RubeGoldberg's 2 room showdown! 6x750DE VS 4x315LEC & 4x600HPS

DunHav`nFun said:

Although I`ve heard nothing but good things about the 315`s , watts per sq ft is watts per sq ft , regardless...and....

Using the old standard of 50 watts per sq ft being optimum for photosynthesis indoors , you`re already less than optimal with room 1 and only 4500 watts instead of 6000 + in a 125+/- sq ft room , not to mention the 3660 watts in room 2.......that said....

6-1KW`s would be top shelf coverage if environment can be maintained , but I`m also anxious to see the outcome with the 6-750`s due to the new DE fixtures to see if they do better than conventional HPS.....anyways.....Awesome work Bro , and yeah I agree with you on changing out room 2 with the same 6 -750 setup regardless of being 3 weeks in.....can only help....

Especially since you can dim the fixtures to get em through any lumen shock that may occur initially from upping the wattage , so good luck and here`s hoping for heavy harveys from both rooms.....

Peace.....DHF.......

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Wattage a square foot sorta gets thrown out with DE HPS and the 315cmh, since they're both pushing the boundaries of efficiency.


The ideal footprint of the 750W DE's is about 3.75x4.24 feet, we've got basically lighting for a 12.75ft x 7.5ft canopy over a 12 ft x7ft canopy


For 600hps , the euro standard is 1x1m but the length of the bulb technically can be a more rectangular part of the canopy. So each 600w is essentially lighting 3x3.25 feet. The 315w have a canopy of 3x3 feet, so they mix well with the 600s in that room.


so overall the canopy isn't 100% maximized, but I'm comfortable with it. considering my overall costs are very low.
Honestly I should get a par meter and really see whats happening though.

RubeGoldberg said:

Honestly I should get a par meter and really see whats happening though.

Click to expand...

I support this!

Excellent thread man.

Very nice grow mate, keep up the good work...

Week 4 update!

Ignore the sloppyness of room 2's venting. Temps are holding and I've been too busy to hang and vent the carbon can properly...

Size seems okay, it is a 10 week strain, so I'm okay with the current week 4 size.



Room 1




Room 2

manually trellising both canopies with twine at the moment. hope to get these canopies locked down for the upcoming weight gain

Got a macro lens from Amazon today for my sony mirrorless, been getting into photography lately as a hobby but haven't really had much interest in photographing the grow room. I'll try to do my updates moving forward using a real camera instead of my iphone though, hopefully practice will help.

Week 5 update! (10 week strain)

Getting some purple, most likely due to temps reaching low 60s at night, some premature yellowing, which im told is normal for this cutting, so I'm going to try throttling the nutrients at full strength and see how it goes.

Super your setup I hesitate to buy Gavita 1000 or 750 does it not heat up too 6X750?

How many cubic meters does your extractor? And intractor?


On your run before in 8X600 you get how many lbs?

scarafino said:

Super your setup I hesitate to buy Gavita 1000 or 750 does it not heat up too 6X750?

How many cubic meters does your extractor? And intractor?


On your run before in 8X600 you get how many lbs?

Click to expand...

last GOOD run on the room was about 8.5 lbs, summer's heat though on the last run sucked. Gram per watt is the goal eventually, but im not running Co2 and really not putting the love and effort into my grow that I could be.

the light im running is these guys, and then we swapped the shade inserts out for a low ceiling version. They really dont heat up bad at all, same as 8x600w really
https://www.iluminarlighting.com/iluminar-600-750w-double-ended-fixt


Their newer fixtures come with a bulb manufactured under license from phillips, so they perform well (apparently the original bulbs weren't great)

I personally dont like supporting gavita's parent company, so i'd never buy their fixtures, but its important to get the phillips technology. And credit is due to gavita for bringing that tech to the cannabis world even though i won't buy their shit lol

As for intake/outtake. I should check CFM, I can tell you each room has a 10 inch outtake, and 6 inch intake running full blast.
Intake turns off when lights turn off, outtake stays on 24/7

Hello and thank you ,
I love your way of cultivating
In Europe I have noticed that I prefer in pot of 3. gallon maximum
what is your exact cultivation area?
you are in an apartment or house?
I'd like to do two 6x750 pieces like you but in apartment I do not really know how to manage extraction for discretion
I saw that you had to work in Europe you must have tips for discreet extraction in apartment
do you have AC?

scarafino said:

Hello and thank you ,
I love your way of cultivating
In Europe I have noticed that I prefer in pot of 3. gallon maximum
what is your exact cultivation area?
you are in an apartment or house?
I'd like to do two 6x750 pieces like you but in apartment I do not really know how to manage extraction for discretion
I saw that you had to work in Europe you must have tips for discreet extraction in apartment
do you have AC?

Click to expand...

thanks man!

in relation to your questions.

1. Each room is 10x12 feet, with a custom built angled table for runoff. the first thread details the construction a bit better.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=336905

The grow area itself is about 7.5x12 feet, i could fill the entire rooms, but i've spent too much time in my life in big grows dodging plants, i like the walk-ways haha.

2. I prefer 3 gallon pots which are about 11 gallons european size.
The closest growing medium you will find in europe to what I use is Plagron Light Mix or Biobizz Light mix.

3. This is a house. I vent into the back of the property away from prying eyes. This is a legal license, so police won't touch it, any discretion is mostly for the neighbor's sake. I have a ton of cameras, security doors and there is a security service that almost always has a patrol car about 1-2 minutes away from the house if the alarm goes off.

4. As far as extraction in a European apartment. I actually used to have about 8 apartments along a metro line. They were tall concrete prefab panel apartments. I would run 6 or 8 x 600w HPS in each apartment. I built the grows very modular so that i could tear them down and remove them in about 2-3 hours. I told all of the apartment owners that I was a traveling expat, and even though they had the right to 24 hour entry, it would be great if they could give me a heads up so I would be in town when they want to access.

It worked out that I would maybe have to tear a grow down every 4-5 months due to owners wanting entry, but with multiple grows running it was built into the business model.

For extraction I ran carbon filter exhaust out of a window, I would make panels using plywood I painted white, and heat register grills. So the window panel just looked like somebody's A/C unit. Which didn't draw suspicion 10 floors up. For intake I usually just opened windows in the rest of the apartment a little bit and did passive.




5. Do I run AC? On some places I'm partnered with yes. On this place? nope. Realistically each room would require a mini-split costing around 2-3 thousand dollars, plus a dehumidifier and a Co2 burner and controller. Realistically the investment would be 5000 dollars per room. And considering Canada expects to fully legalize in july 2018, the bottom will likely fall out of the growing market as we know it. So I don't want to make giant investments when growing might be over in about 3-4 more runs.

scarafino said:

Hello and thank you ,
I love your way of cultivating
In Europe I have noticed that I prefer in pot of 3. gallon maximum
what is your exact cultivation area?
you are in an apartment or house?
I'd like to do two 6x750 pieces like you but in apartment I do not really know how to manage extraction for discretion
I saw that you had to work in Europe you must have tips for discreet extraction in apartment
do you have AC?

Click to expand...

Also as far as the 750's, you can make them work with low ceilings. I only have basically 6 feet if you subtract the hieght of the tables.

you just need the low ceiling inserts.. which are about 30 dollars each.

I like your setup, thanks for sharing. So im in the same boat with low ceiling and want to experiment with new lighting technology to me. Ive got some 315s to test in a 6x6. Also I was going to test some 630's in a 8'x8'. But the 630's I wanted are currently on shipping delay. So I was looking into the 600/750's. Whats your distance from bulb to canopy, and are you seeing any light or heat stress? Either im gonna test the 600/750s or just throw some 600hps se's in adjustawings in there till I get my 630's in. Im just not sure how much canopy depth ill have with 7' ceilings, the fixture, the pot, and table. Im guessing 2' max, which might be enough to be efficient with 600de's?

Miraculous Meds said:

I like your setup, thanks for sharing. So im in the same boat with low ceiling and want to experiment with new lighting technology to me. Ive got some 315s to test in a 6x6. Also I was going to test some 630's in a 8'x8'. But the 630's I wanted are currently on shipping delay. So I was looking into the 600/750's. Whats your distance from bulb to canopy, and are you seeing any light or heat stress? Either im gonna test the 600/750s or just throw some 600hps se's in adjustawings in there till I get my 630's in. Im just not sure how much canopy depth ill have with 7' ceilings, the fixture, the pot, and table. Im guessing 2' max, which might be enough to be efficient with 600de's?

Click to expand...

We're rocking about 20 inches of distance from the bulbs.
no heat stress. the fixtures will max out at 825w I think? but im keeping them at 750



however I just discovered tonight that my runoff has been piss poor (pH on the outtake was coming out at 5.2) so I did a big flush with Sensizym (enzymes) and Ancient Earth (humic and fulvic which are natural chelators)

The double ended room was feeling the lockout WAY more than the single ended room, which means they're metabolizing nutrients faster.

That being said, in the single ended room, the buds under 315w CMH are pretty much as fat as the 600HPS single ended.

1426/5000




Hi and thank you for your answer ,

What is the advantage of the table rather than the saucer that is put under the pot?

For the watering you do how to rock bottom foot, you have a pole?
It looks hard to access the bottom plant


Exact I work in 11 liter which equals 3 gallon I think

Do you use mineral or organic fertilizers?

I plan to make his apartment also with 6x750 or 8X or or 5 X1000W gavita, honestly I hesitate between 750 gavita and 1000, which are the most effective for the yield you think?

what is it prefab apartment? prefab?

Normally if you signed a lease the owner could not get in ... Or can you rent it by hand

Modular culture ie you cultivate in grow tent? Can you give me details of your modular culture?

Very interesting for the AC with the plywood panel,

But you put it on the window outside with the sheath of the extractor that went on? Or did you put the extractor in the plywood box? on the window? You have a photo ?

You were on the last floor? the breath of air did not make too much noise?

If not, how much growth do you expect for the 3 gallon pots from the beginning to the end of vegation?


Im sorry FOR ALL ITS QUESTIONS LOL

but it's my first big crop so I want to do things well

thanks for help me lol

scarafino said:

1426/5000




Hi and thank you for your answer ,

What is the advantage of the table rather than the saucer that is put under the pot?

For the watering you do how to rock bottom foot, you have a pole?
It looks hard to access the bottom plant


Exact I work in 11 liter which equals 3 gallon I think

Do you use mineral or organic fertilizers?

I plan to make his apartment also with 6x750 or 8X or or 5 X1000W gavita, honestly I hesitate between 750 gavita and 1000, which are the most effective for the yield you think?

what is it prefab apartment? prefab?

Normally if you signed a lease the owner could not get in ... Or can you rent it by hand

Modular culture ie you cultivate in grow tent? Can you give me details of your modular culture?

Very interesting for the AC with the plywood panel,

But you put it on the window outside with the sheath of the extractor that went on? Or did you put the extractor in the plywood box? on the window? You have a photo ?

You were on the last floor? the breath of air did not make too much noise?

If not, how much growth do you expect for the 3 gallon pots from the beginning to the end of vegation?


Im sorry FOR ALL ITS QUESTIONS LOL

but it's my first big crop so I want to do things well

thanks for help me lol

Click to expand...

- I use drainage tables because I hate saucers, they require manually draining. Runoff in a medium like this is very important, otherwise excess salts built up and cause lockouts. If you go to the infirmary section of this website, like half of the guys matching their leaves up to deficiency charts like dickheads are just experiencing problems due to their shitty propagation.


- For watering I use a wand on a pump. I will probably switch to drip lines and coco coir though soon.


- In an apartment I wouldn't fuck with 1000w Double Ended lights unless you have TALL ceilings. Also I wouldn't give money to Gavita due to the fact their parent company is looking at killing the growing industry.

- I use a hybrid blend of organic/mineral, but mostly mineral. I use the Advanced Nutrients Sensi Line.


-When I wrote prefab apartments, i meant panel style that a lot of European cities built for public housing. 2x2 lumber and panda film stapled to build my rooms. I used tents sometimes but they are kind of expensive and less customization compared to something you build yourself.

- For noise I just used a fan silencer. Exhaust was ducted out of the window, i used duct fittings like this to mate the ducting with the window adapters I made. http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server600/1r2fayi/product_images/uploaded_images/ph3.jpg

_ Ah OK me I use saucers, but I do not empty them, the plant drink the water that remains in the saucer from below in the saucer very quickly when I water ....
I do not know if it is okay you leave how many% of drain when you water? How much do you put water about?

What's going on with Gavita? The lamps are very good reputation however, the performance is higher with a gavita than a Hps in general ...

For the 1000w the ceiling I would use are ceiling of 8 feet, but I'm afraid that is not enough ....

How much do you meta 2X2 4X600? 6X600?


I think I will head to Gavita 750DE, I do not understand why you criticize them, you use his lamps yet .... Many are happy!

I'd like to harvest 9 lbs every 3 months, it's playable with 6X750 of you think? (I don't have a great level, 7 culture has my assets)

scarafino said:

_ Ah OK me I use saucers, but I do not empty them, the plant drink the water that remains in the saucer from below in the saucer very quickly when I water ....
I do not know if it is okay you leave how many% of drain when you water? How much do you put water about?

What's going on with Gavita? The lamps are very good reputation however, the performance is higher with a gavita than a Hps in general ...

For the 1000w the ceiling I would use are ceiling of 8 feet, but I'm afraid that is not enough ....

How much do you meta 2X2 4X600? 6X600?


I think I will head to Gavita 750DE, I do not understand why you criticize them, you use his lamps yet .... Many are happy!

I'd like to harvest 9 lbs every 3 months, it's playable with 6X750 of you think? (I don't have a great level, 7 culture has my assets)

Click to expand...

Ah Thanks for the link it's very interesting, when you were in the apartment to extract, there were neighbors close to lextraction? He won't hear?

That's my biggest concern I want to be discret....et I'm talking about what you had before when you had an apartment, I didn't understand.

In fact you were a Fake AC on the wall of the building next to the window? With a lextracteur sheath connected to the fake AC?

scarafino said:

Ah Thanks for the link it's very interesting, when you were in the apartment to extract, there were neighbors close to lextraction? He won't hear?

That's my biggest concern I want to be discret....et I'm talking about what you had before when you had an apartment, I didn't understand.

In fact you were a Fake AC on the wall of the building next to the window? With a lextracteur sheath connected to the fake AC?

Click to expand...

basically i built a window insert to look like the vent from portable AC with a hose.

48 DAYS...21 days to go..