Starting seeds

paradoxlost · Jan 5, 2018

How come people think you can't start seeds in large containers? The biggest container of them all is the ground where weed comes from. I don't get it. Same with clones. I get monitoring the development, but wtf guys. .

Sometimes this conventional wisdom from long time growers with no formal education is fucking stupid.

troutman · Jan 5, 2018

Why would you use large amounts of soil to germinate seeds?

With smaller amounts it's easier to start more seeds and the environment they are in is easier to control.

I would hate to germinate seeds in 10 plus gallon pots and they don't germinate.

Are you going to germinate seeds in huge pots?

Pics or it didn't happen. :tiphat:

Phaeton · Jan 5, 2018

Fresh rockwool does not hold water well. A ten inch deep rockwool container has all the moisture in the bottom three inches until the root mass gets large enough to hold more water.

A smaller shallower container puts more moisture on the seed or clone and the success rate is doubled.
On the very few occasions when dirt is used the the seed does go directly into the final container. With Poppies (no transplants) this is the only way and several seeds are planted in the same area to guarantee a sprout where it is wanted.

Gardening procedures are governed by results and if artificial media grows the best producing plants but has a hard time getting started then methods will be used to produce the strongest seedlings.
Trial and error finds smaller containers have a better survival rates and stronger seedlings. Long time growers have been growing a long time and have learned things that ignorant folks have not.

Nothing fucking stupid about learning, not at all.
Stupid is assuming you can read folk's minds when you really do not have a clue about whether or not they think it is impossible to germinate in a large container.
That is quite a leap and since you include me in the statement, well, you are full of shit past your eyebrows.

Jack T.Ripper · Jan 6, 2018

Get lost, Parasite!

Go work on a commercial farm that starts 10's of thousands of seeds for transplant a year.

Then come back with a different attitude and perspective then the shit one you have now.

iTarzan · Jan 6, 2018

In the ground a seedling can shoot a tap root down as far as it wants and branch as far as it wants. It doesn't matter if the top part of the soil has minimal roots.

In a large pot the seedling shoots a tap root down as far as it wants and then branches out. You are losing the root space of much of the soil in the pot because the roots grow down and not up. When you start them in a small pot the root hits bottom and starts to grow around. You restrict it for a bit in a small container. When you up-pot the roots now can brach out and fill the next size container. When you finally up-pot to the large container you speak of that big pot has roots from top to bottom and the yield will be much bigger due to a larger rootmass than if you just started the seed in the large container to begin with.

That is the reason for up-potting.

paradoxlost · Jan 6, 2018

troutman said:
Why would you use large amounts of soil to germinate seeds?

With smaller amounts it's easier to start more seeds and the environment they are in is easier to control.

I would hate to germinate seeds in 10 plus gallon pots and they don't germinate.

Are you going to germinate seeds in huge pots?

Pics or it didn't happen.

Yea the past couple go's we started 5 or so seeds in twenty gallons with cover crops. About to pop some beans in a 25 gallon

MedResearcher · Jan 6, 2018

Imo, just depends on what you have to work with and your goals. If you want to start 200 seeds in a 8x8 room you have to use small pots.

Outdoors with tons of space, it actually saves a lot of work starting in bigger if not final homes.

I think a good grower can start in as small or as big of a container as they like. Just a test of keeping the substrate moist enough but not to wet. Slowly coaching the roots outward and downward with water.

We may just run clones this year, if we were gonna run seed stock though I was planning to directly plant the seed in the final in ground mounds. Less work, better roots. We have seeds to burn to, so lowering the germinating % is not a big deal. Plant maybe 6 seeds in each mound, chop and drop the males, then choose the best female 1 per mound.

I am pretty decent at starting seeds in larger pots, from time to time though I can loose a few to dampening off compared to small pots that is very uncommon. Smaller pots though, the health can decline faster if not potted up in time, while a decent size pot with some nice strong healthy dirt can grow a pretty amazing sized plant in amazing time.

Mr^^

thejact55 · Jan 7, 2018

paradoxlost said:
Sometimes this conventional wisdom from long time growers with no formal education is fucking stupid.

It seems with a comment like this, why are you asking? You should know it all is seems.

1God777 · Jan 11, 2018

I prefer to start in big pots its way better you follow everything everybody says fuck that. Transplanting lot of times slows an or stunts growth.I take some advice from people i like theres no one correct way of growing. There's many ways

paradoxlost · Jan 11, 2018

thejact55 said:
It seems with a comment like this, why are you asking? You should know it all is seems.

Trying to see where everyone's head is at and how they got that way, ya know

Mikell · Jan 11, 2018

Then drop the attitude.

Something isn't stupid because you personally fail to understand it. This website is packed with information on the why and how, if you fail to make use of it, well, stupid is as stupid does, eh?

amanda88 · Jan 11, 2018

paradoxlost said:
How come people think you can't start seeds in large containers? The biggest container of them all is the ground where weed comes from. I don't get it. Same with clones. I get monitoring the development, but wtf guys. .

Sometimes this conventional wisdom from long time growers with no formal education is fucking stupid.

I'm doing an exact side by side test right now

as I had a few excess seeds

so far 10 liter pot versus the 4 inch pot

the 4 inch pot is about 3 weeks ahead of the larger pot

conclusion: the 4inch pot is about 5C warmer

in same place too

good luck with your 'learning'

paradoxlost · Jan 11, 2018

So it's just growing faster, but is it a more quality plant? Is the only metric of plant health growth rate? Or plant desirability? Is 10 liters even big enough to plant seeds into? Wouldn't you need something that is at least 25 gallons, more likely closer to 55, to mimic natural conditions indoors?

Your "side-by-side" test is in no way accurate or indicative of anything -- except maybe the difference in soil temperature in different sized pots growing cannabis.

SoulAnnoyed · Jan 27, 2018

As someone who hates transplanting, things seem to go better when you crowd the roots a bit. Of course I also convince myself to use the shortest widest pots to support my training methods. I start my seeds on paper towels and the faster the tap the deeper they are buried.

If I could sew, I'd probably be using fabric sapling pouches, germ in them. Not sure why they aren't produced. Maybe the roots are too fine and mesh with the fabric?

RumblefishTwist · Jan 27, 2018

paradoxlost said:
So it's just growing faster, but is it a more quality plant? Is the only metric of plant health growth rate? Or plant desirability? Is 10 liters even big enough to plant seeds into? Wouldn't you need something that is at least 25 gallons, more likely closer to 55, to mimic natural conditions indoors?

Your "side-by-side" test is in no way accurate or indicative of anything -- except maybe the difference in soil temperature in different sized pots growing cannabis.

My experience has shown a plant growing faster in smaller containers compared to those started in a bigger container. For me, that would be the main reason. The other is the luxury of dealing with a smaller volume of medium to keep saturated/fed/flushed, so there can be cost savings/efficiency as well. Those are both pretty damn good reasons to me.

I think you also need to keep in mind that we have folks doing their thing in a number of different types of environments with varying amounts of space and in different mediums.

RumblefishTwist · Jan 27, 2018

Essentially if you actually think about it, you can make a laundry list of reasons. Or you can call the method stupid and be a dick.

positivity · Jan 27, 2018

I use the smallest pot possible. Saves room and materials for when you really need them
I’m sure the commercial types could have a robot poke his finger in the dirt and a drone fly by and do pesticide foliars. Super efficient and no up potting

Betterhaff · Jan 29, 2018

I’ve started and grown seedlings in 6 pack cells used for vegetables and flowers, you know like the ones you get at the nursery. I’ve even grown some of them in those for a long time due to lack of space, time, or neglect. Pain in the ass as far watering but I always put a reservoir type container beneath it. A lot of times the roots start shooting out of the bottom of the cells and they definitely get root bound. When I transplant I tease the roots apart a bit and plant the root ball deep, inches or so deeper than the original stem / soil line. They may take a few days to rebound but never really had a problem with the health of the plants. Maybe not the best technique but the plants have always thrived, cannabis can be pretty hardy and tough.

If you want to talk about medium and nute use you can’t get much skimpier than that. Those cells probably hold a couple of tablespoons of medium each.

Lester Beans · Jan 29, 2018

Transplanting does not stunt or slow growth. Growth actually explodes after up potting.

How can someone say a side by side does not prove anything?

What a noob fest

Shmavis · Jan 29, 2018

paradoxlost said:
Yea the past couple go's we started 5 or so seeds in twenty gallons with cover crops. About to pop some beans in a 25 gallon

Scale?

That's one factor for me.

You say you started 5 seeds or so before, and soon will start ‘some' more.

Let’s say you’re popping 30 regular seeds. Why would you want to start them in large containers when you don’t know the sex? Let’s say you end up with 15 males in large containers. What a waste, right? Even if you plan to reuse the soil, that’s a lot of unnecessary extra work.

Lots of other reasons as others have said. But this says it best:

iTarzan said:
In the ground a seedling can shoot a tap root down as far as it wants and branch as far as it wants. It doesn't matter if the top part of the soil has minimal roots.

In a large pot the seedling shoots a tap root down as far as it wants and then branches out. You are losing the root space of much of the soil in the pot because the roots grow down and not up. When you start them in a small pot the root hits bottom and starts to grow around. You restrict it for a bit in a small container. When you up-pot the roots now can brach out and fill the next size container. When you finally up-pot to the large container you speak of that big pot has roots from top to bottom and the yield will be much bigger due to a larger rootmass than if you just started the seed in the large container to begin with.

That is the reason for up-potting.

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