Colorado doctors claim first marijuana overdose death

Man this makes me angry...

http://www.9news.com/news/health/colorado-doctors-claim-first-marijuana-overdose-death/491760125

Squall, my browser refuses to connect with that site. Can you give a brief rundown on what it says and why it makes you angry?

oldchuck said:

Squall, my browser refuses to connect with that site. Can you give a brief rundown on what it says and why it makes you angry?

Click to expand...

Thats weird, won't let me connect either. Just google the title and you'll find the article. Basically the doctors were adamant that cannabis was responsible for the child's death, even though anything could have caused the condition.

The certificate is bad. That's why your browser won't let you connect to the site.

In any case, other researchers dispute the claim.

The authors of the study cannot show causation, only correlation.

every quack doctor out there that gets his mitts on you and finds out what your insurance covers suddenly has a lot of bullshit he want to put you through. won't cost you a thing of course, you've been pre fleeced. all they need to do to convert your wasted insurance money to their bankroll is to put you through some sort of painful & unnecessary "treatment".

yeah doctors, upstanding & trustworthy citizens and not greedy bastards who'd stoop to anything to make a buck. its just a coincidence that they're all loaded rich. any one of them would suck dick professionally as long as their was enough cash in it for them. that might be a better use of their medical education in terms of harm prevention

During the 1990 (unconstitutional) recrim vote in Alaska, a grower I knew suggested we do a commercial for the legalization/pro-Ravin side of the issue, and get some John Houseman type fellow (Paper Chase fame) to show the classic graph (on a chalk board) of lethality for various substances with cannabis at the bottom with the '0' listed, then cut to some classic fly-by-night dock in the Florida Keys, off-loading a freighter's load of the infamous 50-lb. bales in the middle of the night, whereupon the Houseman-type character would say, "In fact, there's only ONE means of death resulting from cannabis that we're aware of." At which point a bale would be seen falling from the cargo netting, and landing on one of the laborers on the dock.

But in seriousness, the prohibitionists, for whom the War On (Some) Drugs means big bucks to their supporters, will stoop to any level to correlate lethality to reefer. They've had over 80 years to practice at their lies.

11/15
KUSA - Two poison control doctors claim to have documented the first known case of death by marijuana overdose, sparking a medical debate over what killed an 11-month-old baby in Colorado two years ago.

The case report was published in the journal Clinical Practice and Cases in Emergency Medicine and is co-authored by a pair of doctors at the Rocky Mountain Poison and Drug Center, which is housed at Denver Health.

The doctors behind the case report, Doctors Thomas Nappe and Christopher Hoyte, worked on the baby’s care as part of their duties at the regional poison control center. They claim that damage to the child’s heart muscle, which was listed as the boy’s cause of death, was brought on by ingesting marijuana. This is the first news story in which either of the doctors publicly discussed the case that was published in a medical journal in March of this year.

“The only thing that we found was marijuana. High concentrations of marijuana in his blood. And that’s the only thing we found,” Hoyte said. “The kid never really got better. And just one thing led to another and the kid ended up with a heart stopped. And the kid stopped breathing and died.”

The case report makes what amounts to a very bold statement in the scientific world, “As of this writing, this is the first reported pediatric death associated with cannabis exposure.”

If correct, the phenomenon Dr. Hoyte claims to have documented would remain the only time a marijuana overdose is known to have caused a human death.

Other doctors are deeply skeptical of the strong language used in the report.

“That statement is too much. It’s too much as far as I’m concerned,” said Dr. Noah Kaufman, an emergency medicine specialist based in Northern Colorado. “Because that is saying confidently that this is the first case. ‘We’ve got one!’ And I still disagree with that.”

It’s widely accepted as fact that marijuana overdoses are not fatal. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration fact sheet on pot says simply that “no death from overdose of marijuana has been reported” and the National Institutes of Health says there is “insufficient evidence” to link THC overdose to fatalities.

The claim that an overdose death happened in Colorado has the potential to change the way people think about the steady march toward marijuana legalization in the US.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Watch 9NEWS at 9 and 10 p.m. to see Brandon Rittiman's full report.

WHAT THEY CLAIM HAPPENED AND WHY IT’S CONTROVERSIAL

Both published accounts of this case clearly state that the autopsy shows that the 11-month-old boy died of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) which caused the heart to fail.

The Nappe/Hoyte published case study takes the diagnosis a step further, theorizing that the myocarditis was caused by cannabis overdose, which then caused the baby boy’s heart to fail.

That diagnosis of this heart condition is at the core of the medical debate over this case study.

Myocarditis is rare in children, and can often be fatal when diagnosed. In children, fatal myocarditis is usually caused by a virus called Coxsackievirus. The authors of the case report say that virus was ruled out in this case.

Myocarditis has a long list of other known causes, mostly from infections by bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasites.

I'm curious why they're going to the media with this. They haven't written a paper and submitted it to peer review. Haven't had anyone else in the medical community look into it. Two poison control doctors with their limited knowledge and experience claiming something extremely statistically unlikely happened. Wonder if they have an agenda? Considering the timing and location in a recreational state? If the media was responsible they wouldn't report it but we know they will run with it.
As far as Mycocarditis, to quote wikipedia: 'A large number of causes of myocarditis have been identified, but often a cause cannot be found.'
This means their claims are bogus. No way it can be proved or disproved. Among the causes, alcohol consumption, allergies, carbon monoxide, electric shock, could be one of any number of things.
It isn't impossible that the boy was allergic to cannabis, that his body reacted with inflammation that effected his heart muscle. Not impossible but very very very unlikely.

1. No other study of cannabinoids and animals have found anything which affects the heart.
2. Cannabinoids and THC are VERY strong anti-inflammatory agents.
3. It's EXTREMELY unlikely the child ingested cannabis free of pesticides or other chemicals, there is very little "Clean" cannabis in Colorado or any other state in union.

Great, Congress is going to eat this up worse than BHO. Even though alcohol kills a whole lot of people every year let alone tobacco.

More on the story:https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article184929293.html
The 11-month-old male was admitted to the emergency department after having a seizure, according to the study. Over the previous several days, the child was “irritable” and had been retching and lethargic, the child’s guardian told the doctors. They examined the child and looked at his history and found him to be an otherwise perfectly normal and healthy boy.

The boy was unresponsive in the hospital and kept getting worse. The doctors intubated him to keep him breathing after his nervous system began shutting down.

Then his heart stopped. The doctors tried everything - infusions, CPR, various medicines - but it was no use, and he died about one hour later, the report says.

After the boy’s death, the doctors tried to figure out what went wrong. The boy had presented with all the symptoms of a condition called myocarditis, where the heart muscles become inflamed. After looking at his blood, they found what they claim is the culprit - evidence of THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

They looked and looked for any other factors that may have caused the child’s condition, but couldn’t find anything, they said.

“The only thing that we found was marijuana. High concentrations of marijuana in his blood. And that’s the only thing we found,” Hoyte told KUSA. “The kid never really got better. And just one thing led to another and the kid ended up with a heart stopped. And the kid stopped breathing and died.”

......"Based on the timing of his symptoms, doctors concluded that the child had consumed a lot of marijuana very quickly, at one time, and didn’t get sick from being exposed to cannabis over time, such as from people smoking around him. They wrote that urine screening for marijuana may be useful if other patients come in with the same symptoms and doctors can’t find a cause.

“In the age of legalized marijuana, children are at increased risk of exposure, mainly through ingestion of food products, or ‘edibles,’” they wrote.

...Still, some doctors were skeptical of the connection, pointing out that there were still many other possible risk factors that could have caused the child’s condition. “It’s too much as far as I’m concerned,” Dr. Noah Kaufman, an emergency medicine specialist, told KUSA. “Because that is saying confidently that this is the first case. ‘We’ve got one!’ And I still disagree with that.”"

I can see where an 11 month old could overdose. Recall a few times I ate too many laced cookies and was out of it for ~12 hrs., felt nauseous, etc.

Perhaps levels were too high for the toddler being ingested at one time. Sad situation and yes, anti-cannabis folk will jump on the band wagon.

Yeah there's a lot wrong here. They say he had been showing symptoms for several days. When did he ingest the THC? If there was a high amount in his blood stream he had to have eaten it in the previous 8 hours.
We haven't heard from the parents. I'd think they'd have an idea of when, how much, important details like that.
Comparing overdosing on edibles and having a fatal heart condition is silly. Tripping out and deciding you're dying because you're too high is not the same thing as having a life threatening medical condition. You can psyche yourself into throwing up, going to the ER, doing all kinds of stupid stuff. Doesn't mean your life is in danger.
Researchers had to drown rats in hash oil before they died from cannabis. As I mull it over it sounds like they're using the poor kid's death for 5 minutes of fame. I'd like to know more about the background of the doctors.
Edit: Did a quick google, apparently the parents were druggies living in motels. Considering cardiomyocarditis can be caused by booze, drugs, viruses, bacteria, fungi, parasites, hard to say what the boy had been exposed to. Many of which leave the system much quicker then THC. Opiates, cocaine, xanax, can leave the system in two or three days. It was several days before they brought the child to a hospital.
The news crew reporting is so mickey mouse they have quotes from 'Dr Noah Kaufman, emergency room specialist'. Arguing against the likelihood of a cannabis overload. None of these people are remotely experts in their field..

aridbud said:

Over the previous several days, the child was “irritable” and had been retching and lethargic, the child’s guardian told the doctors. They examined the child and looked at his history and found him to be an otherwise perfectly normal and healthy boy.

Click to expand...

Azadirachtin overdose. Highly unlikely they tested for it, though it's been known to kill more than one child.

This may open dialog of all the sprays/pesticides rec mj uses, which are many, and hopefully changes made. Just because it's organic (neem, etc.) doesn't mean it's safe. Unfortunately, the little tyke died.

Hope I am wrong, but this seems like a dream come true for an opposition, which never gave a damn about anything akin to integrity.

Green Squall said:

That's weird, won't let me connect either. <snip>

Click to expand...

All you have to do is click the link, which will give you a warning page. Then delete the "https://" in the address bar, then press the Enter Key.

Turns out the news agencies misreported the original story.
'We are absolutely not saying that marijuana killed that child,” said Dr. Thomas Nappe, an author of the report who is now the director of medical toxicology at St. Luke’s University Health Network in Bethlehem, Pa.'
I knew someone here had an agenda. Turns out to be the news agencies. Glad it's getting straightened out.
'Nappe, who co-authored the report with Dr. Christopher Hoyte, explained that the doctors simply observed this unusual sequence of events, documented it and alerted the medical community that it is worth studying a possible relationship between cannabis and the child’s cause of death, myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart muscle.'
'The report recommends: “In states where cannabis is legalized, it is important that physicians not only counsel parents on preventing exposure to cannabis, but to also consider cannabis toxicity in unexplained pediatric myocarditis and cardiac deaths as a basis for urine drug screening in this setting.”'
I wonder how many news agencies will apologize for printing the original story?
link to the entire article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ijuana-overdose-death/?utm_term=.2ee51340ee88

"i wonder how many news agencies will apologize..." . i'm betting the number will be ZERO, because the headline will sell buttloads of papers to morons that want to believe it is true. just like Elvis fans want to think he is alive & well living in a Las Vegas penthouse apartment...

The news reporting is sensationalism. This event occurred 2 years ago and the paper was just published in March of 2017. It seemed the paper was centered toward the speculation that cannabis caused the condition and death since the THC metabolite was the only thing found in the autopsy toxicology reports. The news jumped all over this, especially since it occurred in a state that has legalized recreational cannabis. I do have to say the title of the paper itself is a little misleading.

Too bad the child died but it seems there may be much more to this story. Read the paper.

https://escholarship.org/uc/item/1n10w5pc

I remember when Colorado first went legal there was this news story I read that told the incident of a dog that got into their owners edibles, became very sick, was taken to the vet and ultimately died as a result of what it had eaten. The article went on to tell of the increased amount of vet visits as a result of animals indulging on peoples stash and how dangerous marijuana is for animals etc. Obviously this was meant to catch the attention of animals lovers and sway them into fearing the use of cannabis. What they failed to mention was if by any chance the edibles contained chocolate which is toxic to dogs and cats.

It doesn't take much to sway the opinion of someone who has a lack of knowledge about a situation, or in this case a plant. Hopefully someone won't get into some catnip and die, else a lot of cats will have to be put behind bars for their drug use.