Calling all BHO Gurus.... Question Regarding Ingestion

Hey All

I have a question regarding heat treatment of cannabis before extraction and making pills from the result.

Being a medical user, one of my goals is to implement an ingestion regimen as soon as possible. The plan is to make pills as the mainstay and use a bonghit here or there when necessary.

I've been reading a lot of excellent information on BHO extraction and have done it once myself so I understand the basic concepts. I still have a few questions and some time before I'll have anything to extract so I'm taking the opportunity to get things straight first.

To all those who make BHO on a regular basis I pose this question:

Have You / Would you be willing to

1. Heat treat your cannabis before extraction
(preheat oven to 250F exactly and turn off. Insert large pan with a half inch layer of cannabis. Remove in 5 minutes or when you visibly see smoke, (use well lit oven) whichever comes first.)

2. Make your extraction into a teflon bag
3. Purge
4. Freeze and Crush
5. Fill medicine capsules 1/3 full to full and Keep in freezer (the little gel kind)
6. Test for potency and dosage requirements
7. Post results

Obviously this bypasses the pure joy of smoking BHO, but since it's for medical use I consider it the purest form of dosage.

Anyone who has the time, material and curiosity, if you haven't done this already, I'd be much obliged to hear of your results.

The other question is in regards to mixing strains. I know for sure that I can mix two strains together before the extraction process but I was wondering if anyone had any experience or ideas on how to handle the BHO itself as strain specific. My intention is to mix different amounts together to determine the optimum ratio of each.

I figure by keeping them separate that I can change the mix as potency changes along the line. Does anyone have any tips on storing BHO for a long time in a crushed powder state? (I'm thinking just keeping it frozen but was hoping a cold fridge would do?)

Thanks in advance for any information on this, I'm beholden to you all for continuing to share the information and experience you've all gained with us. I hope to contribute back when this project of mine is complete

Peace!

Does this need to be moved to the medical section?

I make caps from oil and don't do the oven trick because...........I put my oil in a small jar, then add a few tablespoons of olive oil, seal jar and place in boiling water. Turn to a simmer after it starts to boil and leave there for 20-30 min. Take it out, let it cool then start mixing my corn starch with the oil mix to form a dry powder for caps. This is using a cannabrex system btw. All I know is you can trip balls off my caps LOL.

You don't want to put straight oil powder in those caps, too strong, way too strong. Look up cannabrex and look at the step by step they give so you can get an idea.

http://www.cannabrex.com/guide.htm

Chiefsmokingbud said:

I make caps from oil and don't do the oven trick because...........I put my oil in a small jar, then add a few tablespoons of olive oil, seal jar and place in boiling water. Turn to a simmer after it starts to boil and leave there for 20-30 min. Take it out, let it cool then start mixing my corn starch with the oil mix to form a dry powder for caps. This is using a cannabrex system btw. All I know is you can trip balls off my caps LOL.

You don't want to put straight oil powder in those caps, too strong, way too strong. Look up cannabrex and look at the step by step they give so you can get an idea.

http://www.cannabrex.com/guide.htm

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Sweeeeeeeeeet! Thanks OOOOdles



(I've noticed myself using the smiley a lot more since I started a regular diet of Princess Diesel. Wheeeeeeeee!)

Chiefsmokingbud said:

..I put my oil in a small jar, then add a few tablespoons of olive oil, seal jar and place in boiling water. ......snip....... let it cool then start mixing my corn starch with the oil mix to form a dry powder for caps.

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Ok.... Took a look at the Cannabrex website (Thanks). Very good information.

What's your experience with their oil vs. Olive oil?

I'll have to do something other than cornstarch as corn isn't good for me personally Maybe arrowroot powder with some ginkoba and ginseng. Custom blend.

You've given me a good idea and that's to start now on making my daily supplement pills first. Can always add the oil later. (Will also allow me to work with a known baseline before I add the oil)

Thanks again.

Funny I did some research and when it came time to refill my cannabrex kit I read I could substitute with olive oil and corn starch instead of buying a refill kit. I've been making caps with those substitutes for 2 years with great results. You can also use coconut oil. As far as the powder it really needs to be an excipient (sp) powder because what that is like a binder/filler that makes the oil a powder. I also have the 3x powder from them and this is the ingredients: maize starch (you could use that instead of the corn),Zingiber officinallis and black pepper fruit extract. So that may give you some ideas too.

the only concerns with ingestion are thus:

1) solubility. it must be dissolved in oil or fat. THC is not water soluble, so simply eating BHO will not effectively or consistently transfer the THC through the digestive tract, nor will it effectively or consistently be absorbed into the blood stream in the intestines.

it needs to be dissolved in olive oil or fat of some kind. Apparently cannabrex or whatever has you use some kind of cellulose or sugar to solidify this.

I would not recommend this. I have a feeling that this solidification will actually detrimentally affect the effort you made to create an oil solution of THC. you will basically end up with a chunk of oily solid, with little droplets of concentrated BHO dispersed throughout. you want a straight up solution, where the molecules are DISSOLVED, and not just suspended or dispersed.

I would follow EXACTLY what is done for marinol:

marinol is THC dissolved in (what the google search results claim is) sesame oil. they do NOT use any form of sugar or cellulose as a binder or solid support. marinol is a gel cap.


2) THCA conversion

Despite what people claim, drying and curing does not decarboxylate THCA.

it would take years to achieve that at room temerature. HEAT decarboxylates THC.

when you smoke/vaporize/cook the THCA (bud, hash, oil, budder, etc) you are decarboxylating it.


you mentioned cooking the bud prior to extraction. I would not recommend this because you will end up extracting burned compounds that might be carcinogenic.

instead, just make BHO, catching it a pyrex dish.

then purge it on steam (which is hotter than boiling water), or in a 130 or 150 C oven for about 30 minutes.

that is plenty of time and will, most likely, completely decarboxylate all (99%) of the THCA.


I cant guarantee that, but it is better than eating BHO that has ONLY been purged with boiling water (100 C).


realistically, you will get your best results by cooking BHO dissolved in oil in some kind of food like brownies.

you will benefit from the cooking (which will decarboxylate it) and you wont have to deal with putting oil into commercially available empty capsules, or just spooning out straight up oil and eating it that way.

^^^Did you just recommend purging BHO in an OVEN?!


No, NONONONONNO! Please no one try that. Not to mention the fact that a large fireball will be shooting out of your oven before you have a chance to set the dish down...very hot (just simmering) water purge is plenty hot enough to get everything you don't want out.

Hydro-Soil, if you have any questions about perfecting the extraction process, I can probably help you out. Will let other give advice on cooking/tincturing the BHO. Know I'll be interested to here the results..would love to be able to swallow a couple caps and have it feel like super potent edible.

The THC in marinol is synthetic. As far as just using sesame oil, veg oil, olive oil or whatever, the gel caps we have access to disolve from those types of oil and have to remain frozen until you use it not to mention they have a tendency to leak. Marinol caps are different...."gel caps". That's why cannabrex uses an excipient powder not to mention putting a liquid in a cap is a pita.

Thanks all

I'm a safety kinda guy so there're no worries on the extraction end.


1) Is there any evidence that freezing BHO causes any type of damage to the cannabinoids and/or medicinal?

2) How long can I store that powder in the fridge before making capsules?

3) How long can I keep a capsule in a pill container in my pocket? (if I keep myself from eating it.)

You guys have no idea how excited I am about this. The possibility of being able to mix strains in a ratio that works out excellent for my issues and not have to smoke is just amazing to me.

Natural goodness


Now..... if I can just get my hands on some BHO of a pure CBD plant. I can REALLY do some testing. Medicating without getting high. Oh man I love it
(sorry but after 25 years of self medicating I'm tired of the high all day LOL)
I'd like to become a recreational user again.

Ok I'm babbling

Don't have any science to back it up, but I highly doubt that freezing will cause ANY degredation of THC/cannabinoids. Enough people freeze their starting material (bubble) etc. that I don't think it's anything to worry about. The only time I've frozen my BHO is to get powder...wrapped in thick parchment paper then smashed.

BHO itself has a fairly infinite shelf life..dunno about after mixing it to get your powder though. Sure Chief can chime in..

I freeze my unused oil and other extracts and it will keep indefinantly. hydro I will warn you eating it is a whole new ball game and you will have to start out small and find your correct dose. You can overdo it and it's not fun. Trust me I've done it LOL. Pill in your pocket won't be a problem unless you plan on leaving it there at a month at a time. Anyway don't forget to let us know how it goes

gordonliu said:

marinol is THC dissolved in (what the google search results claim is) sesame oil.

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So if I used Flaxseed, Olive and a select other few oils that are still "nice" after being cooked at 100F+, I should get a nice ingestable product?

gordonliu said:

I cant guarantee that, but it is better than eating BHO that has ONLY been purged with boiling water (100 C).

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I'm pretty handy with a pressure cooker, would a low pressure run and a thorough mix while still hot, work?

gordonliu said:

you wont have to deal with putting oil into commercially available empty capsules, or just spooning out straight up oil and eating it that way.

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I really don't mind making capsules for now. My only issue is substituting for the corn starch (I don't do that stuff well). I was thinking of using Arrowroot powder along with ginseng, ginko biloba and possibly a few others in the mix. Time will tell

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it

Hydro-Soil said:

So if I used Flaxseed, Olive and a select other few oils that are still "nice" after being cooked at 100F+, I should get a nice ingestable product?


I'm pretty handy with a pressure cooker, would a low pressure run and a thorough mix while still hot, work?




I really don't mind making capsules for now. My only issue is substituting for the corn starch (I don't do that stuff well). I was thinking of using Arrowroot powder along with ginseng, ginko biloba and possibly a few others in the mix. Time will tell

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it

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I think I have a perfect substitute for you, ever heard of Xanthan Gum? It's a food additive that is commonly used as a gluten-free starch replacement. It's properties allow you to add a relatively small ammount of Xanthan Gum to thicken up a substance. Should be a healthy alternative.

EDIT: from Wiki
Since xanthan gum is produced by a bacterium that is fed corn to grow, some people allergic to corn will also react to it. Yellow Phrygian Husk is a common source of bacterium in which xanthan gum is created.[3] However, some xanthan gum is non corn-derived.

Coconut oil has a longer shelf live than olive oil.
Maize Starch is corn starch.
In the cannabrex recipe (For hash) you only have about .2 grams of corn starch per pill.

The cannbrex system includes 'pharmaceutical' grade corn starch.
The 3x is basiclly black pepper extract and ginger - although there is more to it than just that.

The best part of the cannbrex system is the pill press. I can do 24 pills in under 10 min...it takes longer to load the empty pill caps into the press than to fill the caps.

Total time from start to finish for 24 pills is about 1hr. Then add 10 min for every extra batch.
I have used ISO, drysift and bubble.

JRace said:

Coconut oil has a longer shelf live than olive oil.
Maize Starch is corn starch.
In the cannabrex recipe (For hash) you only have about .2 grams of corn starch per pill.

The cannbrex system includes 'pharmaceutical' grade corn starch.
The 3x is basiclly black pepper extract and ginger - although there is more to it than just that.

The best part of the cannbrex system is the pill press. I can do 24 pills in under 10 min...it takes longer to load the empty pill caps into the press than to fill the caps.

Total time from start to finish for 24 pills is about 1hr. Then add 10 min for every extra batch.
I have used ISO, drysift and bubble.

Click to expand...

Awesome

That system is starting to look better and better.

I shouldn't have coconut, so I personally won't be using it, but it's a good idea. Thanks.

I'll be using Flaxseed and Olive oil and keeping it in the fridge or freezer after prepping.

No can do on the corn starch either. .2g might not seem like much to you but I get too much from the food I eat as it is. Possibly the non-corn based xanthan gum or arrowroot powder.

I'm also looking forward to throwing in some lecithin, VitiminC, Vbcomplex, ginko biloba and other herbs. I'd kinda like to make up a pill with all that and do test runs without the BHO added first.

This is looking better and better