P.L. HortiLED Top - time for LED to grow up?

Muleskinner · Feb 8, 2016

very exciting news this month - P.L. Lighting has introduced a new LED lamp for the professional horticulture market. They have not posted specs yet, they are showing the new lights at the European trade shows this month.

But right away you can see it's something totally new. For one, it's got passive cooling - no fans. No details on wattage or electrical requirements or spectrum yet. I love P.L., I'll probably try one of these ASAP:

There are 3 new "HortiLED" fixtures - the "Top" one is for flowering plants and veggies:

http://www.pllight.com/products/fixtures/hortiled-top/

http://www.hortidaily.com/article/23815/New-HortiLed-product-line-available-at-P.L.-Light-Systems

more - OK, I'll have to get a couple 240V outlets wired in my house:

http://urban-gro.com/2016/02/urban-...-new-led-portfolio-for-the-cannabis-industry/

Muleskinner · Mar 7, 2016

They released some specs - if they hold up this would blow everything else away - 320 watt light at 2.7 μmol/J efficiency……controllable spectrum, etc……maybe even 120V

http://www.pllight.com/products/fixtures/hortiled-top/

*edit - just heard from them - pricing will not be avaible for at least a month….the fixture is 38 inches long and weighs 14 pounds. 860 μmol/m2.s which should put it slightly below a 600w HPS for only 320 watts.

420empire · Mar 9, 2016

Wow, looks really nice, still want to see a pricetag on that light before dreaming about it..Petflora also posted something about light bars i think they are called Transcend Lighting, but not the same wattage.

Muleskinner · Mar 11, 2016

just talked to PL again - this light will not be shipping until August 2016. Could be a few more months before pricing comes out.

Sounds like it will be available with a 120V plug! If so it will definitely shake up the LED market. Of course the price will determine that. This is probably EU-made so it's going to cost more than Asia-sourced ones (all other LED's basically). Still, it's a nice niche - right in there between 400w and 600w HPS in capacity, 320 watts, should be good for tent growing.

Jonhx69 · Aug 4, 2016

Hi!
There are any new info?

I have the 93w. version and it's amazing, but it's like a supplement light, and now I don't know what is better, two Hortiled Top 320w. or 1 Fluence Spydrx Plus 660w, good thing on Spydrx it seems to be a nice coverage split over 4x4.

Arf · Aug 5, 2016

Muleskinner said:
They released some specs - if they hold up this would blow everything else away - 320 watt light at 2.7 μmol/J efficiency……controllable spectrum, etc……maybe even 120V

http://www.pllight.com/products/fixtures/hortiled-top/

*edit - just heard from them - pricing will not be avaible for at least a month….the fixture is 38 inches long and weighs 14 pounds. 860 μmol/m2.s which should put it slightly below a 600w HPS for only 320 watts.

A CXB3590 3000K does 3.02 μmol/J efficiency so they must be using inferior LEDs to Cree or over driving them. Cree's horticultural reference light is even better.

Muleskinner · Aug 5, 2016

I have not been able to get a price quoted on this fixture (HortiLED Top). I was disappointed to see in the specs that the 2.7 umol/J rating is only for the red/blue light, it's going to be lower for the full-spectrum version. As in not much better than HPS if at all.

I'm interested to see the price. If it only lasts 5 years then you're left with nothing after 5 years. With a 600w HPS I can run 2 bulbs for 5 years and then have a $300 working fixture left at the end.

If the price doesn't work in the commercial market they won't sell any. The P.L. 600w HSE HPS fixture is awesome, the best, and only costs $380. 1.85 umol/J full-spectrum efficiency. Another bulb at 2.5 years and you're up to $460 for 5 years of service. PL's manufacturing quality is #1, I have no doubt this fixture will be made in Holland and/or Canada and be very high build quality. But if the efficiency's not there I'm not spending a fortune on it.

HuffnPufferfish · Aug 8, 2016

does phillips? has something similair?

Muleskinner · Aug 8, 2016

I think Philips sells some LED strip-type lights but nothing like a 320W fixture. I wonder if PL gets their LED's from Philips. So these are basically passive COB fixtures. Most COB's have very little drop-off in light, it looks like PL is saying these are guaranteed to be at 90% or better after 25,000 hours. I wonder if they all drop to 90% or not. I would hope it lasts more than 5 years.

*edit...actually Hortiled uses 3w Osram diodes. Philips makes nice LED bars running on 240v, all less than 200 watts.

Dion · Aug 10, 2016

Muleskinner said:
I think Philips sells some LED strip-type lights but nothing like a 320W fixture. I wonder if PL gets their LED's from Philips. So these are basically passive COB fixtures. Most COB's have very little drop-off in light, it looks like PL is saying these are guaranteed to be at 90% or better after 25,000 hours. I wonder if they all drop to 90% or not. I would hope it would last more than 5 years.

nice find but yeah

so many nice led grow lights coming to marker now days, unfortunatley the umol/w still cant beat a CXB3590@1400mA or a Vero29 or a citizen CLU058

Limeygreen · Aug 10, 2016

PL uses osram diodes, I asked directly. They got a little upset when i suggested they would buy their diodes from their competition phillips.

Muleskinner · Aug 10, 2016

most interesting. It looks like the value is to large commercial ops who can order up the precise spectrum they want for a few hundred fixtures. On that note, it would be nice if P.L. offered a few UV diodes in the mix for flowering cannabis.

it doesn't look like this is aimed at flowering cannabis. PL knows they are supplying the cannabis industry as well, it's featured on their website. Looks more like a highly efficient veg light for commercial agricultural ops. When I talked to their reps they were pushing the NXT II 1000W HPS fixture for flowering cannabis.

Limeygreen · Aug 10, 2016

They are looking into uv lights within the fixtures, people have been asking them for it, where they are at they didn't say.

Arf · Aug 10, 2016

Limeygreen said:
They are looking into uv lights within the fixtures, people have been asking them for it, where they are at they didn't say.

UV is a waste of time and money.

See this thread
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=260046

Muleskinner · Aug 11, 2016

HPS contains a tiny amount of UV, that's all I'd like to see. I've never done any comparisons on cannabis. I have noticed a compelling difference among other garden plants I've grown.

My seedlings this spring that I grew under LED totally freaked out when they were put out in the sunlight - looked like UV burn. I did another batch under a mix of white LED and a Kessil H380 which has a few UV diodes in it.

Not only did the Kessil plants experience zero shock going into direct sun, they also gained extra colors to their leaves and a healthier, glossier look to the leaves (while still indoors). these were begonias and other ornamentals.

So it opened my eyes to the effects of UV. Have no proof of how it affects cannabis, but I'd like to see a trace added to LED lights the same way HPS has a slight amount of UV, just to cover the bases.

A couple businesses in CO are already advertising high altitude, sun-grown cannabis. Would be interesting to see the results. We've all been growing strains that evolved under breeders using 12/12 HPS light cycle. I'll bet the UV will have a much larger effect on landrace strains.

Arf · Aug 12, 2016

Muleskinner said:
HPS contains a tiny amount of UV, that's all I'd like to see. I've never done any comparisons on cannabis. I have noticed a compelling difference among other garden plants I've grown.

My seedlings this spring that I grew under LED totally freaked out when they were put out in the sunlight - looked like UV burn. I did another batch under a mix of white LED and a Kessil H380 which has a few UV diodes in it.

Not only did the Kessil plants experience zero shock going into direct sun, they also gained extra colors to their leaves and a healthier, glossier look to the leaves (while still indoors). these were begonias and other ornamentals.

So it opened my eyes to the effects of UV. Have no proof of how it affects cannabis, but I'd like to see a trace added to LED lights the same way HPS has a slight amount of UV, just to cover the bases.

A couple businesses in CO are already advertising high altitude, sun-grown cannabis. Would be interesting to see the results. We've all been growing strains that evolved under breeders using 12/12 HPS light cycle. I'll bet the UV will have a much larger effect on landrace strains.

You didn't read the thread I linked did you. It's been methodically tested. UV appears to be another stoners myth. The main claim being that it converts CBD to THC even if it were true. As pointed out in the thread, most landrace strains contain either none, or very little CBD. to have any significance on THC content. Also these things are not random, a specific chemical reaction which could be documented, and then tested in vitro by a lab would be required for credibility.

ie. which molecule is effected by what wavelength of UV and what exactly happens to it?
Until this is answered then it's not hard science, just speculation.

timmur · Aug 12, 2016

Arf said:
You didn't read the thread I linked did you. It's been methodically tested. UV appears to be another stoners myth. The main claim being that it converts CBD to THC even if it were true. As pointed out in the thread, most landrace strains contain either none, or very little CBD. to have any significance on THC content. Also these things are not random, a specific chemical reaction which could be documented, and then tested in vitro by a lab would be required for credibility.

ie. which molecule is effected by what wavelength of UV and what exactly happens to it?
Until this is answered then it's not hard science, just speculation.

Not likely to be a myth at all.

From Beta Test Team: here's the thread.

We think we just stumbled upon a reason why UV-B irradiance may increase THC, and this seems to be the first time anyone has suggested this (including in all published research we have reviewed): jasmonic acid pathway

It's been found that jasmonte (probably as jasonic acid) increases THC in Cannabis*, and the following figure shows how UV-B irradiance effects jasmonate in the plants (which would mean affecting the jasmonic acid pathway):

(From "Plants and Microclimate: A Quantitative Approach to Environmental Plant Physiology" [3rd Ed.])

And again here: UV-B & UV-A: Lamp ouptut and goal umol

This thread is not about UV-B and THC production as is so often discussed, even though such effect from UV-B in the context of this thread is very possible.

Instead, this thread is about providing a goal UV-B irradiance that has positive effects on plant physiology and growth, which is:
0.1 to 5 umol/s/area2

Muleskinner · Aug 13, 2016

Arf said:
You didn't read the thread I linked did you. It's been methodically tested. UV appears to be another stoners myth. The main claim being that it converts CBD to THC even if it were true. As pointed out in the thread, most landrace strains contain either none, or very little CBD. to have any significance on THC content. Also these things are not random, a specific chemical reaction which could be documented, and then tested in vitro by a lab would be required for credibility.

ie. which molecule is effected by what wavelength of UV and what exactly happens to it?
Until this is answered then it's not hard science, just speculation.

I did read the thread! I offer no opposition to what you're saying here - I've always been very happy with HPS-grown herb with no extra UV. Very high potency and amazing taste and smell.

It's speculation for cannabis but there's no question UV is important to other plants. Also if you're chasing the true organic goodness of nature then you need UV to simulate Jah sunlight!

Jonhx69 · Aug 20, 2016

More info. I got asking them from email:

[FONT=&quot]The release date will be around September 2016, they have different types of spectrum.

I asked them what I need for a 4x4 (1,2m.x 1,2m.) tent for flowering, they told me I only need one fixture [/FONT][FONT=&quot]called HORTILED Top Bloom.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"It will be available around end of September, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]At the moment it is the best LED fixture on the market, it has a efficiency of 2,7 umoll/watt, a normal 1000 watt fixtures has a efficiency of 1,9 umoll/watt, so you save around 40% of energy for the same light."

:woohoo:

[/FONT]

Muleskinner · Aug 21, 2016

For 4x4 wouldn't you need two 320 watt lights. One would be perfect for a 3X3. This light will do 860 umol, P.L.'s 600w HPS fixture does 1190. It weighs 8 pounds vs. 14.7 for each Hortiled fixture.

If they want our money they should make one specifically for cannabis flower and one for veg. It seems like most people want full spectrum LED for cannabis flower these days, right? The 2.7 umol/watt is for "blurple". Put some UV's in a dedicated cannabis model and price it under $400 and I'll be interested.

P.L. HortiLED Top - time for LED to grow up?

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