Cannabis virus?

art.spliff · Apr 9, 2019

Hi,

Curious if anyone has experience with a plant or grow being affected by a virus?

I bought some clones that I somewhat neglected by waiting several days to transplant, planted some too deep thinking adventitious roots would grow. Wasn't checking pH or conductivity of tap water, irregular feeding. It has been a while since I've grown and they certainly could have used more attention.

One or more of the older plants started to get yellowing and dying leaves from the bottom up, until dead. In an unusual experiment (not necessarily intentional) I noticed that a root ball of an infected plant laid on top of a root ball of a healthy plant can cause the healthy plant to become sick and die.

A transplant to hydro did not save the dying plants, it almost looks like the older plants died from age although it could be too severe root removal, and the other younger plants in shared hydro do not appear sick at least at the moment.

Aside from these observations and an irregular watering/feeding/organic mite control schedule I'm not too sure what it could be. Bugs in the roots, an infection, maybe just old neglected plants?

A big concern is whether or not, and/or how to, quarantine all of this, or move all plants/mothers outside. The last thing I want is for my new seedlings to somehow become infected by these old plants.

Edit: Plants that did not survive may well have been my own doing entirely. Grower error could be the cause, not any kind of virus. I planted some with the rooting cube way beneath the soil line thinking adventitious roots would grow but I don't think that works well with cannabis.

Cannabis Clone Care
https://darkheartnursery.com/news/cannabis-clone-care/

brluban · Apr 9, 2019

Huh, I read an article recently that a big nursery identified a viriod that was going through a lot of stock. Not sure if they had similar symptoms but...

art.spliff · Apr 9, 2019

This one? Dark Heart Nursery Identifies Cannabis Pathogen, Hop Latent Viroid

https://darkheartnursery.com/news/hop-latent-viroid/

03.04.19

Dark Heart Nursery Identifies New Pathogen, Creates Patent-Pending Process for Testing and Eliminating Cannabis "Dudding"

Research Started in 2017, with 31 Varietals Cured To Date

Project Lead Dr. Jeremy Warren Joins Dark Heart Nursery as Director of Plant Health

OAKLAND, Calif., (March 4, 2019) — Dark Heart Nursery (DHN) proudly announced today that it is the first organization to positively identify hop latent viroid (HpLVd), previously identified as Putative Cannabis Infectious Agent (PCIA), as the cause of “dudding” in cannabis. Since 2018, DHN has also been successfully testing for and eliminating HpLVd through a patent-pending clean plant process...

Sport Farmer · Apr 9, 2019

So that article is basically saying... "Hey look guys, we figured out what's causing duds and we've already fixed a bunch of plants, but were not going to tell you any info on how/what to fix it... Just wanted everyone to know how great we are and to contact us for the info to repair it so we can charge you an arm and a leg."

Patent pending is the key words in this article... Of course... It's always about cashing in on other peoples misfortunes, first and foremost...

Cool... :bow:

art.spliff · Apr 9, 2019

It would be nice to know which plants were found to have this and what they used to "cure" them. In truth I would prefer to grow varieties that have not been affected.

Monocropping in general is a mistake. Ridding the soil habitat of microbial life is another mistake.

Suggesting that cannabis plants are infected and must be bathed in antibiotic and antiviral drugs in a petri dish, before being grown? I think I'll pass. I wonder which of their currently available clones have gone through this process if any?

slownickel · Apr 9, 2019

art.spliff said:
It would be nice to know which plants were found to have this and what they used to "cure" them. In truth I would prefer to grow varieties that have not been affected.

I wonder which of their currently available clones have gone through this process if any?

I was in Darkheart a couple weeks of go. First we cut open stumps from old Mom's. All had rot from the bottom of where the initial clone cut was made and was quite present in the end of the stump.

All the branches that I felt were hollow.

When we finally made it to the clone area, we cut open "duds" or discards. All had no callus and full of rot.

When they finally let me cut a "good" clone. All had rot, just less of it. Every nursery I have been to so far in Cali..... all the same.

The virus that they "found" in post meristem culture, was a Hops latent virus, they call it dudding. We have seen plants that whole branches would die off. We outran it by pushing vigor, getting Ca up, taking off the best cut, pushing that cut and then taking a new cut of those most vigorous growth. No more dudding.

The lack of science and understanding in this biz is silly. :moon:

slownickel · Apr 9, 2019

art.spliff said:
Hi,

Curious if anyone has experience with a plant or grow being affected by a virus?

I obtained some clones (1 gallon plants) that were tended to regularly, perhaps somewhat neglected, it has been a while since I've grown and they certainly could have used more attention.

One or more of the older plants started to get yellowing and dying leaves from the bottom up, until dead. In an unusual experiment (not necessarily intentional) I noticed that a root ball of an infected plant laid on top of a root ball of a healthy plant can cause the healthy plant to become sick and die.

A transplant to hydro did not save the dying plants, it almost looks like the older plants died from age although it could be too severe root removal, and the other younger plants in shared hydro do not appear sick at least at the moment.

Aside from these observations and an irregular watering/feeding/organic mite control schedule I'm not too sure what it could be. Bugs in the roots, an infection, maybe just old neglected plants?

A big concern is whether or not, and/or how to, quarantine all of this, or move all plants/mothers outside. The last thing I want is for my new seedlings to somehow become infected by these old plants.

A phosphorus deficiency can give you the same symptoms if your salt levels are too high....

art.spliff · Apr 9, 2019

Thank you for replying slownickel I appreciate it. I wanted to be very careful with my wording as I have respect for those involved, it is challenging work. If you're saying that healthy vigorous growth may be able to outrun this rot I think I may take my change with that, keeping all cuttings isolated from my seed plants.

art.spliff · Apr 9, 2019

slownickel said:
The lack of science and understanding in this biz is silly.

I think science is helpful, perhaps not always. I read and listened to soil science professors for years. It is a big step, and also apparent, to realize a person with a textbook in one hand and a bag of chemicals in the other hand isn't someone to be listening to.

One's relationship with money or view about the dollar, currency may affect opinions about agriculture or agricultural views as these chemicals are bought and sold. In truth higher education comes from and/or with a side or a view historically advocating chemicals to my knowledge. I've yet to see a Cornell or UC Davis department of organic biology or biodiversity section with petroleum involvement defined as for the public.

slownickel · Apr 9, 2019

art.spliff said:
I think science is helpful, perhaps not always. I read and listened to soil science professors for years. It is a big step, and also apparent, to realize a person with a textbook in one hand and a bag of chemicals in the other hand isn't someone to be listening to.

One's relationship with money or view about the dollar, currency may affect opinions about agriculture or agricultural views as these chemicals are bought and sold. In truth higher education comes from and/or with a side or a view historically advocating chemicals to my knowledge. I've yet to see a Cornell or UC Davis department of organic biology or biodiversity section with petroleum involvement defined as for the public.

My soils professor was and still is an idiot. Never farmed a day in his life. He taught us the right way and then told us that those concepts (Albrecht/Tiedjens) are antiquated. Turns out those concepts are the only thing that does work! Sent him hundreds upon hundreds of soil analysis, yield data and showed him our experiments on thousands of acres of sugar cane. He only chuckled.

New school is wrong. Ratios will forever be the real science. A lot of the old science is still reported, but many don't know to use it. Watch the video in the Slownickel Lounge on the first page. Their %'s are wrong, but you will at least get the idea....

The science is out there, much of it is as old as the hills. Some of the best stuff was from the 30's and the 40's.

slownickel · Apr 9, 2019

Good clone, bad clone

Good clone, bad clone

All starts here.

Where ever you go, bring your knife.

What came first, the open wound or the disease/virus....???

Note carefully on the "bad" clone, that at the very bottom she has almost pinched off. This one would have closed up and then the clone would have grown "normally". However, the genetic expression on that second clone would have been greatly diminished.

Unfortunately the majority of what is out there is not good folks.

Anyone have a nursery license in California?

palmeezy · Apr 13, 2019

slownickel, is the consensus then that the viroid is responsible for these rot issues? clogging of the xylem? i've been battling this off and on for years, able to grow out of it like you say only to have to creep back up extremely quickly at times.

other symptoms i get are white salty buildup on the stems of the internally rotted clones. lower bud sites die off.

also, a tendency for lower branches getting marginal (but enough) light to turn brown and die. i thought this was fungal but it persists, popping up randomly, despite fairly thorough ipm.

another symptom that creeps up from time to time is witch's broom/little leafing. most of my once-prized strains went the way of extreme photosensitivity/lack of proper bud development/foxtails and NO smell, or, witches broom , lots of small buds with little leafs and what i can only describe as classic dud smell. numerous strains all went out with the same basic smell.

i've been convinced i've had a number of issues but the clones selected from several generations of the best have almost always done well. but then i'd forget about it and get lazy; symptoms crept up. by not taking 10 times the number of clones that i should have, and keeping only the best 10% each time, i'd gradually start having lower quality and yields.

palmeezy · Apr 13, 2019

taken with sterile equipment from 3+" growth per day plants with large fan leafs and proper node spacing.

i get a higher rooting % if i take lowers but not necessarily better plant stock.

have tried physan20, bleach, antibiotics, ridomil, copper, broad spectrum and rot-specific beneficials alike.

D3pthCharg3 · Apr 15, 2019

Wow, so much thanks to you all. I have had this issue in the past a few years ago. My suspicions have been confirmed. I have not seen this in my gardens in years though, I did as said, and eventually ended up trashing everything too. Suspected it to came in on NorCal Dosi when that cut first starting making its rounds.

Colloidal silver could be of use. It's a 'cure all' of mine in the world of human health; wiped out viral pink eye in the kids a few years back, flu, etc., other viruses.

Best wishes everyone.

gladysvjubb · Apr 15, 2019

You pays you money, you takes yo chances.

calisun · Apr 15, 2019

slownickel said:
I was in Darkheart a couple weeks of go. First we cut open stumps from old Mom's. All had rot from the bottom of where the initial clone cut was made and was quite present in the end of the stump.

All the branches that I felt were hollow.

When we finally made it to the clone area, we cut open "duds" or discards. All had no callus and full of rot.

When they finally let me cut a "good" clone. All had rot, just less of it. Every nursery I have been to so far in Cali..... all the same.

The virus that they "found" in post meristem culture, was a Hops latent virus, they call it dudding. We have seen plants that whole branches would die off. We outran it by pushing vigor, getting Ca up, taking off the best cut, pushing that cut and then taking a new cut of those most vigorous growth. No more dudding.

The lack of science and understanding in this biz is silly.

Do you have a picture of a branch or stump cut open showing the rot hop latent virus. I'd like to cut open and compare a couple of mine that have some weird variegation going on in the new growth and some overall yellowing. A couple new testers from wonderland. Thanks
Nevermind pics showed up after I logged in lol.

hellfire · Apr 15, 2019

This 'patent pending process' is probably as simple as heat treatment and tissue culturing.

art.spliff · Apr 15, 2019

In my case I think the plants died from neglect on my part. It could've been one of many rookie mistakes I made instead of some sort of virus. I might try taking cuttings too.

"If the media level is above the cube, it may come into contact with the stem. This can cause fungal disease."

I am guilty of planting some with the rooting cube way beneath the soil line thinking adventitious roots would grow but after some recent trials I don't think that works well with cannabis.

I recommend reading this article: Cannabis Clone Care
https://darkheartnursery.com/news/cannabis-clone-care/

art.spliff · Apr 15, 2019

Mate Dave has culture flask kits specifically designed for the cannabis industry https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=359674&page=2

beta · Apr 23, 2019

palmeezy said:
slownickel, is the consensus then that the viroid is responsible for these rot issues? clogging of the xylem? i've been battling this off and on for years, able to grow out of it like you say only to have to creep back up extremely quickly at times.

other symptoms i get are white salty buildup on the stems of the internally rotted clones. lower bud sites die off.

also, a tendency for lower branches getting marginal (but enough) light to turn brown and die. i thought this was fungal but it persists, popping up randomly, despite fairly thorough ipm.

another symptom that creeps up from time to time is witch's broom/little leafing. most of my once-prized strains went the way of extreme photosensitivity/lack of proper bud development/foxtails and NO smell, or, witches broom , lots of small buds with little leafs and what i can only describe as classic dud smell. numerous strains all went out with the same basic smell.

i've been convinced i've had a number of issues but the clones selected from several generations of the best have almost always done well. but then i'd forget about it and get lazy; symptoms crept up. by not taking 10 times the number of clones that i should have, and keeping only the best 10% each time, i'd gradually start having lower quality and yields.

I see *exactly* what you're describing, particularly the white crusty buildup on the base of very affected plants. I thought I was the only one! I used to think it was Ca from my tap water but I started using aminos which prevent that and it persisted. Always very evident on the most affected clones and plants.

I'd also like to echo slownickel's suggestion to pump up Ca, the best run I had in a long time had top dressed gypsum every week of their life. I'm pretty sure chitosan helps as well.

Cannabis virus?

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