Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Growing in Coco Coir > First coco grow -> very slow growth

Thread Title Search
Click to Visit Cannapot for Cannabis Genetics
Post Reply
First coco grow -> very slow growth Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-19-2017, 08:22 PM #31
maimunji
Member

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 771
maimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nicemaimunji is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreza View Post
Leaching works well but I feel bad polluting for no good reason, since it's easy to get the same results by adjusting a few parameters.
need more oxygen? => grow in smaller container and feed more often
eliminate salt build up? => feed at lower EC in the first place
need to automate your tent? => blumat all the way

When I see the nonexistent rootmass in those pictures, and people advising daily (or more!!) feed with runoff when the plant is starving for Mg... you guys know that you can drown a plant, even in coco.
Exactly
maimunji is offline Quote


Old 10-20-2017, 05:53 PM #32
Snypie
Member

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 136
Snypie is on a distinguished road
The things do not change... I am very very disappointed :(
Not this is my problem?

"Consequently, plants that do not have enough of some ions such as calcium (there are several) from under feeding or washing out, will show deficiency in these and other elements while the potassium builds up in the plant tissue ultimately to express as margin burning on the leaf surface, mostly at the tip. The first thing the inexperienced grower assumes is that they are feeding too high and have salt issues so they back up the feed concentration and leach the medium. This, of course, magnifies the problem and it gets worse. The key to proper coco growing is to use the right feed to balance the products the coco gives off, not just the availability of minerals, but their ratios too, see figure B. It is equally important to water correctly."

From canna-uk.com

Last edited by Snypie; 10-20-2017 at 06:31 PM..
Snypie is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-20-2017, 10:08 PM #33
ibreza
Newbie

Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 14
ibreza is on a distinguished road
Well it's hardly been a week, give it some time. plus your plants are in bad shape so the uptake may be slow.
To speed up the recovery you can foliar feed some epsom salt. mix some water with 0.5g/l epsom salt and spray it on the underside of the leaves.
ibreza is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-20-2017, 10:59 PM #34
Snypie
Member

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 136
Snypie is on a distinguished road
OK, thank you. I sprayed them and raised the lamp. When the leafs are dry i will lower it again. Can i do it again tomorrow?
And please lets talk about the nute strength. So my tap water is 0.5 EC (or 260 ppm). I add nutes (400 ppm/ 0.8EC?? is this enough or strong) till 1.3 EC (660 ppm) + 0.3 gr/liter Epsom. Or the Epsom is in the total 1.3 EC?
I hope you understand what i want to ask.
Snypie is offline Quote


Old 10-21-2017, 06:11 AM #35
Miraculous Meds
Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,638
Miraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snypie View Post
OK, thank you. I sprayed them and raised the lamp. When the leafs are dry i will lower it again. Can i do it again tomorrow?
And please lets talk about the nute strength. So my tap water is 0.5 EC (or 260 ppm). I add nutes (400 ppm/ 0.8EC?? is this enough or strong) till 1.3 EC (660 ppm) + 0.3 gr/liter Epsom. Or the Epsom is in the total 1.3 EC?
I hope you understand what i want to ask.

Hi snypie, lets see if I can help you get on the right track. You can do many different approaches, but ill share with you what works for me and some fundamentals of why. Im going to cover a few basics that you may have well under control, or maybe not, that could cause or exasperate this problem.


First, make sure you have adequate air circulation. All leaves should be lightly moving, but not turbulent. No stagnant spots in the grow area. Second, your temp and humidity should be relative to each other to meet the best vpd. So if your running 80f, in veg, then 70 to 75% is best. If its 30%, or lower, your definitely exasperating the problem. Make sure your light and bulb are performing correctly.


Not all coir is equal, not even the same brand from bag to bag. that's why some people can water daily form the start, while others drown their plants. That, and different environments.


Now lets discuss water frequency. Never let the coir get to the dryness it came out of the bag after putting a plant in it. That, imo, is where the bulk of your problem started. I like to shoot for
about 30% moisture from the original bag dry starting point, before watering again. When I use perlite mixes, I almost always can water the next day. When I use straight coir, if the plant is slow, or I transplant into a bigger pot, it sometimes takes another day before they get to that 30% moisture dryness again. It usually takes 2 to 3 water cycles, or 3 to 6 days before the plants feel too light the next day. this is again where you can start a problem from drying out too much. Now its imperative to water daily and if they get bone dry you must transplant soon, or set up to water multi times, or the constant over drying will cause the nute build up, k tox, mg/ca def, basically everything.


Now lets talk nutrient strength. Im a believer in any decent nutrient line that gives you the correct ratio. Basically, almost any made for this industry. Ive used heads gh 6/9 with great success, but switched to jacks, for cost and to get away from gh's parent co. Plants only need 1 to 1.2ec of base nutrients period (disclaimer, from my experiences of running a lot of elite cuts and seed lines). I learned this nutrient strength concept from h3ad, heath robinson, and a few others. Don't waste your time looking at my work, just take a look at those guys work. It pretty much ends most of the speculation.


Now the reason you want to use 1 to 1.2ec from the start is because of coirs cec. In a nutshell it likes to release k and na, unless its has enough ca and mg to balance itself. That's why its important to start with low ec coir. Instead of feeding a higher ec, just increase your water frequency. this replaces the stagnant water, air, and used imbalanced nutes from the last watering, with a perfect ratio and strength of nutrient, with fresh air as an added bonus. Voila, now we are treating it like hydro, and getting that fast vigorous growth we want.



Your tap water, im no expert here. I use ro water. imo, if using a good nutrient that meets basic nutrient profile for coir, then 1 to 1.2ec being enough food, I don't like the idea of adding .5ec of things that could alter the ratio of base nutrients. If you understand your tap analysis and it fits in the correct ratio for cannabis and coir then go for it. A safer approach I would do is to only use half or 1/4 tap to ro water. But the base premise is this for nutrient strength, tap/ro water ec, plus 1 to 1.2 ec base nutrients, plus whatever additives. The key is the base ec being the same strength. Im not a believer in using Epsom in coir, but if u do, keep it low strength as per suggestions.

If you choose to use additives, I wouldn't use any that mess with your base, npk/ca/mg ratios. If you want to use a bloom booster, Keep it at .2ec or lower, and reduce your base to .8 to 1ec, for lighter feeders. But as soon as your in coir, seed sprout or 5' tree, 1 to 1.2ec, all the way through works well.




I understand your going for no waist, but until you get more familiar with your medium and nutrient, id recommend some run off.


Summary,


Make sure your environment is in check per my suggestions. temp/rh/air circulation


Check that bulb. Change, clean, clean lens.


Now, the biggie, imo, water to runoff with base nutes at 1.2ec, 5.8 to 6 ph. Wait for plant to get to 30% of original driest weight. then water to run off again. After 3 to 4 water cycles (3 to 6 days), they should be dry enough to water daily. when they dry too much within 1 day, then drip. I use open end drip line, usually starting at 4 times a day, then up to 6 to 8 in flower. That all depends on how they are drying, and what size pots your using per plant size. Some strains, may not like that many waterings. I keep an eye on run off ec. don't pay attention to run off ph imo. If the ec goes .4ec above what im feeding, I up my feed frequency or my duration of feed, to compensate for the plant drying too much between waterings, causing the run off ec spike.


Get all this together and your plants should be chugging along in a week or two. gl, hope some of this helps.
Miraculous Meds is offline Quote


4 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-21-2017, 12:50 PM #36
ibreza
Newbie

Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 14
ibreza is on a distinguished road
I didn't mean to start a runoff vs no runoff argument, and it won't have any impact on your Mg def.
Give a good spray everyday until you see an improvement. Foliar is fast acting and easy to overdo so be careful. As soon as you see an improvement stop the foliar spray but continue feeding epsom salt.
Right now your plants metabolism is slow so it's no use raising your ec. If you water till runoff, I agree with Miraculous Meds, 1-1.2 sound about right. If you don't leach, 0.8-1 is ok.
And that's for the final mix ec with tap water.
Calcium is responsible for root mass development, and your tap water will help with that.
ibreza is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-23-2017, 02:15 PM #37
Snypie
Member

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 136
Snypie is on a distinguished road
Hy ibreza and Miraculous Meds,

thank you for your help so far. Especially for you ibreza, because you have 6 post and just 5 in my thread. I hope you will not angry with me.
It seems to be Miraculous Meds has right. It is overwatering and this is causing my major problem, but after 5-6 days the smaller plants are not dry enough. And the others don't healthy too.

So i made a hard decision because this makes no sense at all. I know i am impatient but i don't want to spend more time on them.

My plan is the following:
- I want to buy a fresh bag coco which is not so fine. This Plagron is like a mud (maybe i should have used perlite). I lean towards Canna Professional Plus, but i didn't see it in real life so i don't know the consistency.
- I want to change nutes too. Canna Coco A+B, because this is fact it is designed for tap water and everybody is familiar with it. So if you want to help me it will be easier for you aswell.
- I will make cuttings from each plant and if they rooted out i will toss the old ones and start over with the clones.

What do you think guys? Which coco brand is not so fine? I can access everything from Servovendi (this is a growshop in Europe and they carry Plagron, Bcuzz, Atami, H&G, Canna etc.).
And i want a suggestion about using perlite. It is a must in my situation or not?

ps: The enviroment is spot and. I always followed the VPD and the fan is light breezing the plants.
Snypie is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-23-2017, 03:56 PM #38
Miraculous Meds
Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,638
Miraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud ofMiraculous Meds has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snypie View Post
Hy ibreza and Miraculous Meds,

thank you for your help so far. Especially for you ibreza, because you have 6 post and just 5 in my thread. I hope you will not angry with me.
It seems to be Miraculous Meds has right. It is overwatering and this is causing my major problem, but after 5-6 days the smaller plants are not dry enough. And the others don't healthy too.

So i made a hard decision because this makes no sense at all. I know i am impatient but i don't want to spend more time on them.

My plan is the following:
- I want to buy a fresh bag coco which is not so fine. This Plagron is like a mud (maybe i should have used perlite). I lean towards Canna Professional Plus, but i didn't see it in real life so i don't know the consistency.
- I want to change nutes too. Canna Coco A+B, because this is fact it is designed for tap water and everybody is familiar with it. So if you want to help me it will be easier for you aswell.
- I will make cuttings from each plant and if they rooted out i will toss the old ones and start over with the clones.

What do you think guys? Which coco brand is not so fine? I can access everything from Servovendi (this is a growshop in Europe and they carry Plagron, Bcuzz, Atami, H&G, Canna etc.).
And i want a suggestion about using perlite. It is a must in my situation or not?

ps: The enviroment is spot and. I always followed the VPD and the fan is light breezing the plants.

The muddy consistency is what I was referring to when I said all coco is not made equally. That is one exact cause of overwatering for some people. I have certainly got batches of coir like that, and didn't know better at the time and did the same thing as you with my plants. One time I bought a large compressed brick, and it had a few course grades of coir in a single block. That would have been fine, if 50% weren't pure muddy sludge material.


I think your new plan is fine. it will give you a little time and more experience trying to get the old plants to bounce back, while your moving on with new cuts. Only downfall is the new cuts might need a little tlc, since they came from unhealthy parents.


Canna will be a fine choice for nutrients too. If you want a set it and forget approach, h3ads gh 6/9 is super easy, and in ro water, eliminates the need for ph'ing, checking nutrient strength, wondering if you have enough of any nutrient in the right concentration. You basically just have to get the environment right, and water frequency. Again, im sure canna is fine, I just haven't used it, and don't know if the base by itself has everything you need, but id guess it does. But im sure there program will tell you that you need 8 more bottles of crap, that you usually don't need. Ive used the gh line, ionic, h n g, and several others, all were fine with just the base at 1.2ec.


brands of coir; I am using char coir currently, but have used botanicare, and several others in the past. Probably any big name should have well flushed, and charged coir. But do your homework and check the ec on new bags each time so you don't get a surprise. Of the list you wrote, id go with canna, but again, they all might be fine.


Ive been back and forth on the perlite issue. No real big advantages with it imo. Maybe a slightly less chance of root blockage on large pots, but I haven't experienced it in the 5 gallon size or smaller. Im leaning towards straight coir these days. It holds more moisture, and that is a benefit in indoor grows, where your main problem, once your dialed in, will be if they dry out too much on you. I used perlite mixes for the longest time thinking they would make me be able to water more often, giving faster results, but what I experienced more was nutrient spikes, and ph drop in the medium, because of a too rapid drying out period between the next water cycle. In the end, straight coir offers a safer buffer of more medium to keep evenly moist. You will be ok either way you choose, just with perlite, you will have to water more.


Remember on the current plants, don't let them dry completely before watering. This is the hardest part to explain to a new grower, because you don't have a feel for it yet. Id suggest taking an equal size pot, that the plants are in, and filling with dry coir. then filling another equal size pot with coir, and completely saturating it. Now use those as your weight markers when you go to check for watering every day. You want about 1/3 heavier than total dry weight. If you water when they are down to that 1/2 to 1/3 moisture level, they will start to bounce back. Water them when they are still too wet, and they drown. Wait to water till they dry completely, and its twice as bad as overwatering. You will get multiple def symptoms from the cec imbalance, and then k tox, which then increases def symptoms. Its a very nasty cycle. Pick them pots up and feel the weight. You will become a pro in no time at it. Patience though, those plants wont be stellar in a week, they will just be popping some new healthy root mass, and starting to be ready for daily watering, where you will start to see new healthy foliage. the old foliage wont heel, so don't fret it.
Miraculous Meds is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-23-2017, 04:35 PM #39
Snypie
Member

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 136
Snypie is on a distinguished road
OK, thank you again.
I made the EC test from the bag. It was 20-30 ppm. So the Plagron is fine. And today i read-read-read There is no big difference in coir brands.
I see my major problem is watering and i don't know my nutes is made for RO or tap. But i have GH micro (for soft water)-grow-bloom. I read the h3ads thread formerly. I skipped it because there was a debate about different nutes was issued in Europe and in USA. I have the GHE (Genereal Hyroponics Europe) version. What do you think about it?
So maybe i will try the 6/9 (micro/bloom) and will make my homework and measure the dry pot and the saturated pot.
Snypie is offline Quote


Old 10-23-2017, 07:01 PM #40
PoweredByLove
Most Loved

PoweredByLove's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Throwin Bricks...Hittin Bitches...
Posts: 1,213
PoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of lightPoweredByLove is a glorious beacon of light
do you have any pics of what they look like now?
__________________
Current Diary
PoweredByLove is offline Quote


Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:55 PM.


Click to buy Cannabis Seeds at Fast Buds


This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.