The Compound...

packerfan79 said:

Swapmeet, awesome to see a good ol' vert thread. Ichy, and DHF were integral in getting me to ditch the reflector years back. I see some serious dank in your future.

I look forward to the process and progression.

Click to expand...

Thanks bro... I am thankful to have some vert vets in my corner....especially these two.

Swap

Hey Freds,

I hope you had a great day grillin and chillin with the family...family time is my favorite time...

I am wondering if I can clone directly into these little guys...



Then when roots are busting out everywhere, place the whole bag into the 2 gallon fabric pots ftw. I can get these little guys cheaper than the clear cups...and no worries about transplant shock or any downtime.. Also, I can plant the bag at a 45 degree angle, to get that plants at that 45 degree angle you suggested...and keep the mainstem above the dripper spray... everything you suggested I think I'll go with the 2 gal fabric pots rather than the 1 gal because it seemed like you were against the 1 gal lol... I wouldn't mind 4 feedings per day during lights on in the 1 gal if it was only one more time than the 2 gal... Like HGO said in his thread, these are like bodybuilder bitches....they thrive on several small feedings per day... What do you think about 1. little fabric clone bags to root/veg for a couple weeks in before planting the whole bag at a 45 degree angle into 2. a 1g fabric or 2 gal fabric bag to flower in?




Thanks,

Swap

clone bags

clone bags

In their literature they have pictures of pretty good size cuttings, and pictures of the entire bag being planted.... It seems persuasive...lol

Aight....Gonna haveta rest after that damn boy of mine run me around this weekend....and let me just say that I`m sick of fuckin seafood.....for a couple days at least.....Got talked into goin to the shrimp docks so he could haul some home with him this morning , so we did....Got there and a lil Vietnamese captain had his wife and sons just pullin up and all but begged us to buy theirs before they went to the processor inside , and I said sure as long as they don`t get pissed.....so after seein what they had and negotiating price , I filled up 2 Yeti coolers with 20 lbs each of U-10`s is what he was callin em….200 bucks with the heads popped off while we waited a few minutes , not long at all , and they supplied the ice too.....5 bucks a lb out the door and we went straight back home , got the food saver out and vacuum packed that shit and mine went in the chest freezer ….did I say I`m sick of seafood.....now....where were we.....

OK.....let`s back up a second and talk about these racks.....The reason Heath built em angled was so the racks would cradle and hold the container while allowing 360 degrees of plant to be exposed to the lights instead of the popular at the time "stadium setups" with staggered back levels , but the backsides of the plants hadta be hacked out and done away with for the front sides to yield anything worth a damn.....that said...…

By week 5 all my plants were droopin and I hadta string horti-trellis all the way round from the ceilings for the end colas to rest in till end of cycle , so if you use smaller bags flat on a shelf and stick em sideways like Icky said , I`d say they`ll need support immediately from the get , but that`s another 1 of those X factors to be dealt with since I`ve never done it that way and can only specify my shit.....but hey....

First time I ever saw Heath run straight 12/12 from seed with fully rooted cuts to fill in the gaps for a pheno hunt on 1 of his strains he was reworking , he ran 2 levels of flat shelves around a 4 x 6 walk in cooler with 2-600`s side by side , and killed it as usual but if memory serves it was bunches of plantlets....I wanna say 87 and don`t know why that number pops out but it matters not.....was the first time I realized increased plant numbers determined yields in smaller areas....and that might be an option for you to test drive the setup while finding phenos for monocroppin.....now....them lil grow bags for cuts.....

I unno Bro....get some and try em out then we`ll all know , but.....I`m a big fan of smaller containers like the clear cups before up potting to the finish containers , cuz when I transplant I drown the cups then pop em out and rip up the roots and spread em out into a bed of 1/2 the bag already full of medium , then fill the bag up the rest of the way all the way to the hilt right under where the cotyledons were , then soak em in and let em dry some for the roots to start movin around and settin but not so dry as to allow salt residue to develop.....

Remember I said "moist" always with coco , and I guess my concern with those lil bags for cuts would be root restriction for the most part when they really need ta spread sideways to be good feeder and anchor roots , so IOW.....I don`t like em unless they biodegrade fast and go away once transplanted , I see em as a hindrance but I`ve been wrong before.....aight....I still gotta get to the pm so talk later and.....

Peace....DHF..... …….

I like clear cups for roots as well. It allows me to see the roots develop. It also allows me to see if the bottom of the cup has to much water. Knowing this allows me to skip watering or add watering when needed.

I am a fan of pruning when a plant goes into flower. So hacking off one side does not bother me. If the plant has more roots than foliage it will compensate by growing more foliage. With this in mind I clip all bud sites but the last one or two on a branch. This directs the growth to the tips where the buds are.

I select the bud sites I want to grow. If it is going to be shaded I remove that branch. If the branch is not at least 1/4 the diameter of the branch it comes from I remove that branch as well.

Now when I remove these bud sites I try to save the fan leaf that is there. This will feed the bud site till it grows. And with 5, 6, 7 or more fans they grow very healthy large buds. Latter as the bud sites grow these fans will get shaded and possible die but I dont care since they helped boost the growth of the part I wanted most. The buds.

So again I am a fan of selective pruning when they first go into flower. So that said I dont have a problem with the pot being flat and not tilted.

But DHF is right on the little bags. The roots could get diverted back into the pot and not spread out where you need them most. Which is the bigger pot out side the bag.

Ichabod Crane said:

I like clear cups for roots as well. It allows me to see the roots develop. It also allows me to see if the bottom of the cup has to much water. Knowing this allows me to skip watering or add watering when needed.

I am a fan of pruning when a plant goes into flower. So hacking off one side does not bother me. If the plant has more roots than foliage it will compensate by growing more foliage. With this in mind I clip all bud sites but the last one or two on a branch. This directs the growth to the tips where the buds are.

I select the bud sites I want to grow. If it is going to be shaded I remove that branch. If the branch is not at least 1/4 the diameter of the branch it comes from I remove that branch as well.

Now when I remove these bud sites I try to save the fan leaf that is there. This will feed the bud site till it grows. And with 5, 6, 7 or more fans they grow very healthy large buds. Latter as the bud sites grow these fans will get shaded and possible die but I dont care since they helped boast the growth of the part I wanted most. The buds.

So again I am a fan of selective pruning when they first go into flower. So that said I dont have a problem withe the pot being flat and not tilted.

But DHF is right on the little bags. The roots could get diverted back into the pot and not spread out where you need them most. Which is the bigger pot out side the bag.

Click to expand...

You`re growin way bigger plants though Ickster…..Yas can`t do that with 30- 32-36" plants and smaller and expect em to recover and make anything till end of cycle right ?......but selective pruning on bigger plants where sucker branches get taken out are what I`ve always preached from the get ,but again.....more little plants.....less bigger plants.....2 different animals.....


Peace.....DHF...… …...

DHF...Ichy....preach brothers....
I wanna here more about stripping the branch B4 flw. And just leaving that one or 2 bud sites ......might be time for some PMs to Ichy and DHF....good shit boys!!!

DunHav`nFun said:

You`re growin way bigger plants though Ickster…..Yas can`t do that with 30- 32-36" plants and smaller and expect em to recover and make anything till end of cycle right ?......but selective pruning on bigger plants where sucker branches get taken out are what I`ve always preached from the get ,but again.....more little plants.....less bigger plants.....2 different animals.....


Peace.....DHF...… …...

Click to expand...

True I grow bigger plants. But I am just leaving the fan where you pull the suckers off. So say a branch has 5 suckers and the growth tip. I take the 5 suckers and leave there fan leaves. Now those 5 fans will be feeding the tips. It is less damaging than lolli popping is to your growth. As you know when you lollipop a plant you remove everything down low. I just leave all the fans when I lollipop a plant.

Besides the first couple bud sites right where a branch forms never really develop anyway. You just get small buds or larf in these sites.

I am really not doing anymore than what you would do just leaving the fan leaf when you take the sucker off.

But on my bigger plants I cut off about half the plant.

DunHav`nFun said:

OK.....let`s back up a second and talk about these racks.....The reason Heath built em angled was so the racks would cradle and hold the container while allowing 360 degrees of plant to be exposed to the lights instead of the popular at the time "stadium setups" with staggered back levels , but the backsides of the plants hadta be hacked out and done away with for the front sides to yield anything worth a damn.....that said...…

By week 5 all my plants were droopin and I hadta string horti-trellis all the way round from the ceilings for the end colas to rest in till end of cycle , so if you use smaller bags flat on a shelf and stick em sideways like Icky said , I`d say they`ll need support immediately from the get , but that`s another 1 of those X factors to be dealt with since I`ve never done it that way and can only specify my shit.....but hey....

First time I ever saw Heath run straight 12/12 from seed with fully rooted cuts to fill in the gaps for a pheno hunt on 1 of his strains he was reworking , he ran 2 levels of flat shelves around a 4 x 6 walk in cooler with 2-600`s side by side , and killed it as usual but if memory serves it was bunches of plantlets....I wanna say 87 and don`t know why that number pops out but it matters not.....was the first time I realized increased plant numbers determined yields in smaller areas....and that might be an option for you to test drive the setup while finding phenos for monocroppin.....now....them lil grow bags for cuts.....

I unno Bro....get some and try em out then we`ll all know , but.....I`m a big fan of smaller containers like the clear cups before up potting to the finish containers , cuz when I transplant I drown the cups then pop em out and rip up the roots and spread em out into a bed of 1/2 the bag already full of medium , then fill the bag up the rest of the way all the way to the hilt right under where the cotyledons were , then soak em in and let em dry some for the roots to start movin around and settin but not so dry as to allow salt residue to develop.....

Remember I said "moist" always with coco , and I guess my concern with those lil bags for cuts would be root restriction for the most part when they really need ta spread sideways to be good feeder and anchor roots , so IOW.....I don`t like em unless they biodegrade fast and go away once transplanted , I see em as a hindrance but I`ve been wrong before.....aight....I still gotta get to the pm so talk later and.....

Peace....DHF..... …….

Click to expand...

I had the same concern about root restriction maybe I'll buy a couple for an experiment down the road, but right now, the bags are out and clear cups it is...

Seafood is a plenty for you, that is true....lol

I think Icky was making the point that to achie ve the 45 degree angle you are after, instead of tilting the whole pot 45 degrees in order for the plant to be at a 45 degree angle, I can just keep the bag straight up, and during the transplant into the final bag.... plant the plant at a 45 degree angle so you get an upright bag, easy for even watering, and the 45 degree plant angle you want for the 360 degree light coverage.

Swap

Now that the mini clone bags are out....one baggy question looms....

1 gallon or two gallon flower bags? My watering will obviously be automated, and I'll be at the grow location daily, if that helps. I am shooting for 1-2 zips per plant...

Swap

ps... no mater what, it seems like I will need Freds' favorit chicken wire on the roof, or something to tie these things to...

Swapmeet what are those little clone bags called I can't find them on my googler.

thank you for all this discussion, learning so much
please, carry on

Cantharellus said:

Swapmeet what are those little clone bags called I can't find them on my googler.

Click to expand...

They just call them TERMATH Biodegradable Non-woven Nursery Bags/seedling bags...

Swap

swapmeet said:

Now that the mini clone bags are out....one baggy question looms....

1 gallon or two gallon flower bags? My watering will obviously be automated, and I'll be at the grow location daily, if that helps. I am shooting for 1-2 zips per plant...

Swap

ps... no mater what, it seems like I will need Freds' favorit chicken wire on the roof, or something to tie these things to...

Click to expand...

Fred said if you go with the larger bag you have added safety if your pump does not work for some reason. I hand water and run bigger plants so I can not help you with this.

I use foil covered plywood as my ceiling. Then I can screw into it where ever I need something. When done I pull the screw and cover the hole with foil tape.

Ichabod Crane said:

Fred said if you go with the larger bag you have added safety if your pump does not work for some reason. I hand water and run bigger plants so I can not help you with this.

I use foil covered plywood as my ceiling. Then I can screw into it where ever I need something. When done I pull the screw and cover the hole with foil tape.

Click to expand...

True. He used 5g...but he was only at the grow location weekly, whereas I will be there daily (likely twice per day). If there is a pump malfunction, I will see it within a few hours..... so if that is the only reason, I would go with the 1g because I can easily fit two per cubby on these racks I bought and slightly modified. I can also fit 2 x 2g bags per cubby, but it would be a tight squeeze... still doable and I am willing to go either way... the key is the 1-2 zips per plant...I figure they can be about 26" each...



They are about 4' tall, so if I outline a 4x4 area with them... I might be able to dangle a single 600w hps in the middle.

If not, I can stack 315 CMH lights I've got, and worse case scenario, I can stack 600w HPS.

I am trying to get the most efficient way to 1-2 oz per plant. There will be a lot of variables to dial in, but that will come with patience and runs under the old proverbial belt.

Freds and I are also discussing a different setup to try in my experiment room... exciting things happening at the compound. I appreciate all the input and kind words.... Let's dial this thing.

Swap

Here are the young mothers...progressing....

My racks were @ 18-36-54-and 72" with 3-eye horti 600`s set @ 2-4-and 6' with ceilings @90" covered in reflectix…..the rooms themselves were 8 x 8 with 1' angled racks built in making the interior 6 x 6 with all back walls covered in reflectix including the angled corners to bounce light up , down , and all around while any light that got past the plants would be reflected right back at em for constantly being bathed in light 360 degrees and top to bottom....that said.....

The flat shelves you show will hold plants no problem , but what will you hold each and every plant up with when you stick em sideways in the bags and they`re beggin to fall slap over and pull your fabric pots down on the floor with em…...jus sayin Bro.....IOW.....

Those smaller bags don`t weigh shit and the plant mass with foliage will far outweigh the weight of the bag even full of medium and roots as they stretch , so be smart and get ready to hang horti trellis or build grids around your shelves like scroggers do with 1 and 2 level grids/nets to hold up heavy ass colas.....but that`s just me , especially if them bitches were hangin sideways.....anyways.....

Said in pm I was gonna walk my bulldawg and go feed my crabtraps , but saw this and wanted to respond while it was fresh in this pore `ol head....

Peace….DHF...… …..

DunHav`nFun said:

My racks were @ 18-36-54-and 72" with 3-eye horti 600`s set @ 2-4-and 6' with ceilings @90" covered in reflectix…..the rooms themselves were 8 x 8 with 1' angled racks built in making the interior 6 x 6 with all back walls covered in reflectix including the angled corners to bounce light up , down , and all around while any light that got past the plants would be reflected right back at em for constantly being bathed in light 360 degrees and top to bottom....that said.....

The flat shelves you show will hold plants no problem , but what will you hold each and every plant up with when you stick em sideways in the bags and they`re beggin to fall slap over and pull your fabric pots down on the floor with em…...jus sayin Bro.....IOW.....

Those smaller bags don`t weigh shit and the plant mass with foliage will far outweigh the weight of the bag even full of medium and roots as they stretch , so be smart and get ready to hang horti trellis or build grids around your shelves like scroggers do with 1 and 2 level grids/nets to hold up heavy ass colas.....but that`s just me , especially if them bitches were hangin sideways.....anyways.....

Said in pm I was gonna walk my bulldawg and go feed my crabtraps , but saw this and wanted to respond while it was fresh in this pore `ol head....

Peace….DHF...… …..

Click to expand...

I take your point... I didn't even consider the sides of the bags. Just to be clear to those reading, I am talking about planting the plants vertically still, just tilted at a 45 degree angle so it is natural to grow upward as well as outward, past the edge of the shelf above it and up to the bottom of the first bud site of the plant above them.

This will require the perfect-ish amount of veg time, which will take some runs to dial... which brings me to a couple questions:

1. Would you recommend that wire trellis with square holes that are about 3 inches square or so on an Icky-style holder in front of the racks (rather than Icky's behind them)?

2. If I cover the face of the the racks in that reflectix foam with slits for the plants to come through? This way the reflectix is right behind the plant, and if I cut the slit top to bottom for about 6 inches, the bottom of the slit can kind of cradle the mainstem a little...

Thanks,

Swap

The Quad

The Quad

I was mentioning that I think I can have the 4 shelves of plants on these racks, that are in a 4'x4' area, and are 4' tall... with an inner diameter of 3x3' and I think a single vertical 600hps can light that area well with a 3x3 inner diameter, that is 9 square feet of growing area with a 600w hps, makes it 600/9 or 66.67 watts/square foot.

A visual interpretation of my racks is as follows:

Luckily, for the sake of convenience, these floor tiles are 2'x2':



As you can see, the big rack is exactly 4' long:




This is how it looks with two of the long racks:



Each of the cubbies are 16" wide, and the one gallon pots are about 5.5" in diameter, while the two gallons are 7.87" diameter. Based on what Freds was saying about the 1g being too light even with the roots and coco, I think I'll go with the two gallon...

That notwithstanding, since the big racks encroach a little of the space on the ends, they required a bit shorter racks... so this is three sides of the quad:



So if I can fit two 2g grow bags per cubby, and there are 12 cubbies on the large racks, and 8 on the end racks, that is a total of 40 cubbies, or 80 plants.

There are a shit-ton of variables that need to be seen, tweaked, and dialed....and that is going to take some runs...

veg time, shape, strain characteristics will all play their hand...but I think that each plant can be a little 26" or so christmas tree, a zip+ per plant is doable. I am open-minded enough to let my plan evolve based on some of the great advice from the vert experts, and trials and errors through the dialing runs/process.

I have seen some great results out of those dual 315w CMH lights, so my dream would be to stack a couple of those in the middle of one of these quads and still hit a zip+ of super frosty nugs per plant... all will be revealed in time...

Swap

@ Dead Head Fred

we grow different styles , but I think we come from a similar background & you got a metric sh*t ton of knowledge stored up in that freaky head of yurz ..please keep the flow on ...thanks