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Anyone breed males?
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Amber Trich
Active member
id like to spend more time on the males...
in the grape krush line there was a BEAUTIFUL unique male with strange hooked flowers. Id love to see what else can be found within the canna-males!
heres a hotty moonshine gentlemen
what can I say, Im a little boy crazy hahaha
my boyfriend is working on moonshine x sweet tooth specifically to find a special male for breeding.
in the grape krush line there was a BEAUTIFUL unique male with strange hooked flowers. Id love to see what else can be found within the canna-males!
heres a hotty moonshine gentlemen
what can I say, Im a little boy crazy hahaha
my boyfriend is working on moonshine x sweet tooth specifically to find a special male for breeding.
I select males with traits I want to pass on.
Line breeding to stabilize involves selecting males over and over. But the goal is a female so usually I don't try to improve the males specifically.
Line breeding to stabilize involves selecting males over and over. But the goal is a female so usually I don't try to improve the males specifically.
if you breed a line to be true breeding, the males will also always pass on the same traits that the females regularly express
Gram Paw smurf
Member
Not so sure thas true, seen lines n have seen others mention the same where males display certain traits n the fems others.
I get there is a general stability, but I've considered and seen signs of the possibility of traits being isolated to a specific sex within a consistent stable line.
Like a line where only the males herm, n the fems nvr really do outside of being forced or really stressed in general.
I personally think we see genetics a lot more simply than they really are most of the time, just because it allows us to have a little fun in trying to predict and control what may happen.
Pot's a lot like god though far as our plans are concerned.
There's a great article somewhere on the web about "cannabis trait combinations" or something like that, that was going on about traits not being as singular as we simplify n observe them.
I've noticed it to be true more often than not, that usually when focusing in on a singular specific trait it will tend to be a part of a specific number of combinations of traits, and when you lose one of the combined traits the others that are partial to showing up with that trait tend to disappear with it.
Like trying to isolate a specific flavour profile, but it might be connected to a certain growth trait one might not appreciate as much, but if you strt growing out all the offspring from said bred project without the unwanted growth trait than you start losing the wanted flavour trait, n strt getting something else you may not be interested in, than you can go back to all with the unappreciated growth trait present and grow them out, and strt seeing more of the flavour trait you want again.
I've seen flavour traits connected to growth traits in a line that actually dictate the split in the line between herm males without herm fems and others where the males won't herm but fem flavours are not what was searched for, but I nvr got as far as observing whether the fems herm'd at all in the line where the males didn't.
It's a bit of anecdotal observation, but my feeling is that a herm susceptible trait in a line might possibly be isolatable in either sex same as it was isolated in the line itself, so if you wanted the line for male breeders you'd keep the herm trait to the fem side of the line, but if you wanted the moms to hit than youd try n isolate the trait to the males of the line n hopefully isolate it from the moms capabilities.
lol when you strt thinking about it all you can see clearly how we simplify so much for our having fun with predictions and "control".
It is pretty fun though, guessing n hoping to find exactly what you want from a line, especially when it's 1 you've made.
More often than not it's not a perfect representation of what we want, n there's little things that might suit us better but are as they are, but it's part of the fun too cause even a subjectively imperfect line or plant or smoke can be a really nice representation of what the species is capable of.
lol This of course is all aside from the fact that this ALL is extremely subjective since we're talking about "good or bad" traits that really only represent a specific and very subjective taste.
Taste of 1 breeder says nothing about everyone else's right.
Anywho, always interesting convos to be had about breeding n genetics imo.
cheers all,......................................................gps
I get there is a general stability, but I've considered and seen signs of the possibility of traits being isolated to a specific sex within a consistent stable line.
Like a line where only the males herm, n the fems nvr really do outside of being forced or really stressed in general.
I personally think we see genetics a lot more simply than they really are most of the time, just because it allows us to have a little fun in trying to predict and control what may happen.
Pot's a lot like god though far as our plans are concerned.
There's a great article somewhere on the web about "cannabis trait combinations" or something like that, that was going on about traits not being as singular as we simplify n observe them.
I've noticed it to be true more often than not, that usually when focusing in on a singular specific trait it will tend to be a part of a specific number of combinations of traits, and when you lose one of the combined traits the others that are partial to showing up with that trait tend to disappear with it.
Like trying to isolate a specific flavour profile, but it might be connected to a certain growth trait one might not appreciate as much, but if you strt growing out all the offspring from said bred project without the unwanted growth trait than you start losing the wanted flavour trait, n strt getting something else you may not be interested in, than you can go back to all with the unappreciated growth trait present and grow them out, and strt seeing more of the flavour trait you want again.
I've seen flavour traits connected to growth traits in a line that actually dictate the split in the line between herm males without herm fems and others where the males won't herm but fem flavours are not what was searched for, but I nvr got as far as observing whether the fems herm'd at all in the line where the males didn't.
It's a bit of anecdotal observation, but my feeling is that a herm susceptible trait in a line might possibly be isolatable in either sex same as it was isolated in the line itself, so if you wanted the line for male breeders you'd keep the herm trait to the fem side of the line, but if you wanted the moms to hit than youd try n isolate the trait to the males of the line n hopefully isolate it from the moms capabilities.
lol when you strt thinking about it all you can see clearly how we simplify so much for our having fun with predictions and "control".
It is pretty fun though, guessing n hoping to find exactly what you want from a line, especially when it's 1 you've made.
More often than not it's not a perfect representation of what we want, n there's little things that might suit us better but are as they are, but it's part of the fun too cause even a subjectively imperfect line or plant or smoke can be a really nice representation of what the species is capable of.
lol This of course is all aside from the fact that this ALL is extremely subjective since we're talking about "good or bad" traits that really only represent a specific and very subjective taste.
Taste of 1 breeder says nothing about everyone else's right.
Anywho, always interesting convos to be had about breeding n genetics imo.
cheers all,......................................................gps
PDX Dopesmoker
Active member
Anyone who has a male plant that has the demonstrated ability to substantially improve potency in it's female offspring has something way more valuable than a clone-only girl.
The best thing to do is breed for only one trait at a time. So you breed for that "specific flavor profile". And keep all plants with that trait regardless of height/yield etc. Once your line is sufficiently smelly you then run it again but this time select for yield. Then continue on trait by trait. Luckily generations are short so you can get what you want in a few years. Maybe 5 years to get the perfect stable strain.
Rare Pheno
Member
I love the variation of phenotypes to select from, I can see narrowing your traits down, but I think you would spend years getting the male just right and during that time you could have just pheno hunted the girl you wanted and backcross or make f2's. Just seems much easier imo
This is true...
But kind of vague...
Folks whine about cannabis not being true breeding but they need to expand on what they want to breed true.
When speaking of "true breeding" cultivars, folks need to say what it breeds true for... If at all...
True breeding tomatoes dont just make tomatoes...
They make tomatoes that produce very specific characteristics.
With that said...
Folks can still realize variations within a true breeding line.
It depends on your interpretation. True breeding to me means seedlings will be of similar phenotypes. And F2's will look like parents.
If you know anything about F2's only a true breeding strain or tomato can produce identical F2's.
Landrace Strains are often true breeding.
Fuel
Active member
I consider myself the term "true breeding" as a vague argotic word to express a marketing argument. That's an interpretation.
I will not arg on landraces or on F2, it's a waste of time at this point.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anyone breed males?
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes, i have a couple of lines that are dedicated to the expression of the males.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I get there is a general stability, but I've considered and seen signs of the possibility of traits being isolated to a specific sex within a consistent stable line.
I agree, sometimes the genotype's specificities are directly linked with the sex of the specimens used.
By example and for the case of the Sweet Tooth #3, if you want to "breed true" (sic) the specific taste and scents of the females, you have to use the males the majority of the time or you will only "breed true" a yield/vigor improvement by the females. And a BX will not help to recover it without destroying the genetical host.
In the same vein, the white widow/black widow males are well known [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]since decades [/FONT]to whip any bitchy genoptype in a easier strain to grow, without excessive "footprint" in the final weed. It generated quickly at this time a saturation of the market with "white" hybrids by the way.
I disagree on the formal conditions of the stability, it's just a question of dominance between twos genotypes. The best proof of it is the numerous seedbanks that tend to build theyr genpool around a limited number of males if not only one.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I've noticed it to be true more often than not, that usually when focusing in on a singular specific trait it will tend to be a part of a specific number of combinations of traits, and when you lose one of the combined traits the others that are partial to showing up with that trait tend to disappear with it.[/FONT]
It's hard to disagree with that, because i find that is the perfect synthesis of what the breeding of cannabis is in practice : juggling with linked traits to create a reccurent pattern.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is pretty fun though, guessing n hoping to find exactly what you want from a line, especially when it's 1 you've made.[/FONT]
This is the modern way. But it was not like that since the begin. Today, speaking about IBLs is like announcing that you walk on the water. Patience is not longer a virtue but a miracle, i guess.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anyone who has a male plant that has the demonstrated ability to substantially improve potency in it's female offspring has something way more valuable than a clone-only girl. [/FONT]
I totally agree. But in another hand a weed producer will never build a name on a male. That's our fate if i can say : clone only girls without real pedigree.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I think you would spend years getting the male just right and during that time you could have just pheno hunted the girl you wanted and backcross or make f2's. Just seems much easier imo [/FONT]
It's more about the habits (of the majority of growers) to cull fast the males that anything else. Wich finally lead to the feminized market btw.
Males aren't a genotypic subcategory or a kind of aliens that must be selected as it. They are just the brothers of theyr sisters to stay simple, and theyr are dominated by the exact same rules of theyr genotype.
No one encounter difficulties to select the specimens when they are in theyr asexual phase, it's only when the flowers come that usually people tend to develop esoteric considerations, only by lack of references. And it's worse each year by the feminized seeds domination of the market, to do a loop.
When you're used to evaluate males like females as the strict same genotype, you no longer need to select by analogy. But i consider that it is the best starting point for those interrested by long term projects, the time to stack enough references in theyr heads/hands/nose/eyes/tongue.
[/FONT]
I will not arg on landraces or on F2, it's a waste of time at this point.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anyone breed males?
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes, i have a couple of lines that are dedicated to the expression of the males.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I get there is a general stability, but I've considered and seen signs of the possibility of traits being isolated to a specific sex within a consistent stable line.
I agree, sometimes the genotype's specificities are directly linked with the sex of the specimens used.
By example and for the case of the Sweet Tooth #3, if you want to "breed true" (sic) the specific taste and scents of the females, you have to use the males the majority of the time or you will only "breed true" a yield/vigor improvement by the females. And a BX will not help to recover it without destroying the genetical host.
In the same vein, the white widow/black widow males are well known [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]since decades [/FONT]to whip any bitchy genoptype in a easier strain to grow, without excessive "footprint" in the final weed. It generated quickly at this time a saturation of the market with "white" hybrids by the way.
I disagree on the formal conditions of the stability, it's just a question of dominance between twos genotypes. The best proof of it is the numerous seedbanks that tend to build theyr genpool around a limited number of males if not only one.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I've noticed it to be true more often than not, that usually when focusing in on a singular specific trait it will tend to be a part of a specific number of combinations of traits, and when you lose one of the combined traits the others that are partial to showing up with that trait tend to disappear with it.[/FONT]
It's hard to disagree with that, because i find that is the perfect synthesis of what the breeding of cannabis is in practice : juggling with linked traits to create a reccurent pattern.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is pretty fun though, guessing n hoping to find exactly what you want from a line, especially when it's 1 you've made.[/FONT]
This is the modern way. But it was not like that since the begin. Today, speaking about IBLs is like announcing that you walk on the water. Patience is not longer a virtue but a miracle, i guess.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anyone who has a male plant that has the demonstrated ability to substantially improve potency in it's female offspring has something way more valuable than a clone-only girl. [/FONT]
I totally agree. But in another hand a weed producer will never build a name on a male. That's our fate if i can say : clone only girls without real pedigree.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I think you would spend years getting the male just right and during that time you could have just pheno hunted the girl you wanted and backcross or make f2's. Just seems much easier imo [/FONT]
It's more about the habits (of the majority of growers) to cull fast the males that anything else. Wich finally lead to the feminized market btw.
Males aren't a genotypic subcategory or a kind of aliens that must be selected as it. They are just the brothers of theyr sisters to stay simple, and theyr are dominated by the exact same rules of theyr genotype.
No one encounter difficulties to select the specimens when they are in theyr asexual phase, it's only when the flowers come that usually people tend to develop esoteric considerations, only by lack of references. And it's worse each year by the feminized seeds domination of the market, to do a loop.
When you're used to evaluate males like females as the strict same genotype, you no longer need to select by analogy. But i consider that it is the best starting point for those interrested by long term projects, the time to stack enough references in theyr heads/hands/nose/eyes/tongue.
[/FONT]
RedDirtWarrior
Member
sounds like "true breeding" is just a narrowed down gene pool of desirable characteristics?
Sounds like a good philosophy for killing genetic variety.
Seems this is how all the breeders breed their seeds now though.
Sounds like a good philosophy for killing genetic variety.
Seems this is how all the breeders breed their seeds now though.
There is simply no such thing as true breeding in the cannabis scene.
Even the “ true breeding” skunk#1 is all over the place in terms of terps, height, maturation etc...
It’s a long con and what we’ve always had are hybrids to put it fairly.
What we’re seeing now with outfits like the jungle boys is exactly what Neville and Sam did in the 70’s and 80’s
The recipe is as follows
Isolated female x isolated male (or reversed female) the plants are both hybrids themselves or land races and the result is a novelty act
Neville paid for the best cultivars the world has to offer and proceeded to create amazing hybrids
Ever wonder why no one can replicate the skunk?
Where did that old black domina go? How about the fabled Santa Cruz haze?
They can’t be reporoduced cause the parental stock was never real stock but in reality cultivated clones of exceptional quality that were hybridized to create insane vigor
Our beloved hobbie is based on novelty and exceptional cloned cultivars imo
It’s always been about clones from exceptional cultivars and it always will be
Even the “ true breeding” skunk#1 is all over the place in terms of terps, height, maturation etc...
It’s a long con and what we’ve always had are hybrids to put it fairly.
What we’re seeing now with outfits like the jungle boys is exactly what Neville and Sam did in the 70’s and 80’s
The recipe is as follows
Isolated female x isolated male (or reversed female) the plants are both hybrids themselves or land races and the result is a novelty act
Neville paid for the best cultivars the world has to offer and proceeded to create amazing hybrids
Ever wonder why no one can replicate the skunk?
Where did that old black domina go? How about the fabled Santa Cruz haze?
They can’t be reporoduced cause the parental stock was never real stock but in reality cultivated clones of exceptional quality that were hybridized to create insane vigor
Our beloved hobbie is based on novelty and exceptional cloned cultivars imo
It’s always been about clones from exceptional cultivars and it always will be
With more home growers entering the wold of cannabis each season. The easiest route is to buy feminized seeds. With small cabinets, closets and grow areas. I think it's only a matter of time before male feminized seeds are a sought after option. Then the grower could buy two seeds of the strain they want to cross with.
You wouldn't need half your small 8 plant grow to find a good male. You could buy a good male and pollinate 7 females of your choice. Then having a multitude of new genetics to be amused by.
I have spoken with a couple very well known breeders on this subject in the last year. I will leave it at opinions varied. One breeder I gained even more respect for.
Peace
You wouldn't need half your small 8 plant grow to find a good male. You could buy a good male and pollinate 7 females of your choice. Then having a multitude of new genetics to be amused by.
I have spoken with a couple very well known breeders on this subject in the last year. I will leave it at opinions varied. One breeder I gained even more respect for.
Peace
PDX Dopesmoker
Active member
Don't leave us hanging, what was the one breeder special move that the rest of us haven't caught on to yet?
PDX Dopesmoker, It wasn't what the breeder did but what the other breeder didn't do. I will say both breeder's admitted they had never reversed a male plant. One breeder thought the idea very interesting for conversation's sake. The other seemed much more interested in the monetary side that was already available between feminized and regular seeds. I have no interest in bad mouthing anyone because their opinion or answer. I was simply asking a question out of curiosities sake. Both breeders were kind enough to reply and give me their thoughts.
The market for feminized male seeds is certainly the great unknown. Male seeds can be found in the regular packs of seeds. For some crosses growers are doing, male feminized seeds would be a convenient short cut on selecting a male donor. I only run around twenty plants in my greenhouse. I'm running four Landrace Lebanese plants in the hope of getting one good male. If I could get one or two seeds that I knew were males. I could add two more strains or at least two more females to the breeding project. Peace
The market for feminized male seeds is certainly the great unknown. Male seeds can be found in the regular packs of seeds. For some crosses growers are doing, male feminized seeds would be a convenient short cut on selecting a male donor. I only run around twenty plants in my greenhouse. I'm running four Landrace Lebanese plants in the hope of getting one good male. If I could get one or two seeds that I knew were males. I could add two more strains or at least two more females to the breeding project. Peace
Farmerlion,
You should have more seeds to be sure to have a good male than just 2 seeds. The better the parental line the lesser seeds you'll need to find a male good enough to use as father.
Even from a well selected strain like f.e. Kali Mist, Guawi or Destroyer I'd use at least 5 to 10 males. Of course the more to choose from, the more chance to find something really special.
Siever
You should have more seeds to be sure to have a good male than just 2 seeds. The better the parental line the lesser seeds you'll need to find a male good enough to use as father.
Even from a well selected strain like f.e. Kali Mist, Guawi or Destroyer I'd use at least 5 to 10 males. Of course the more to choose from, the more chance to find something really special.
Siever
