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Bitcoin Talk

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
So what is the intrinsic value a "bitcoin"? Zero...right?

I think it's $1000 as that is how much energy it takes to make one? Depending on your kwh cost. Anybody know the current cost to produce 1 coin?

Energy used is rewarded right. So there is a minimum?
 
I think it's $1000 as that is how much energy it takes to make one? Depending on your kwh cost. Anybody know the current cost to produce 1 coin?

Energy used is rewarded right. So there is a minimum?

i heard its more like 2k(avg) to mine a block, but the difficulty fluctuates and as such so does the cost of mining, and as you mentioned power costs come into play.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Hmmm scared and new. Just spent 3 hours trying to understand this. Tried to get a wallet and it demands bank details. Then realised it would only hold bitcoins anyway. I want litecoins and maybe a few quantum coins. It seems I can't store those. Can't transfer money into wallets from PayPal. Or use PayPal to buy crypto currency. Lots of exchanges, some have higher fees for trading. Some trade to USD and others you can pair trade to other currencies.
We still don't have a decent how to on the subject here. Can we expand to include currencies with potential still and get an idiots guide going?
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Around 20 years ago, companies were losing millions of dollars each year (burning through cash like it was free) and investors were bidding up stock prices to over $100 a share.

To that I sing, "And so castles made of sand fall in the sea, eventually..."

Within a days of each other, those stocks fell like a brick and found themselves trading under a buck. Soon thereafter, stocks that traded on the Big Board were delisted and were then listed on the "Pink Sheets" (aka penny stocks).

To that I sing, "And so castles made of sand melts into the sea, eventually..."

If you were selling your business, the selling price would be a multiple of the profits. $100k profitable company might sell for 6-15 times earnings ($600k-1.5 million). Those companies that did have profits, their stock sold for 100-200 times earhings ($100k profit = $10-20 million)

To that I sing, "And so castles made of sand slips into the sea, eventually..."

BTW, the $1000 value for the bitcoin (cost of energy) was consumed in creating the bitcoin.

Look at it this way: If I spent $1000 to convert an ounce of gold (which I owned) into a necklace (think Mr. T), then my intrinsic value would NOT be $1000 (jeweler costs)...instead, intrinsic value would the value of necklace "melted down" (closer to the price of gold--not what it cost or what I spent). Think of it as "scrap value".

So if Bitcoin value drops to say 10 cents...what is the intrinsic value? Zero I say. Same if Bitcoin trades at $100k. Scrap value to the answer of an equation is zero (mining Bitcoins)...at least where I come from.
 
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MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
& here I am...

Watching the $200 I put in a bit over a year ago float about $5500 or so.

Long as I come out ahead I'm all good.
I thought I lost that change. Hehe
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Hmmm scared and new. Just spent 3 hours trying to understand this. Tried to get a wallet and it demands bank details. Then realised it would only hold bitcoins anyway. I want litecoins and maybe a few quantum coins. It seems I can't store those. Can't transfer money into wallets from PayPal. Or use PayPal to buy crypto currency. Lots of exchanges, some have higher fees for trading. Some trade to USD and others you can pair trade to other currencies.
We still don't have a decent how to on the subject here. Can we expand to include currencies with potential still and get an idiots guide going?
Here's a site I just came across with basic information on a lot of coins, along with some instructions on how to keep them. https://getcrypto.info/

My main focus happens to be on coins which pay a dividend and are not connected with Bitcoin. My favorite coins are those connected with services which can/are/will pay a dividend. In a way, it's like buying a stock certificate which is actively being used instead of sitting in your desk drawer or vault. Blockchain networks which provide services which are/will be continuously paid for while the services are relevant.

There are plenty of scam coins and, as I stated earlier, you really need to know how to safeguard your computer. I highly recommend storing as many coins offline as possible. Either a paper wallet or a hardware wallet (with backups). Virus/malware is going to get intense as the nefarious element seeks to steal coins from the non-computer literate.
 

Chappi

Active member
Bitcoin futures live today on the CBOE. Dec 18 is when CME group goes live. This will get very interesting.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Seems to be a 20% spread on buy sell at least at localbitcoin. Makes trading very difficult
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
I give up. Its all far too sketchy. Thought buying crypto currency would be like trading stocks or other currencies, but this is all far more like meeting a guy in a pub car park and paying him only to hope his partner is going to turn up with your goods in a little while. Oh and giving him your passport and bank account details and cash card with pin, to hold onto so he knows who you are; in case you're a crook.
 
I give up. Its all far too sketchy. Thought buying crypto currency would be like trading stocks or other currencies, but this is all far more like meeting a guy in a pub car park and paying him only to hope his partner is going to turn up with your goods in a little while. Oh and giving him your passport and bank account details and cash card with pin, to hold onto so he knows who you are; in case you're a crook.

is there a reason you dont want to use coinbase? if you want it to be like buying stocks, you need to go to an exchange, like coinbase. if you want it to be like buying something from your neighbor out of their garage, go on local bitcoins
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
In order to go to an exchange you first need a wallet with them in. In order to get a wallet you have to give enough details to some company that isn't regulated for them to not only empty your bank account at will but also sell your identity. Localbitcoins needs your wallet already set up and has a 20% spread. Then there are various market stalls to try and trade on but each type of crypto has its own list of exchanges, and each type of currency needs its own type of wallet. All seem to be linked to bitcoin. It isn't an instant transaction meaning you have no way of predicting the price you'll get. With a 20% spread on buying and selling, there has to be massive fluctuations just to break even. And then many want 0.5% to withdraw your money from your wallet which I'm assuming holds cash as well as 1 type of crypto. To trade each type you have to first buy bitcoin then do it all again to transfer to another type. Then you can't log into your wallet from multiple devices but only the one holding your wallet. Of which you need many.
Its a flaming joke and trillions are piling into it.
 
use. COINBASE. the price the moment you click buy is locked in, you have to wait a while for the coins to hit your wallet (because cryptos inherently cant have chargebacks applied so they need to use extra security to avoid fraud). n no wallets dont hold cash lol just the coin theyre designed to hold. its not a 'flaming joke', its just technologically based. i get it can be confusing. i suggest picking btc or eth, and dont bother with the others. stop trying to deal with local bitcoins. no one uses that. use. coinbase. like everyone does. and of course you cant log into your wallet from multiple devices what kind of security would that be? its like...a wallet. not an 'account'. you either have it on you to take money out and use, or you dont. thats why they call it a wallet.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
In order to go to an exchange you first need a wallet with them in. In order to get a wallet you have to give enough details to some company that isn't regulated for them to not only empty your bank account at will but also sell your identity. Localbitcoins needs your wallet already set up and has a 20% spread. Then there are various market stalls to try and trade on but each type of crypto has its own list of exchanges, and each type of currency needs its own type of wallet. All seem to be linked to bitcoin. It isn't an instant transaction meaning you have no way of predicting the price you'll get. With a 20% spread on buying and selling, there has to be massive fluctuations just to break even. And then many want 0.5% to withdraw your money from your wallet which I'm assuming holds cash as well as 1 type of crypto. To trade each type you have to first buy bitcoin then do it all again to transfer to another type. Then you can't log into your wallet from multiple devices but only the one holding your wallet. Of which you need many.
Its a flaming joke and trillions are piling into it.
It takes knowledge of technology to take advantage of this type of investment. If you have low skills with computers (not a bad thing by any measure), stick with gold and other physical assets. And buy a gun. :tiphat:
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Yeah that's my objection, I'm just to dumb to get it lol. Genius IQ accountant with a history of programming software but its too hard for me.

Truth is this is all a giant scam based around a game of financial chicken. I started the day knowing nothing at all about it, and assumed there was some legitimacy to it all. That was my mistake.

This is a bunch of guys selling virtual currency to people for real currency through their own systems. Its like buying gold in an online fantasy game and thinking its worth something.
The place to invest is the markets, the place to gamble is an online casino.

For those wanting to play chicken with virtual money, I just hope you aren't the bravest in the market. The chickens who run first will take the value and those who don't will be left with nothing but virtual assets in a real world.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
For someone who doesn't understand it, you sure are sure about what it is. lol

For the rest of you, read some of the descriptions of the coins on the page I linked. You're looking for the ones which fund the most valuable services.

EOS is shaping up to be significantly faster and more capable than Ethereum, the first tests are going extremely well. Once it's finished testing it will be launched as it's own network. (right now it's being tested *on* the Ethereum network, a temporary test bed) Want gambling profits? The DICE token spreads profits from the ethereum dice gambling game. Do you see gambling dying out any time soon? Where's the vaporware in sharing percentages of the house take?

Scoff if you want, call it a fantasy if you like, there are plenty of true investment opportunities rising. Ones with intrinsic value which pay repeatedly. Then there are the buy and hold, sell your profit and it's gone coins... like Bitcoin and others.

What's in YOUR wallet? lol
 

englishrick

Plumber/Builder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I have made a radical amount of money from bitcoin and crypto now..


here is my 2 satoshis...

consider the utility..for people in country's that have financial issues..people can use bitcoin and crypto to trade outside of state issued fiat currency..its a haven from hyper inflation (atm)..its fungible..its non perishable..highly mobile.

I believe it's the new stock asset. stock exchanges will littraly run autonomously with crypto assets as the driving force..

disruptive tech this most certainly is..atm only 2 % of the world has adopted digital fungible assets..

the futures markets have already started and we have seen hence returns this week already. here's to another week

top tips

litecoin.. undervalued. just took 4th on market cap..probbly going to be 1/4 worth of btx pretty soon.

0x..will be infrastructure for ethereum.
stellar lumens..
iota

etc

have fun people

an please don't think it's too hard..dont try to be annon just jump in..buy 50 quid worth..wait and see what you want to do with your next spare 50..have a look at your Bitcoin wallet first before you spend

this is the world's savings pot..you could look at it as your bank but without staff and with all the compound interest you technically deserved for all them years gone buy .
 

englishrick

Plumber/Builder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
love Eos..

crypto kitties is killing eth..vitalik must be crying like kermit the frog since them crypto kitties crashed his unstopable code..

I really like quantum too...decentralised apps are the next rival to Google and Apple apps
 

Bmac1

Well-known member
Veteran
On coinbase its just bitcoin, etherium and litecoin. Where can one get the others mentioned englishrick and is it similar to coinbase in the sense that you can pay via card etc?
 

Guy Brush

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
How fast is coinbase with transactions? I know there's a local bitcoin market and there are two options for buying/selling. One is with bank transfer and it takes 2-3, sometimes more, days. The other is a quick option but only works with a certain bank, where the client needs to have an account with the same bank too. This works instantly and you can react on price fluctuations very quickly. The first option (bank transfer) is a joke if prices change quickly.
 
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