Fish Hydrolysate (not fish emulsion)

Madrus Rose · Jan 13, 2011

Thanks spur, for the info you pm'd on the humics & fulvics ....
ya that 1rst PM was empty ...understand you're a busy bee .
lol

cheers

mrose

GeorgeSmiley · Jan 13, 2011

Hey Cheeze, it's Wilbur Ellis that our fish meal and fish bonemeal is.

Haven't tried the Organic Gem yet, the eco nutrients bone product seems interesting.... I haven't seen that before.

Smiley

guest2012y · Jan 13, 2011

GeorgeSmiley said:
Hey Cheeze, it's Wilbur Ellis that our fish meal and fish bonemeal is.

Haven't tried the Organic Gem yet, the eco nutrients bone product seems interesting.... I haven't seen that before.

Smiley

Right on Smiley....Wilbur Ellis rings a bell. Have you seen any Organic Gem stuff around anywhere?

Clackamas Coot · Jan 13, 2011

spurr said:
Two question for you guys:

1. Have you tried Organic Gem? If so, can you compare/contrast both products? Both products seem high quality, more so than Neptune's Harvest (even though I have not had any problems from Neptune's).

2. Have you tried EcoNutrints fish bone soil amendment? I just noticed it, and it looks interesting, I like how they are using/selling all parts of their fish. I am not worried about P or Ca levels in media, but that product did catch my eye, it's the first of its kind I have ever seen sold retail (besides fish bone meal).

Spurr

Question 1: Up until about 18 months back, EarthFort (associated with Dr. Elaine's SFI group in Corvallis) carried the Organic Gem product specifically. They now carry a product from a small producer in Northwest Washington and they distribute his product exclusively.

From what I understand, Organic Gem is manufactured by a licensed FDA lab that produces human food supplements - some of which are from fish (Omega oils, et al.) meaning that this product is produced under strict guidelines compared to the big processors in Anacortes, Washington north of Seattle.

They have a horrible distribution system - the closet distributor according to their web site is in Phoenix, Arizona that seldom answers their phone and a small retailer in Northern California.

Question 2: When Eco-Nurtients first arrived in Portland a little over a year ago I contacted them and ordered a couple of lbs. of their fish bone amendment. Fish bones (hydrolysate) are a by-product of the fermentation process, i.e. the bones float to the top of the slurry and are skimmed off. In the USA these bones end up in livestock and pet foods (calcium and trace minerals).

Almost all of the fish bone meal (hydrolysate) is sourced out of Canada and is distributed by Wilbur-Ellis.

The main difference between good ol' Canadian fish bone meal vs. Eco-Nurtients's fish bone soil amendment is that the Canadian product has been ground to a standard size and doesn't cut the f*ck out of your hands when you handle it. The Eco-Nurtients' product is unfinished fish bone meal and you'll want to wear leather gloves when you handle it.

And it's about 2x the price as the standard product.

Meh - ain't a big deal.

CC

Clackamas Coot · Jan 13, 2011

Microbeman said:
Here is a link to Great Pacific Bioproducts who make very fine quality liquid fish fertilizer (hydrolysate). Their product is available in British Columbia, Canada but bulk purchases in the Western USA are possible. I have tested their product and it grows the most enormous fungal hyphae from our vermicompost that I have ever seen. > http://www.greatpacificbioproducts.com

MM

I found an orchardist in the Yakima, Washington area that sells this fish hydrolysate @ $48.00 for 5 gallons (18.75 liters). Shipping kills the 'good deal' but I can get it moved to Portland for free once the weather breaks in the Columbia River Gorge.

I'm going to buy 10 gallons and re-sell it to other medical growers to cover my out of pocket expenses.

Is their a shelf-life on these hydrolysate products that you're aware of?

CC

Frankinsensi · Jan 15, 2011

Peaceful Valley hydrolysate ~ $10.00 a gallon.

Microbeman · Jan 15, 2011

Coot, most liquid hydrolysate has 3% phosphoric acid added which acts as a stabalizer or preservative (for lack of a better descrption). To my knowledge, unopened there is a very long shelf life without a lot of heat, that is.

Bueno Time · Jan 20, 2011

I use the Neptunes Harvest Trio. The seaweed fert with alaska 5-1-1 for veg and 2-3-1 and 2-4-1 for flowering. Seems other people are getting more quantity for the money other places though.

big_daddy · Jan 20, 2011

Hi,

This question is more directed at MM, CTGuy, CC or Spurr, but all with experience please share. I'm curious as to your thoughts on the various species of seaweed used and if one is better than another.

Also, whether you've tested the different species in your labs or in your grows.

Usually ascophyllum nodosum (Norwegian Sea Kelp) is the most sought after seaweed product for gardening purposes, but the Eco Nutrients product for instance uses Nereocystis Luetkeana or "Bull Kelp".

Although all kelp is not the same, having some type of kelp IMO is far better than no kelp at all.

Thanks,

b_d

CT Guy · Jan 20, 2011

Well the most widely researched is the N. Atlantic Sea Kelp (ascophyllum nodosum). A majority of my knowledge on the subject comes from TL Senn's book "Seaweed and Plant Growth," which you can get through ACRES or Amazon.com for 10-15 bucks.

Clackamas Coot · Jan 20, 2011

big_daddy said:
Hi,

This question is more directed at MM, CTGuy, CC or Spurr, but all with experience please share. I'm curious as to your thoughts on the various species of seaweed used and if one is better than another.

Also, whether you've tested the different species in your labs or in your grows.

Usually ascophyllum nodosum (Norwegian Sea Kelp) is the most sought after seaweed product for gardening purposes, but the Eco Nutrients product for instance uses Nereocystis Luetkeana or "Bull Kelp".

Although all kelp is not the same, having some type of kelp IMO is far better than no kelp at all.

Thanks,

b_d

big_daddy

After re-reading (re-viewing) the tome by Dr. T.L. Senn I can offer this - it's the 'color' of the kelp that is most important. In his 55-years of study it was the final analysis of Dr. Senn that it's the color of the source of the kelp that is most important.

According to his studies, there are 3 major sources of kelp - brown, green and red. The ''brown kelp" grows closest to the surface and it is his opinion that this results in a kelp meal product that has the highest levels of 'nutrients' available.

Below the grow zone of the 'brown kelp' lies the 'green kelp' varieties which confuses me. Since it's 'green' it would seem that this should be the strain closes to the 'light source' (i.e. the sun) but that's not the case.

Then there is a 3rd type of kelp/algae - red kelp. This is an interesting type in that it does not necessarily grow in water as it's often found growing on pier pilings, tree trunks, et al. and often far away from the sea shore.

According to Dr. Senn's studies there ARE slight differences in the nutrient values of brown, green and red kelp. Differences that are extremely minor and probably not worthy of mention but they are there.

HTH

CC

forty · Jan 21, 2011

how much fish hydrosylate would you add per gallon to a 10 gal tea recipe?

how much per gal would you add to a nute regimen?

thanks fellas

Muleskinner · Jan 23, 2011

I've recently started using Neptune's Harvest 2-3-1 Fish + seaweed. So far it seems great! Seems nearly impossible to burn the plants - this stuff seems more user-friendly than Earth Juice ferts. There's no low pH shock that comes with EJ products either.

I had been feeding about 1/2 TBLSP of neptune's per gallon every watering, but recently as the plants entered flowering they seemed a little yellow so I watered with 2 TBLSP per gallon and the plants loved it! I won't give them that much every time but it's nice to be able to crank it up.

With Earth Juice if you use too much you'll get an immediate "eagle claw" reaction from the plants - leaf tips curling down. No sign of it with Neptune's Harvest.

I think you do need some more nitrogen for cannabis with the 2-3-1 rating of Neptune's. I am addressing that by adding a low dose of Espoma Plant tone to the soil (5-3-3) and also by using a worm casting tea every once in a while (worm castings are 1-0-0).

heady blunts · Jan 23, 2011

Muleskinner said:
(worm castings are 1-0-0).

heady blunts · Jan 23, 2011

so i got my fish emulsion way back before i knew my microbes from my fungi. it's a pretty huge bottle, i'm still working through it.

my question is: if MM's recipe guidelines for tea were based on hydrolysate, do i need to alter the amount of emulsion i use to make up for its lower quality?

pourya7352 · Aug 3, 2013

Dear Friends
I am New member in this site . and I was searching about some Information about Fish HP
one of my problem is :what is the fish oil density?! Did you know That? you know after hydrolysis you have Fish hydrolysate protein with water and Fish oil and you have to Separating Fish oil . I have to know about fish oil density ... Thanks

pourya7352 · Aug 3, 2013

You maybe suggesting about Separating Fish oil from water and protein I will appreciation If you were answer my Question

Carbon.Chains · Aug 4, 2013

Clackamas Coot said:
After re-reading (re-viewing) the tome by Dr. T.L. Senn I can offer this - it's the 'color' of the kelp that is most important. In his 55-years of study it was the final analysis of Dr. Senn that it's the color of the source of the kelp that is most important.

According to his studies, there are 3 major sources of kelp - brown, green and red. The ''brown kelp" grows closest to the surface and it is his opinion that this results in a kelp meal product that has the highest levels of 'nutrients' available.

Below the grow zone of the 'brown kelp' lies the 'green kelp' varieties which confuses me. Since it's 'green' it would seem that this should be the strain closes to the 'light source' (i.e. the sun) but that's not the case.

Then there is a 3rd type of kelp/algae - red kelp. This is an interesting type in that it does not necessarily grow in water as it's often found growing on pier pilings, tree trunks, et al. and often far away from the sea shore.

According to Dr. Senn's studies there ARE slight differences in the nutrient values of brown, green and red kelp. Differences that are extremely minor and probably not worthy of mention but they are there.

HTH

CC

Hi,

This is of great interest to me, thanks for that post! I was trying to figure out if it was best to buy a kelp meal for the usual specie, Ascophyllum Nodosum, or if locally harvested seaweed was fine.
I remember reading too that brown seaweed has the highest nutrient values.
I think I ll harvest a mix of all the different species I can find, as according to you, the differences are minor.
(Still need to buy a damn coffee grinder to grind everything properly...)
Anyway, I wanted to add that I have seen plenty of green seaweed along a beach close to where I live, and a lot of brown deeper in the sea.
These observations seem to contradict Dr. Senn's studies apparently. Or maybe the species I've seen are exceptions.
Next time I go to the beach I'll look closer.
Sorry this isn't really related to fish hydrolysates...
To contribute to the thread, I'll add that I'm going to try a fish hydrolysate with different sugar sources, as molasses haven't been easy to source in Europe, except in bulk. Unrefined sugar, agave syrup, and rice water, if anyone's interested.

LowFalutin · Sep 14, 2013

Almost seems impossible to burn the plants with neptune's harvest fish and kelp.
I'll add some PK guanos to the fishKelp base mix, let it sit, and use that for my flowering base mix (@ 1 tbsp/gal).

I amend the soil with neptune's harvest crab shell for cal, mg, and chitin.
Helps keep the pests away too.

I try to keep things as inexpensive (buy the more cost-effective 1 gal. size fishKelp) and easy as possible.

cheers

analogcricket · Apr 9, 2014

will this attract bears?

Fish Hydrolysate (not fish emulsion)

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