Increasing Terpenes Production and/or Reducing Terpenes Loss During Cure

MIway said:

I kinda pay attention to my drying room... it's just as climate controlled as anywhere else... and from experience, weed can't dry at 68F with 60%RH... it just won't fully dry (MC of 9-12%)... you won't be able to get down there, the weed will always be soft & pliable, not dry & crisp. It just won't... too much moisture in the air, constantly keeping the nugs semi-moist.

When you jar that, it won't have the super crip & distinct odors... imho. It's jarred damp weed... and that's what it is. Burping damp weed isn't going to do anything.

Try 72-74F... 44-48%RH... 48+ slows it down, 44- will increase the speed of the dry.

Jar at 2 weeks, when crisp like several above have suggested. ;-)

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Hmmm, the acknowledged experts in curing (the tobacco industry) don't offer any "crispy" smoking products, in fact soft & pliable is the rule in the larger smoking world. Why would you recommend anything different?

Since i don't expect any factual answer to that question, i will remark that the scientific rational behind the experience based industrial standard of soft and pliable smoke materials is that the higher incipient water vapor pressure of a product finished into the ~60% rh range suppresses ancillary terpene vaporization, thus better preserving flavor and smokeability.

^^ Yeah, kind of like the link in my first post says for curing bright burley:

"In normal weather during the tobacco curing season in Kentucky, the outdoor temperature seldom goes above 90 degrees or below 60 degrees F for any great length of time. Therefore, favorable curing conditions depend largely on whether relative humidity can be kept around 65 or 70 per cent." .

Dry to low case = 65 - 70% RH, cure for a couple of months or so, works for me anyway.

prune said:

Hmmm, the acknowledged experts in curing (the tobacco industry) don't offer any "crispy" smoking products, in fact soft & pliable is the rule in the larger smoking world. Why would you recommend anything different?

Since i don't expect any factual answer to that question, i will remark that the scientific rational behind the experience based industrial standard of soft and pliable smoke materials is that the higher incipient water vapor pressure of a product finished into the ~60% rh range suppresses ancillary terpene vaporization, thus better preserving flavor and smokeability.

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did you say...smokeability?

Lucky Strikes, "ITS TOASTED", I do believe that was the logo I read new every day on my cigarette pack.

Not that it was a good thing, but there it was.

lol. i just watched the Mad Men episode last night where they came up with "ITS TOASTED". hooray for serendipity.

fabvariousk said:

I agree with BigDawg.
I don't use scissors anymore to trim.
When the buds have dried enough that I can crumble off the sugar leaves with my fingers I know they can be jarred and taste awesome.
That is usually a week hung in 70 degrees.
Then another week in a drawer.
You can lose flavor and smell by trimming/jarring too early.

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i do exactly the same as you but i have to hang dry for at least 14days, i was talking to some1 who has grown for yrs and he dried and trimmed like this because he thinks that when you snip either a leaf or stem a tiny bit of sap is left behind which holds clorophyl thus ruining the flavour, ive done it this way ever since and i can defo notice the difference

hb

Search forum for "fridge cure"

too stoned to go find links

cant offer any scientific evidence for this but would agree that use of diverse organic soil, especially bat guano, seems to increase both the intensity and variety of terpenes.

also using MH, CMH or daylight helps a lot...

would be interested to see any papers or studies on this...

VG

prune said:

To realize those answers you need to ask two questions. Why does a plant produce terpenes? How does a plant produce terpenes?

The answers are out there to be found and read by the industrious and cogent, but you won't find them here...

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how about a few links or references for us mere mortals?

VG

yeah icmags got it! If Smell = Taste

yeah icmags got it! If Smell = Taste

fss icmag aint slackin!

prune- has the right question.
How and Why does the plant grow scent glands?

You can manipulate the plants growth.
Commonly referred to as stress.

this thread is LOADED with stress info.
Positive Stress, Can being “unkind” to your plants ever be a good thing?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224064

Summarized my Taste experiments:

If Smell= Taste and your grow doesn't REEK
buds wont be as tasty as they could be.

so how to get them to smell
-just piss the plants off!
-increase ventilation blowing on the plants (start to finish)
-let the plants roots dry out a little creates a HUGE reaction.(midflower)
-ice flush triggers a HUGE reaction! But.. reluctant to empty the scent glands at the end of the flower. not sure its wise. (undecided)

over stress them you might significantly reduce yield or kill the plant.

Big fan of use of small amounts of stress to trigger a reaction.

Totally abused a Skunk plant, neglect upon neglect (she pissed me off). Low yield But taste was overpowering!
IMHO Skunk scent piss. Have to say it was incredible.

Note: Cure is also a major contributor to holding the taste. If taste doesnt exist in grow, taste wont be there in the end.

Generally speaking: Its a zero sum game, why does hydro outproduce organics and organics better taste than hydro.
Roots and Nutes !

Stir the pot with this:
Organics may taste better cause nutes are still left in the buds and natural higher level of root stress vs hydro.

The Secrets OUT!

Peace!

prune said:

To realize those answers you need to ask two questions. Why does a plant produce terpenes? How does a plant produce terpenes?

The answers are out there to be found and read by the industrious and cogent, but you won't find them here...

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Actually you are wrong... the biosynthesis of terpenoids is covered in most biochem 101 classes here is an oversimplified overview.
.

terpenes are used in for a vast number of purposes within the plant most importantly imo as endocrine homones and signaling compounds eg phytosteroids but also to protect the plant from predators and many others...

I dry my plants in the dark at 50 percent rh and 75f for about 5-7 days after removing all the fan leaves. A small fan blows constantly below the drying plants but never on them. This high rh allows the plants to finish cellular activity and enzyme activity including catobolism of harsh chlorophyll and nfcm's. The plants are placed in glass jars when the stem just about snaps and the jars a 'burped' daily watching for any condensation. Once they reach my desired dryness they are sealed in the jars till use. This method emulates a slat barn in Virgina or Cuba slow drying with no stagnent air is the key.
Using this method you do not drive off the aromatic amines, esters and terpenes that give the taste profile of cannabis it's unique properties and it just plain makes yer herb smoke and taste like it should.
HM

Fantastic eye opener. I dry for 7 days at 70% at 70F. with air circulating. A smart forum fellow, whose name I'm ashamed to say I can't recall, suggested this and it's really worked well. I just never knew why.

I don't have the luxury of a dark cure for this grow I just pulled, though I have fashioned a poly tent to get the Rh up above 40%. Based on your success at 50% maybe I won't be so bad off.

rrog said:

Fantastic eye opener. I dry for 7 days at 70% at 70F. with air circulating. A smart forum fellow, whose name I'm ashamed to say I can't recall, suggested this and it's really worked well. I just never knew why.

I don't have the luxury of a dark cure for this grow I just pulled, though I have fashioned a poly tent to get the Rh up above 40%. Based on your success at 50% maybe I won't be so bad off.

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Nope 40 will not work it has to be 50....Oh I'm just pulling yer leg that'll work fine. just make sure the air is always moving but minimum wind on the plants. Get them in the jar as soon as the stems crack but don't wait till they snap crackle and pop
HM

Curious about the absence of light. Been thinking about it all night. Previously I would have said that the light, specially without UV, would not affect anything. Now I'm wondering if the light would essentially tell the plant to keep growing, and prohibit the chlorophyll catabolism.

Sure appreciate the insights

VerdantGreen said:

cant offer any scientific evidence for this but would agree that use of diverse organic soil, especially bat guano, seems to increase both the intensity and variety of terpenes.

also using MH, CMH or daylight helps a lot...

would be interested to see any papers or studies on this...

VG

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Hi VG, All, nice thread..

Re Soil vs Hydro, I have a theory that Cannabis flowers may be like Wine Grapes and other produce [that I am too stoned to remember if the truth be known] produce their most concentrated flavours when they are not fed or watered to death. A less productive plant may be the most tasty.

For Drying, great info from many posters, much to experiment with, but, FWIW and against the grain, I have had great taste, flavours and highs from weed I dried "briskly" in 4 or 5 days, with oscilating fans and full growroom air extraction, lights off.

Curing, based on zero real evidence but a lot of seat of the pants experience, the less time a plant spends composting, semi wet, the better. IMO, Weed that is jarred to early, then burped X times, just screws the fine flavours up. If you wait before jarring, till the bud stems only just pull clear of the stalks, you never have to burp and the weed is optimal. This process is surely one of the easiest to experiment with.



Also, raising and turning off some lights in the last 2 weeks of flower stops you cooking terpenes in their most vulnerable stages. You also, hopefully, stop the tops of "cooked" plants flubberlubbering into a 3rd flowering burst of fluffy tops that take forever to finish while the original bud below goes on and on and maybe eventually, off...

Top read,great info,thanks!

IMO a good way to dry and cure is inside of large cardboard boxes lined with fishing line. You can make a bunch of them and stack them nice and tall and pretty much fill a bedroom with them. Just remove the large fan leaves and break down the plant so the branches wont touch the bottom of the box..it also works well b/c it keeps it dark and pretty much a even consistent draw of moisture

Imo the advantage of this is the slow moisture draw you get from the cardboard. It takes a bit longer but ive nver see a bud mold or dry too quickly using this method, just throw a oscilating fan in the same room as the boxes and your golden.

ChaosCatalunya said:

Hi VG, All, nice thread..

Re Soil vs Hydro, I have a theory that Cannabis flowers may be like Wine Grapes and other produce [that I am too stoned to remember if the truth be known] produce their most concentrated flavours when they are not fed or watered to death. A less productive plant may be the most tasty.

For Drying, great info from many posters, much to experiment with, but, FWIW and against the grain, I have had great taste, flavours and highs from weed I dried "briskly" in 4 or 5 days, with oscilating fans and full growroom air extraction, lights off.

Curing, based on zero real evidence but a lot of seat of the pants experience, the less time a plant spends composting, semi wet, the better. IMO, Weed that is jarred to early, then burped X times, just screws the fine flavours up. If you wait before jarring, till the bud stems only just pull clear of the stalks, you never have to burp and the weed is optimal. This process is surely one of the easiest to experiment with.



Also, raising and turning off some lights in the last 2 weeks of flower stops you cooking terpenes in their most vulnerable stages. You also, hopefully, stop the tops of "cooked" plants flubberlubbering into a 3rd flowering burst of fluffy tops that take forever to finish while the original bud below goes on and on and maybe eventually, off...

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HUH....jarring properly does not result in screwed up anything as long as you don't screw up and let condesation happen in the jar. If your herb is sufficiently dry jarring causes no 'fermentation' at all if it does you fukced up and yer herb is wet. This ain't tobacco where you bundle it and let is heat up. Every day one must shake or stir the jar/bucket to make sure it ain't clumping and then leave it open for a half hour to allow air exchange and prevent anaerobic fermentation.
Jarring prevents the aromatics from leaving your plant as it dries by letting the vapor pressure rise in a controlled space thus preventing further volitalization. Ditto for the direct wind on your plant which is a really bad idea imo. You know all that smell which by the way is also taste...well that smell is a whole bunch of volatile compounds mainly amines, esters, terpenes etc reaching the olfactory receptors in yer nose my friend. In order to get to your nose they left your plant material savey, well now imagine very gentle breezes and high vapor pressure due to high rh holding those lil tasty bits in yer herbs...mmm tastey eh. Also properly jarred and cured herb is hard and does not crumble when broken unlike rapidly dried herb which turns to dust. The smoothness and taste is worlds above rapid curing methods...although some folks do prefer a bottle of this years montana red eye to 20 year old bourbon which I believe parallels why some folks cant see a difference in beaster crispy herb vs slow cured kindness. Here is a pic of properly cured herb notice the trichs are still full and not shrunken and the leaves are not shriveled...


And here is a picture of beaster weed...wait I don't have any pics but you know it when you see it and we all have...

For instance here is a little story

I started working a while back for some beasters her in montucky who dried their herb in the light on laundry racks blasted by a box fan. Minimal taste crispy and light plus harsh tastes from chlorophyll and non fluorescing chlorophyll metabolites [chlorphyll is a pyrrolic compound and if you ever smelled pyrrole you would understand the harsh tastes] still in the plant tissue. I introduced them to cold conditioning to remove the chlorphyll, slow drying in the dark with a humidistat and curing in 5gallon buckets and people started buying the up herb cause it looked, smelled and tasted great... but the fan blasting was faster and easier and the chief dude said 'I can't tell the difference' so now they are back to the same old shittty methods their herb is crap again, they are losing their shirts...and just can't understand why... HM

I enjoy your posts

I reqd the first post then skipped to here, forgive me hardcore forum boppers I'm in a hurry today. I recently ran into some of this flavor bangin bud you are speaking of yeaterday actually. Lots of different strains he's a cali grower who is visiting sone family here so I did get to speak with him and I, a former grower can point you in the direction you seek, lol. The biggest thing I have found and this medical grower agreed on as far.as locking in flavor long term is drying the plants whole and untrimmed. It takes longer, but the buds frost up even more after they are cut because they are still alive for a while after the chop. Plus somehow it helps the flavor to remain more like it was when the plant was alive to let it slowly transpire the water from itself amd die slowly vs. chopping all of its leafs off and sectioning up plants for a faster drying time. Also, you need to climate controll your drying room anywhere from 40* to 60* depending on what you can do at what time of the year. Colder means slower transpirations, which means better chlorophyll breakdown, less loss of water basted terp/flavanoids, ect. Basically the colder you can cure your buds the better. It always takes longer but this really steps the process up the where it needs to be at in the end. The grower I spoke of even jars with lots of trim leafs on, then trims before the sale. He does it with a cold room as well, and all if his was 100% flavor bangin proper my friend. There is the overall answer to your question. Dry and cure with the leafs on then trim before sale.. did I mention that part is a pain in the ass? Lol