How do you get dense bud? Dwc indoors

bobert · Jun 12, 2017

Hey fellas,

I was wondering how you get dense buds.

I always end up with super fluffy stuff that's a real pain to trim. Every time with every strain I've grown it's extremely fluffy. Just got done trimming for over 20hrs on a single plant, it was huge but still, wayy too much time.

Using a single 5gal dwc bucket, gh nutes, with a 600w hps in an open closet. I'm thinking it's too warm in the room. It gets around 80-85f on hot days. I had a wall fan blowing at the space between the top of the plant and the light, but not directly on the girl. I was using a cool mist humidifier for a while until the plant got huge and raised the humidity on it's own. The light is an all-in-one ballast/light combo, I cut a hole and screwed in a computer fan on one side to cool it down.

I lst'd it about a foot out in every direction and trimmed 8 inches up so the lower portion wouldn't leave me with un-trimmable airy popcorn. The very top buds were ok to trim but below that it just kept getting worse.

If anyone has any ideas I'd like to hear 'em

Thanks :tiphat:

PDX Dopesmoker · Jun 12, 2017

The heat might be an issue, but if you want to compete on density with some of the super dense bud you've seen from other growers odds are you're going to need to use plant growth regulators which a lot of people consider nasty or at least suspect & unneccessary.
Are you conferenced about bud density because you're hoping to increase your per harvest yield or is it for another reason?

WelderDan · Jun 12, 2017

You did not mention the strain. Some strains just are not as dense as others. Heat will play into the equation as far as density goes with DWC. And you are at the upper limits of what DWC will tolerate in regards to root rot unless you are running a chiller. Just dropping your res temp 10 degrees would probably give you a bump in density if you aren't using a chiller.

If you are passively cooling the res by just setting on a bare concrete floor, you can insulate the sides and put a reflective cover on the top. A piece of white cardboard would work. Moving the air pump outside of the closet would also help,

bobert · Jun 12, 2017

I've used gravity in the past but quit once it was pulled from the shelves. I'd rather not use pgr's.

I'm not trying to compete with any other growers, and increased yield is nice but not what I'm after. I just find trimming dense buds is easier than fluffy stuff.

With dense buds I can usually hold the scissors aligned with the bud and trim away. It looks more 'uniformed' too

But with fluffy buds it seems like I need to get under the leaves and clip almost every leaf at the stem, then it has a choppy look.

I'm just trying to decrease my trimming time and make the appearance a little better.

I appreciate your reply

bobert · Jun 12, 2017

WelderDan said:
You did not mention the strain. Some strains just are not as dense as others. Heat will play into the equation as far as density goes with DWC. And you are at the upper limits of what DWC will tolerate in regards to root rot unless you are running a chiller. Just dropping your res temp 10 degrees would probably give you a bump in density if you aren't using a chiller.

If you are passively cooling the res by just setting on a bare concrete floor, you can insulate the sides and put a reflective cover on the top. A piece of white cardboard would work. Moving the air pump outside of the closet would also help,

I usually grow bagseed but every one I've grown was super fluffy. Never dense except the very top buds.

The bucket sits on a little stand with wheels so I can move it out of the closet to check on it.

Setting it directly on the floor sounds like it'll help, it's a concrete floor so it's most likely colder than the stand it's on.

I've used distilled water and ended up with some rot until I started using tap water. I'm assuming the chlorine or chloramine whatever is in the tap helped.

Thanks for your reply :tiphat:

WelderDan · Jun 12, 2017

bobert said:
I usually grow bagseed but every one I've grown was super fluffy. Never dense except the very top buds.

The bucket sits on a little stand with wheels so I can move it out of the closet to check on it.

Setting it directly on the floor sounds like it'll help, it's a concrete floor so it's most likely colder than the stand it's on.

I've used distilled water and ended up with some rot until I started using tap water. I'm assuming the chlorine or chloramine whatever is in the tap helped.

Thanks for your reply

No prob

DWC is very forgiving. Except for water temp. A warm rez in DWC is a problem. Getting the rez temp down will help. You will also get better dissolved O2 levels with a cooler rez, meaning better growth too.

Good Luck!

Lrus007 · Jun 12, 2017

drop your light closer to the tops.
i always burn 1-2 buds but is worth it.
good luck Lrus007

bobert · Jun 12, 2017

Lrus007 said:
drop your light closer to the tops.
i always burn 1-2 buds but is worth it.
good luck Lrus007

Thanks, I'll try that.

Beautiful picture. Nice and fat

WelderDan said:
No prob

DWC is very forgiving. Except for water temp. A warm rez in DWC is a problem. Getting the rez temp down will help. You will also get better dissolved O2 levels with a cooler rez, meaning better growth too.

Good Luck!

Yea, that's the only real problem I've had is my temps.

I'll do what you mentioned above and see how everything turns out next run!

WelderDan · Jun 12, 2017

bobert said:
Thanks, I'll try that.

Beautiful picture. Nice and fat

Yea, that's the only real problem I've had is my temps.

I'll do what you mentioned above and see how everything turns out next run!

In a pinch, you can put water in a few plastic soda bottles (16 oz) and freeze them. Toss a fresh one in the rez once or twice a day during lights on to drop the rez temps. It's a pain in the ass, but if you are fighting temps and trying to make it to harvest it works.

Speed of green · Jun 12, 2017

correcting temps and strain selection. Ive only produced fluffy flowers three times, once from too cold, once too hot and once from a nutrient lockout/burn that stunted the plant for a couple weeks.

can you post a picture of the bud structure?

bobert · Jun 12, 2017

WelderDan said:
In a pinch, you can put water in a few plastic soda bottles (16 oz) and freeze them. Toss a fresh one in the rez once or twice a day during lights on to drop the rez temps. It's a pain in the ass, but if you are fighting temps and trying to make it to harvest it works.

That sounds like a good idea. Since I check on it everyday I might as well do it while I'm there. Much cheaper than a chiller too :yes:

bobert · Jun 12, 2017

Speed of green said:
correcting temps and strain selection. Ive only produced fluffy flowers three times, once from too cold, once too hot and once from a nutrient lockout/burn that stunted the plant for a couple weeks.

can you post a picture of the bud structure?

Not sure how this will turn out because I'm on a cellphone right now but here it is. I'll take a better one when I have access to a better camera.

It's still drying just before jarring. The bigger bud is one of the tops and the smaller bud is a fluffy one. The nodes of the smaller buds are spaced pretty far apart.

PDX Dopesmoker · Jun 12, 2017

They sure look frosty enough anyway

DocTim420 · Jun 12, 2017

I suggest investigating a flower hardener like GrowMore's Mendocino Avalanche. A couple of treatments about 3 weeks before harvest does wonders. Just don't do it too early as the bud will kinda "dud out" and not swell up by harvest day.

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-Mendocino-Avalanche-1qt/dp/B0055QN3VC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497274100&sr=8-1&

Realize this--the product is made in California, the land of tough/restrictive labeling laws, and on the label--in big words--it says: Flower Hardener

bobert · Jun 12, 2017

PDX Dopesmoker said:
They sure look frosty enough anyway

I appreciate that. It's defiantly not lacking in that department.

DocTim420 said:
I suggest investigating a flower hardener like GrowMore's Mendocino Avalanche. A couple of treatments about 3 weeks before harvest does wonders. Just don't do it too early as the bud will kinda "dud out" and not swell up by harvest day.

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-Mendocino-Avalanche-1qt/dp/B0055QN3VC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497274100&sr=8-1&

Realize this--the product is made in California, the land of tough/restrictive labeling laws, and on the label--in big words--it says: Flower Hardener

View Image

Thanks, I'll check that out.

Here's some better quality pictures if anyone is interested.

Speed of green · Jun 13, 2017

The one on the left looks like it may have dense little buds, but they look as if they never filled out. the one on the right looks like it didnt get much light/ didnt fill out.

are you seeing anything other than healthy green growth during flower? any yellowing or nute burn?

What e.c are you feeding? sometimes feeding high ec will discourage growth.

Feeding the right amount or slightly less can make the plant a little hungry and you will see vigorus growth, the plant taking advantage of what little nutrients it does have.

you said you were using GH series. I think the standard formula runs high N, that can inhibit flower production. Look up Lucas formula 6:9 it uses the GH nutrients in different ratios more in tune with the cannabis requirements.

Also it sounds like you have a large plant with a large deep canopy.

600's arent really known for light penetration and tend to work better with a well managed trained canopy/SOG/SCROG.

to take advantage of the light your canopy should be no more than 15-20" deep.

Also you mentioned lollipopping the plants, in most scenarios this shouldnt be a problem but if you are doing it in flower or right before you flip it can stunt the growth pretty drastically.

make sure you do most of your training in veg, once you get to flower you treat her like a princess, dont stress her out.

hope this helps. Stay positive and focus on healthy plants, everything else will come in time.

Loc Dog · Jun 13, 2017

DWC water should be 65 to 72 degrees. Nasty stuff will grow over 72, and DO goes down drastically below 65.

This is a VPD chart. STaying in the gold zone will produce the best plants -

Loc Dog · Jun 13, 2017

DocTim420 said:
I suggest investigating a flower hardener like GrowMore's Mendocino Avalanche. A couple of treatments about 3 weeks before harvest does wonders. Just don't do it too early as the bud will kinda "dud out" and not swell up by harvest day.

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-Mendocino-Avalanche-1qt/dp/B0055QN3VC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497274100&sr=8-1&

Realize this--the product is made in California, the land of tough/restrictive labeling laws, and on the label--in big words--it says: Flower Hardener

View Image

Do you know what ingredient it contains that California considers a carcinogen? Someone suggested that it is chlormequat chloride.

DocTim420 · Jun 13, 2017

Hard to say, California Prop 65 list of natural and synthetic chemicals that cause cancer or birth defects includes almost everything from aspirin to Riedel Crystal stemware.

https://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65/chemicals/aspirin

http://www.riedel.com/fileadmin/page_content/flip/warning65/files/assets/basic-html/page5.html

benjuanman · Jun 13, 2017

Yeah agree on using iced water bottles for ur Rez. Done it myself worked. I used the GH 3 part flora series and it is high in N and my buds were held back until I changed to Lucas formula with powdered Koolbloom and silica. Buds were dense easy trimming. Urs definitely have a nice sugar coating on them

How do you get dense bud? Dwc indoors

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