Organic coco..... At what point does it become soil?

Klompen · Sep 10, 2018

I was considering doing a coco-based mix on my upcoming project. Probably the main ingredients will be coco and perlite. This by itself is more like a hydroponic grow though like coco grows basically are. How much compost, minerals, peat, etc would one have to add for it to behave more like soil? What I have always loved about organic soil is that it doesn't need all the monkeying with pH, but I know with hydro setups pH is far more important. In the past I've done growing with a lot of food in the mix, but I've also seen a lot of good arguments for adding food as you go instead of starting with it in there.

I think the mix I had the most luck with in the past was about 40% coir, 20% peat, 20% perlite/diatomaceous earth, and the rest a mix of composted nutrients(bio-tone based fertilizers, worm castings, composted wildflowers, bone meal, local topsoil, gypsum, dolomite lime, llama manure, and some cattle manure all composted together for a while before being added to the mix). I was pondering maybe going for a mix with 40-60% coir, 10-20% peat, 20-30% perlite/DE, and maybe just a little compost mix of some kind. What sort of mix will give me that good organic soil behavior while giving me the good EC and drowning-proof goodness of coir/perlite?

Teddybrae · Sep 10, 2018

Friend, your references and questions are imprecise.

We can know nothing about how your mixes will perform ...

Look in the Organic Soil section for soil recipes. This should be a good starting point and the advice is proven.

I guess the point at which Coco becomes soil is the stage at which it cannot be identified as being separate from the soil. This stage most likely cannot be measured.

Klompen · Sep 10, 2018

I don't get what you're trying to say. There's plenty of soil experts on this site and plenty of odd mixes out there. One of the mixes I mentioned is one I have personally used, and I am seeking advice from people who have used similar mixes and variations thereof. I have actually read this forum for many years. I'm not looking for a specific recipe but just some generalized opinion.

Klompen · Sep 17, 2018

So my current plan is something similar to a hempy bucket, but in a grow bag instead. I am going to fill the bottom half of the bag with vermiculite/perlite 50/50 mix. Then I am going to fill the top of the bag with a mix that is 1/3 coco, 1/3 perlite, and 1/3 mushroom compost and EWC mix. Then if it needs more food over time I will top dress.

Ratzilla · Sep 25, 2018

This is how i mix it.
40% coir well rinsed
20% worm castings
20% chunky perlite
15% rice hulls
5% diatomachous earth
To this i add some Zeolite and Bentonite clay which will raised the CEC of the mix.
I basically keep my medium fairly light in amendments.
I also added different complete amendments and i recycle the mix after adding all stems and leaves from previous grows.
I also build my pots with what i refer to as buried treasures on the bottoms of my pots.I use square pots and in veg I'll add a tsp of different grow fertilizers in each corner as well as a tbsp of something dead center on the bottoms.
In flower i'll use flowering amendments featuring P & K.
I don't think of this mix as soil but treat it as such.
It's my medium!
RatZ :tiphat:

Klompen · Sep 25, 2018

Thanks that is much like what I'm hoping to do. In the past I have built something similar, but the one thing I think I did wrong was really overdo the amendments. I also used a bit of local topsoil and the bag had root aphids in it which were nothing short of a nightmare to defeat. I'm really leaning toward a KISS approach this time

Elmer Bud · Sep 25, 2018

G `day K

Less % DE .
In my exp it cakes together . Retains water .

I would recommend Great White inoculate to support your roots and process nutrients .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Klompen · Sep 25, 2018

I've heard really good things about Great White. Maybe if I get some more funds I'll order some. At this point I'm really hoping I will at least get some good genetics and have something at all to smoke by February or March. My outdoor this year was a total disaster

I put out 9 sites and over 160 seeds and NOTHING worked out. My seeds weren't great to begin with and are pretty old though. This last year I've had to keep them in a storage unit which hasn't kept them in very good shape.

bigbadbiddy · Sep 26, 2018

How do you store your seeds? Makes a huge difference...

Correctly stored they can last 5 years in the fridge easily and retain close to 100% germ rate.
Correctly stored in the freezer they can be kept more or less indefinitely but germ rate does drop a little.

Correctly stored (imho):
DARK vial/container that blocks out any light.

In that container, start with a layer of dessicant. Rice (dry) works if you have nothing else and is fine but better yet are those small silica balls that they use to keep shoes and the like dry. You can buy these in bulk and can also find versions that change color when they are saturated with moisture (mine turn green when moist and are orange when dry). You also can "bake" those (dry them again) after they got saturated with moisture. They will turn orange again and can be used again. Surely they loose some capacity over time but they work great and cost very little and are a long-term solution.

Now you don't want your seeds to get in direct contact with the dessicant as that can lead to it pulling moisture from the seeds themselves, causing them to loose viability.
So next up you need a layer of isolation. Ideally something that has no negative influence when in contact with the seeds.

Cotton balls work well for example. I used those for makeup removal for women. Cheap and last a lot and do the job.

Then you layer your seeds on the cotton, top them with another layer of cotton and another layer of dessicant. Close the container, mark it well, put it in the fridge for up to 5 years storage or the freezer for longer.

This method is tried and proven and works well for many with great results. I had 100% germ rate from the fridge kept seeds after 2 years, no issue whatsoever.

OkieSmokie · Sep 26, 2018

IMHO Coco becomes soil when enough living organic matter is added that the mix becomes a LIVING biosphere. That life makes living soil. Now much can be debated about how we get to that point.

If its not a living bio-sphere then you have a soil-less medium. These usually must be treated like hydro.

Klompen · Sep 26, 2018

bigbadbiddy said:
How do you store your seeds? Makes a huge difference...

I did store them in the fridge for years sealed in bags, but I haven't had anywhere to have a fridge for over a year now.

bigbadbiddy · Sep 27, 2018

Did you use a dessicant?

It is super important to keep them dry.

Even without a fridge, if you keep them away from light and use a dessicant, afaik they can last for years with 100% germ rate.

The germ rate normally drops due to either contact with light or moisture or big variances in temperature.

While a fridge is preferable, the low temperature from it is not key in storing the seeds. It extends the shelf life massively but it is not the key.

Key is dark, dry and constant temperature. Then they can last for years even at room temp.

GOT_BUD? · Sep 27, 2018

My seed collection spent 2 years in an uninsulated storage unit with only desiccant thoroughly and liberally spread amongst the packs. The rest of the time they've been stored in the freezer the same way, since 2005-6 when I started collecting.

So far I'm getting a 90ish percent germ rate. But I haven't gone too deep into my collection either. Still trying to get my environment 95ish% before diving into my "good" seeds.

Klompen · Sep 27, 2018

Yeah I did have desiccants in there with it, but the seeds are also pretty old. Life's been sort of chaotic the last couple years, and the seeds haven't been a high priority. Its not like most of them were quality genetics anyway

Dozee · Nov 25, 2018

I have 4000 gal of used coir I'm composting. Mixing with grass and hay . Using jadam ferments thenletting anarobic cold ferment for 3 months plus . Then feeding it to the worms for another few months and amending .

Klompen · Nov 25, 2018

Only 4000 gallons?! I don't even think that would fit in my entire home... lol

Dog Star · Nov 25, 2018

Am dont get why coco when you wish actually soil.. why not pure soil mix then??

Aerators just made ph swings and its easier to grow in pure soil mixes..

when i think pure than there will be whithouth any kind of aerator,nor even peat..

only in that way your "coco" will become good organic soil mix..

mean mr.mustard · Nov 25, 2018

Coco doesn't become soil... I believe it simply ceases to be soil-less mix when you add things to it.

Remember pH swings aren't necessarily a bad thing.

CrushnYuba · Nov 26, 2018

I think once you start throwing in allot of amendments and organic material it becomes soil.
I have made organic mixes with coco that were 60% or so coco that did really well.

Klompen · Nov 26, 2018

Ok Mr. Mustard.... I mean "coco mix". I know pure coco, much like pure anything else cannot be a soil. Soil is a aggregate. So I mean an aggregate primarily consisting of coco.

Organic coco..... At what point does it become soil?

Active member

Teddybrae

Active member

Active member

Member

Active member

Genotype Sex Worker AKA strain whore

Active member

Active member

Member

Active member

Active member

Weed is a gateway to gardening

Active member

Member

Active member

Active member

I Pass Satellites

Well-known member

Active member