily over a hundred sets of soil tests that have been done correctly from growers on this page and a couple of others. The majority have too much K, too much Mg and not enough Ca. None of them ever had too much Ca. Someone like you comes along and saturates with Ca and then wonder why something goes wrong?

Folks needing Mg is 95% of the time not due to needing Mg. It is because K, Na, Mg or N is in excess or P is deficient.

I recommend Mg foliarly quite often when I see N excess. Works well. Nothing wrong with applying Mg foliarly, it is the soil that is the problem.
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