What's new
  • Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Question regarding using and chelating gypsum

ButterflyEffect

ButterflyEffect

Well-known member
I'm about to start using gypsum to load up on Ca from transition through stretch. I also foliar during this time with Growmore CalMag and I'll be using it for a drench very soon, as well.

I've read that chelating it with amino acids dramatically increases the bioavailability. With that in mind, I have 2 questions.

First, can I use Mr Fulvic for said aminos? If so at what rate? I'm already using this fulvic at every feeding @ 1ml/G.

Second, how much gypsum would I use and what would be my target ppm?

Keeping in mind my goal, I don't want to run the risk of bumping Mg & K by introducing too much Ca. I want to get this right.

Thanks all.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

Active member
Veteran
Even Diamond K solution grade gypsum is suspended, not dissolved. Just make sure you fully agitate it before drench.



It's great you found Growmore flowering cal-mag. Some folks here are using water soluble calcium a la KNF or simply using calcium acetate to bump up their calcium levels.



And yes, Mr. Fulvic chelates all nutrients.
 
ButterflyEffect

ButterflyEffect

Well-known member
BillFarthing said:
Even Diamond K solution grade gypsum is suspended, not dissolved. Just make sure you fully agitate it before drench.



It's great you found Growmore flowering cal-mag. Some folks here are using water soluble calcium a la KNF or simply using calcium acetate to bump up their calcium levels.



And yes, Mr. Fulvic chelates all nutrients.
Click to expand...

I can't recall where I read the tip about using gypsum. Maybe Slownickel or Jidoka. What are the pros and cons of the acetate form? The solubility being the obvious pro. I figured I already have the gypsum on the way, so I'd like to utilize it.

Also really excited to see how the mr fulvic is gonna work out. I'm looking at the wood vinegar now, as well.

Man, I don't know what I would've done without your advice!! Thanks again so much!
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

Active member
Veteran
ButterflyEffect said:
I can't recall where I read the tip about using gypsum. Maybe Slownickel or Jidoka. What are the pros and cons of the acetate form? The solubility being the obvious pro. I figured I already have the gypsum on the way, so I'd like to utilize it.

Also really excited to see how the mr fulvic is gonna work out. I'm looking at the wood vinegar now, as well.

Man, I don't know what I would've done without your advice!! Thanks again so much!
Click to expand...


Slownickel is a really smart agronomist. Calcium acetate is another form that is totally soluble and works as a drench and foliar. Gypsum is good for medium to long-term use as a drench.



Mr. Fulvic/Wood vinegar is a killer beneficial foliar and IPM. You get fulvic and aminos in Mr. Fulvic, both have different organic acids and the wood vinegar kills bugs and mold. It's all I've been using.
 
ButterflyEffect

ButterflyEffect

Well-known member
BillFarthing said:
Slownickel is a really smart agronomist. Calcium acetate is another form that is totally soluble and works as a drench and foliar. Gypsum is good for medium to long-term use as a drench.



Mr. Fulvic/Wood vinegar is a killer beneficial foliar and IPM. You get fulvic and aminos in Mr. Fulvic, both have different organic acids and the wood vinegar kills bugs and mold. It's all I've been using.
Click to expand...

I'll see how the gypsum works since my goal is to ramp up the Ca over time. I'll revisit it in a few cycles.

I'm very much looking forward to the benefits of aminos and organic acids. Maybe I can stop using the floramite and forbid now. That would be awesome. I don't use very much, I think 2-3 drops each per quart and in Veg only, but still nasty stuff nonetheless.

I was talking to Slow via PM. He's a genius! He gave me the go-ahead to call him. I'm very security-minded, so I'm a bit leery. I'm researching the best way to go about it as he's a wealth of knowledge and he's freely offering it.

Thanks again as always BF!
 
TdotGonG

TdotGonG

Member
ButterflyEffect said:
I can't recall where I read the tip about using gypsum. Maybe Slownickel or Jidoka. What are the pros and cons of the acetate form? The solubility being the obvious pro. I figured I already have the gypsum on the way, so I'd like to utilize it.

Also really excited to see how the mr fulvic is gonna work out. I'm looking at the wood vinegar now, as well.

Man, I don't know what I would've done without your advice!! Thanks again so much!
Click to expand...




Be careful of you're mixing ratio for the acetate. Leaves a white powdered dust on the surface of the plant.
 
S

slownickel

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The response to gypsum is about 2 to 3 days. A good, fine grade like Diamond K, is upwards of 3+grams water soluble (in solution). Yes, there are also solids in suspension. Try an experiment. Apply gypsum in one spot, light snow like application, no blanket. Apply water gently. Come back in 3 days and wash the soil away from the roots there and tell us all what you see. Calcium concentrations INITIATE root growth.

Try it. Hell, I got guys that inject 2 gr/gal in their systems with the right sprinkler heads.

On the flip side, take some Ca Carbonate and throw a bunch in water. Stir the hell out of it. Start testing the pH. Some of that Ca does become available, not much, but is a function of grind. let it settle, apply what is in suspension. Use a gallon. Mark the plants.

The micronized Calcium carbonate is amazing.

Then there is one of my favorites, powdered milk.

Thanks for the Kuddos.
 
ButterflyEffect

ButterflyEffect

Well-known member
slownickel said:
The response to gypsum is about 2 to 3 days. A good, fine grade like Diamond K, is upwards of 3+grams water soluble (in solution). Yes, there are also solids in suspension. Try an experiment. Apply gypsum in one spot, light snow like application, no blanket. Apply water gently. Come back in 3 days and wash the soil away from the roots there and tell us all what you see. Calcium concentrations INITIATE root growth.

Try it. Hell, I got guys that inject 2 gr/gal in their systems with the right sprinkler heads.

On the flip side, take some Ca Carbonate and throw a bunch in water. Stir the hell out of it. Start testing the pH. Some of that Ca does become available, not much, but is a function of grind. let it settle, apply what is in suspension. Use a gallon. Mark the plants.

The micronized Calcium carbonate is amazing.

Then there is one of my favorites, powdered milk.

Thanks for the Kuddos.
Click to expand...

I should get the gypsum in a few days. Will that experiment work with my media? I'm running 4:1 perlite/vermi hempys, btw.

Being that I have the growmore calmag, the biomin liquid and gypsum, would it benefit me to grab the acetate or the powdered carbonate? It appears that the biomin is an amino chelated carbonate, as well. So many choices. Might be a good time over the winter to learn a bit of background science.

Milk, huh? Definitely time to do some learning!

I'll be clear here, The difference to the cycle that's next on deck is remarkable. The internodal distance isn't as tight as I got it under the T5 but the stalk thickness, especially at the tops, is nothing short of remarkable. This issue was what lead me down this path to calcium. Plants would cycle from the T5 horizontal to the CMH vertical. I get them acclimated to not only a HID but the new orientation.

So for all of this, yeah kuddos would be the least I could offer! For as long as I can recall I've wanted to be a serious grower with real understanding to back it up, and I finally believe it's within reach. My humble thanks sir!
 
TdotGonG

TdotGonG

Member
slownickel said:
The response to gypsum is about 2 to 3 days. A good, fine grade like Diamond K, is upwards of 3+grams water soluble (in solution). Yes, there are also solids in suspension. Try an experiment. Apply gypsum in one spot, light snow like application, no blanket. Apply water gently. Come back in 3 days and wash the soil away from the roots there and tell us all what you see. Calcium concentrations INITIATE root growth.

Try it. Hell, I got guys that inject 2 gr/gal in their systems with the right sprinkler heads.

On the flip side, take some Ca Carbonate and throw a bunch in water. Stir the hell out of it. Start testing the pH. Some of that Ca does become available, not much, but is a function of grind. let it settle, apply what is in suspension. Use a gallon. Mark the plants.

The micronized Calcium carbonate is amazing.

Then there is one of my favorites, powdered milk.

Thanks for the Kuddos.
Click to expand...


This is what I needed to read today. yes. Ty
 
A

ADHDGrower

Member
Gypsum is great but also lasts a long time and also releases Ca and S immediatly. When reamending used Medium with Gypsum, the Gypsum you applied last time isnt gone at all.

This can lead to Molybden Deficiency cause of too much S. Mo Deficiency can look alot like N Defiency which can lead to false Identification of the Defiency.

Learned the hard way^^
 
ButterflyEffect

ButterflyEffect

Well-known member
ADHDGrower said:
Gypsum is great but also lasts a long time and also releases Ca and S immediatly. When reamending used Medium with Gypsum, the Gypsum you applied last time isnt gone at all.

This can lead to Molybden Deficiency cause of too much S. Mo Deficiency can look alot like N Defiency which can lead to false Identification of the Defiency.

Learned the hard way^^
Click to expand...

That's a good point. I'm in hempys with perlite and vermiculite and I don't reuse anything. More expensive but way simpler.

Love that username, btw. I totally identify!
 
S

slownickel

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
ADHDGrower said:
Gypsum is great but also lasts a long time and also releases Ca and S immediatly. When reamending used Medium with Gypsum, the Gypsum you applied last time isnt gone at all.

This can lead to Molybden Deficiency cause of too much S. Mo Deficiency can look alot like N Defiency which can lead to false Identification of the Defiency.

Learned the hard way^^
Click to expand...

If you don't apply Mo, Ni, Co, Cu and B, you can't get there from here.

Applying Ca is a big responsibility, you will be lifting a huge bottle neck, be prepared for the new ones you never saw before.

Calcium is job 1. Plenty more to do after Ca!

I do tend to disagree with you. Ca falls quickly if you only use gypsum in a light mix. Not sure where that came from.

One can't rely on Gypsum as the only Ca source.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

Active member
Veteran
Since @slownickel likes Nectar for the Gods ratios, I copied their line using salts.



1-gallon Medusa's Magic Part A:
Calcium Nitrate 429
Magnesium Nitrate 152


1-gallon Medusa's Magic Part B:
Potassium Sulfate 122
Ammonium Monobasic Phosphate 287
Potassium Monobasic Phosphate 204
Chelated Micros 16


That gives the following results: (Yes, the NH4+ is that high on the label)
N (NO3-) 138.435, N (NH4+) 70, K 200, P 218.2, Mg 25.023, Ca 143.607, S 39.645, Fe 2, Zn 0.114, B 0.371, Cu 0.029, Mo 0.017, Mn 0.571


1-gallon Zeus Juice replacement:
400 g Leonardite powder
55 g kelp extract


Demeter's Destiny replacement:
For a liquid cal phos replacement, try 1g cal phos powder/gallon final concentration

Herculean Harvest replacement:

For a liquid calcium replacement, try Liquid Bone Meal
 
Last edited:
S

slownickel

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Whooaaa!

Not a big fan, expensive, unbalanced.

Most definitely an easy fix though as they have a liquid bone meal and their line is based on Calcium.
 
ButterflyEffect

ButterflyEffect

Well-known member
How would you all consider the Biomin liquid calcium? I have about a half gallon left so if it's decent, I'd like to at least finish it. I use it at 60ppm right now. That bonemeal looks like a promising replacement for the Safers. Would the additional P be an issue of concern? If I decided to use that as my primary Ca additive(My calnit being the primary of course) would I want to back down on the MKP? It would be at that week 4-6 range so maybe something to think about.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top