LED feed demands

Shmavis · Oct 9, 2019

ButterflyEffect said:
Same here. I thought it was, well I didn't have a clue!

My entire veg room is LED and I've been constantly battling Mag def issues and low seedling survival rates.

I'm running Jacks Hydro, btw. I'm going to make some adjustments to the profile today and see how that plays out.

I will likely incorporate some flouros for heat and IR soon. Also adding a 315w CDM for the final stage table prior to flower.

Koondense said:
I use led bulbs in my veg chamber and never had issues like yours.
Plants grow normally, stay green and show zero stress.
Only trouble I had was in early/mid flowering and once in late veg but was all about too few nutrients.
Keep in mind that most seeds you get anywhere are from plants which were selected under hps lights so the spectrum differences can put them under some stress, some more some less.

Cheers

Many thanks fellas for sharing your experiences.

These seedlings are too special to me to risk continuing under this light - perhaps I'll try it with some seeds I made - so I plan to put them under the CFL and see if they bounce back.

I have wondered a lot about that, Koondense. The lighting used in the selection and making process and to what extent it factors in...

Also, what of the color temp difference... possibly it plays a role? As mentioned, I am always under 6500K at this point and these babies are under even less wattage. Eh, maybe LED just isn't for me. Was already considering going back to HID this season to see if these issues are remedied - just may yet.

Thanks again. :tiphat:

BongFu · Oct 10, 2019

Hey just out of interest if LED provides a more natural light with broader spectrum more optimised for plant growth (compared to what?) why is it that plants grow great in the sun using standard hydroponic nutrients but struggle under LED?

Ichabod Crane · Oct 10, 2019

BongFu said:
Hey just out of interest if LED provides a more natural light with broader spectrum more optimised for plant growth (compared to what?) why is it that plants grow great in the sun using standard hydroponic nutrients but struggle under LED?

If I take a plant out of my grow outside in the summer it gets bleached out and yellows just like under the LEDs.

BongFu · Oct 10, 2019

Ichabod Crane said:
If I take a plant out of my grow outside in the summer it gets bleached out and yellows just like under the LEDs.

What I am talking about is if you grow from clone or seed outdoors using hydroponic nutrients in coco coir there are zero nutrient issues. Done it several times so the question is if LED is more "natural" light (as in nature) why the nutrient issues.

Ichabod Crane · Oct 10, 2019

BongFu said:
What I am talking about is if you grow from clone or seed outdoors using hydroponic nutrients in coco coir there are zero nutrient issues. Done it several times so the question is if LED is more "natural" light (as in nature) why the nutrient issues.

I dont feed as heavy under HPS as I do under LED. If I feed the same I would get claw in the leaves. Not so under LED.

mexweed · Oct 10, 2019

my guess would be the intensity of the sun, I had a couple pepper plants outdoors that I just hit with the hose whenever they needed it and they looked amazing all season better than any weed I have ever vegged indoors, no ph measuring or anything

BongFu · Oct 10, 2019

mexweed said:
my guess would be the intensity of the sun, I had a couple pepper plants outdoors that I just hit with the hose whenever they needed it and they looked amazing all season better than any weed I have ever vegged indoors, no ph measuring or anything

Where I am we have a very intense sun in summer. Its more relative to the light being more natural as in nature. The sun has almost ideal spectrum because plants evolved under the sun. It just perplexes me because LED floggers rave on about LED providing more natural PAR optimised light but how can it be when LED requires different nutrition than is required under very natural light (as in the sun)? Really looking for some good input here. It sure has me perplexed.

mexweed · Oct 10, 2019

1200 watts vs the sun's 3.86 x 10^26 and what that difference means to plant metabolism

SuperBadGrower · Oct 10, 2019

Wow it seems like it's almost taken for granted that led = issues. Interesting phenomenon. I just finished a 3000K led-only grow 1.5gpw from seed in peat without problems again. I use 1 bottle for veg and 2 bottles for flower. Same stuff I always used under CMH and purple lol. (edit: actually, 1.4 gpw)

Lost in a SOG · Oct 10, 2019

BongFu said:
What I am talking about is if you grow from clone or seed outdoors using hydroponic nutrients in coco coir there are zero nutrient issues. Done it several times so the question is if LED is more "natural" light (as in nature) why the nutrient issues.

LED isnt neccessarily a more natural light.. many LED rigs out there suck and lets not forget how much they lack in IR..

There is a massive difference in spectrum depending on the design and chips used in an led rig..

I do prefer leds in everyway to hps but in the early days i used some shit leds and nearly fucked em off.

Shmavis · Oct 10, 2019

BongFu said:
Where I am we have a very intense sun in summer. Its more relative to the light being more natural as in nature. The sun has almost ideal spectrum because plants evolved under the sun. It just perplexes me because LED floggers rave on about LED providing more natural PAR optimised light but how can it be when LED requires different nutrition than is required under very natural light (as in the sun)? Really looking for some good input here. It sure has me perplexed.

Last year I did back-to-back grows under an HLG 550 V2 QB. Both grows showed a need for lots of improvement. Felt very confident that the failure(s) were related to the light and not my soil mix or other environmental factors - including bugs. Kept a cut from the first grow and three from the second. Put them outdoors in the spring in the same soil mix I have been using for ~15 years - same water only mix they were grown in under the QB. Did not encounter the same issues under the sun. And never dealt with anything similar in the same mix when under HID.

Frosty Nuggets · Oct 10, 2019

My plant has developed a calmag deficiency even though I have been giving it calmag at full strength of 1ml per liter, I have upped it to 2ml per liter.

BongFu · Oct 10, 2019

Lost in a SOG said:
LED isnt neccessarily a more natural light.. many LED rigs out there suck and lets not forget how much they lack in IR..

There is a massive difference in spectrum depending on the design and chips used in an led rig..

I do prefer leds in everyway to hps but in the early days i used some shit leds and nearly fucked em off.

It sounds a bit sketchy at this point re the quality of a lot of the LEDs. Thanks for the insights

Lost in a SOG · Oct 10, 2019

Problem really imo is the lack of education on the subject of optics in growers.. for the longest time people argued over MH vs HPS with nothing other than anecdotal opinion and both are actually a terrible attempt at mimicking the sun but they grow dope ok.. You can grow MJ under any light, i used a halogen once when i was 15 and it grew some bud lol, but the difference in quantity and quality will vary massively.

Lots of IQ stealing misinformation out there as well.

Drewsif · Oct 15, 2019

Lost in a SOG said:
for the longest time people argued over MH vs HPS with nothing other than anecdotal opinion and both are actually a terrible attempt at mimicking the sun but they grow dope ok.. .

The only reason thousands of Hightimes reading growers parrot the "MH veg HPS flower" line so proudly, is because there was no suitable mid spectrum bulb available to market to pot growers, and it only makes sense to sell two bulbs anyway.

So it was never a valid thing to argue about,being confined to restrictions set by marketing and consumerism, not science nor reality. Greed skews so much in this industry it's unbearable. When the only stances people can take are confined to a box produced by greed, it looks like a damn wwe match to the rest of us.

RB56 · Oct 15, 2019

If we'd all spent years using LED and were switching to HPS/MH, we'd be freaking out because we suddenly needed slightly less nutrients. Different isn't inherently better or worse. No doubt in my mind that LED is the future - just the other day, I noticed that I was using an LED flashlight and LED head lamp to adjust my LED flowering lights.

exploziv · Oct 15, 2019

For sure there is no contest between them, at least not to our eyes. I have a 100w led (cob) flashlight that I mostly use on 10-20W, rarely 30W. At 50 W + my eyes hurt from beeing in the same room with it, even through closed eyelids. A 150W mh or hps is barely noticeable when you close your eyes, even if you are near it. And to think that before I made this flashlight I was thinking I need at least 100W to be able to see outdoors at 20-30 meters away it's crazy. 50W is more than enaugh to see at more than that, and if you put a lens over it it's like you can shine the sun over any spot of pitch black you want or need.
Sorry for the offtopic, but I guess this can help others imagine how powerful a cob led is.

f-e · Oct 15, 2019

Lost in a SOG said:
LED isnt neccessarily a more natural light.. many LED rigs out there suck and lets not forget how much they lack in IR..

There is a massive difference in spectrum depending on the design and chips used in an led rig..

I do prefer leds in everyway to hps but in the early days i used some shit leds and nearly fucked em off.

It's all about that IR. The sun, and just about every other light, are so hot they give off light. Primarily, they are heaters not lights. And that heat drives water movement. LED's have that heat drained away pretty much. Just 10% of our power is radiated out with the light, not well over half of it like sodium and MH, which were, like leds, efficient lighting, not specifically grow lighting.

I can't point my finger at just the lower transpiration rates demanding that water carries more food. As while my ec needed a 40% increase, the watering frequency wasn't effected by such a great degree. Perhaps it wasn't effected at all, even at really low light levels. Meaning I'm barking up the wrong tree. The better light could simply be growing more. Nobody else seems to of talked water volume either.

Guest · Oct 16, 2019

Silly question, but would the addition of an incandescent light or those ceramic heat emitting IR lamps for livestock be a step in the right direction to include more IR in a grow space?
I think of these as temporary solutions until I can definitively say to myself that I need to supplement with legit IR led. I currently have Red (630nm) and Deep Red (660nm), but I'm lacking IR.

Frosty Nuggets · Oct 17, 2019

I am using the Black Dog Phytomax 2 400 which has IR added and I am still having to feed at a high rate.

LED feed demands

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