very low efficiency with QUISO?!

Hey guys,


Maybe somebody can help me out here, I am getting very bad extraction rates with my QUISO extract. Only slightly more than a quarter of the cannabinoids is extracted (end product is satisfying though).


The material I used for extraction were some flowers of medium potency and 99% isopropanol. I put the flowers as well as the isopropanol into the freezer for a couple of hours. Then I put the whole flowers into a bowl, covered it with the alcohol and stirred for 2 minutes.



When I looked at the remaining flower material under a 30x microscope I didn't note any difference, I imagined that there must be less trichomes but mostly they seemed intact and there was not really any visual change of the buds. So I got a bit suspicious and had the buds lab-checked after the iso had evaporated. And turns out that 73% of the cannabinoids were still in the buds I had washed.


Since alcohol is supposed to be a good solvent for cannabinoids I don't really understand why my extraction rate is that bad. Would it take more time? Or is it the saturation rate of isopropanol, therefore the need of much more? Or is the fault of the low temperatures (though those in my understanding should mainly affect the pureness of the extract, less the efficiency).


Any ideas would be highly appreciated as I feel a little lost here and would really like to know what's the problem and how to increase efficiency to do more extracts in the future.

What's your yield in percentage?

If you're really just stirring there's your problem. You still need energy for a reaction - for the alcohol to do its work. You should be putting the flower/alcohol in something like a mason jar, soak for ~10 seconds and shake the hell out of it for ~30 seconds, no longer.

Oddity said:

If you're really just stirring there's your problem. You still need energy for a reaction - for the alcohol to do its work. You should be putting the flower/alcohol in something like a mason jar, soak for ~10 seconds and shake the hell out of it for ~30 seconds, no longer.

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(can't edit posts yet)


Also, make sure you are breaking down your bud as much as possible to get as much surface area exposed. I recommend cutting up with clean scissors after freezing.

I'm no chemist but I'm pretty sure alcohol extraction from plant matter is not an endothermic reaction (it's also many chemical reactions happening at once I guess), and as such it doesn't require external energy sources to happen. The frozen product melting at room temp is, for example, an endothermic reaction, it absorbs heat from it's surroundings, making the air cooler.


Anyway, 2-3 minutes is what's usually done for QWET, while for QWISO 30s is more common. Check skunkpharmresearch qwiso/qwet tutorials if you haven't done so already.



As for cutting, that depends on your goals. In my case, when I do a solvent extraction it's because I want to get some tasty super potent thing to dab on, so I strive for maximum purity. With that in mind, it doesn't make sense to cut anything, as you will be breaking cell walls/membranes and allowing your alcohol to get to a bunch of chlorophyll molecules you don't want in your final product (it will be darker, harsher, taste like ass, irritate your throat...).



What I do is I either leave buds as they are or break them up by hand. When I was doing qwiso I would freeze the alcohol, the weed, and any jars/filters. Then mix the alcohol with the nugs and shake vigorously for like 5 seconds, put back in the freezer, and filter after 30s. With this method using good buds you still get 15-25%returns of pristine, smooth, sweet, celestial concentrate.


If you want orals/topicals that's another story, then you just want to maximize extractionn and it's ok to sacrifice the purity a bit more by cutting/grinding. Given your description though, I don't think that your problem is you're not cutting your buds.

Oddity said:

(can't edit posts yet)

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You need 50 posts before you can edit and send PM's.

Tanks for the replies!

TheGrandmaGrows said:

What's your yield in percentage?

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As said in my first post, I yield 27%. But not 27% of the dry mass, just 27% of the cannabinoids in the flowers (had them lab checked therefore I can state those numbers)

Oddity said:

If you're really just stirring there's your problem. You still need energy for a reaction - for the alcohol to do its work. You should be putting the flower/alcohol in something like a mason jar, soak for ~10 seconds and shake the hell out of it for ~30 seconds, no longer.

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Does it really need that much energy to make QUISO? Thought that stirring for a slightly longer time would give me the same result. Will certainly give shaking a try!

Hello, I've been reading about how to make RSO and here's what I found,



https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Rick-Simpson-Oil


This method uses two cycles of solvent. Not sure how you'd convert the RSO to QUISO.

It's the first time I've ever seen extraction yield reported as % cannabinoids from the total cannabinoids present in the sample. I don't know if that's common but it's just odd to me. You didn't weight the material and concentrate? It may be informative even if you have data on the actual percentage of cannabinoids.



On another note, I would freeze more like 2 days instead of 2 hours. Not related to your yield though, just a tip.

troutman said:

You need 50 posts before you can edit and send PM's.

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Aye, slowly but surely! Thank you.

SeedySimon said:

Does it really need that much energy to make QUISO? Thought that stirring for a slightly longer time would give me the same result. Will certainly give shaking a try!

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I'm just thinking back to what I learned, but it's been many years since I've made any. Grandma posted some great information - I'd follow her advice!

This was done with everclear 90 proof.

Really, you dont want to use ISO.
Using ISO has harmed countless people by destroying their liver and kidneys - ISO is poisonous and bound to the alcohol molecule so you cant purge it - it stays in the final product.

ONLY use food grade ethanol (vodka)

For golden gelcaps, i soak for a minute.
Then i do another wash for dark caps and let that soak for hours or days while shaking.

Old thread...

Definitely ditch the iso for ethanol, good call there @Thcvhunter. Iso does damage over time, especially when ingested or used frequently on large areas of skin.

Also look at the allowable margin of error for the lab testing. It can be 15% here, that I am aware of, so their numbers might be off quite a bit.