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Dutch pilot experiment: LEGALLY growing organic female hemp flowers high in CBD

K

karl.uk

Member
Dutch,
It seems the best way of extraction is the Supercritical C02 route .......
http://www.endoca.com/ They are in your neck of the woods, and thats how they are doing it..
Not the cheapest route €, but seems the way to go.
Karl...
 
D

DutchHempCBD

Member
Most likely reason why most CBD oils are EXPENSIVE!

Most likely reason why most CBD oils are EXPENSIVE!

Indeed, a good chunck of the hemp CBD-oils on the market are supercritical CO2 extractions. That might be one of the reasons why 500 mg of CBD costs anywhere from 50 to 200 dollar. In some cases CBD only starts to be effective around these dose ranges. That's not really a feasible medical cost for most people.

Besides that I just found out that a lot of the CBD-oils on the market are made out of seeds, stems & stalks of the hemp plant. From what I understand it has to do with some legal issue that they are not allowed to process the flowers or leaves. I think (not sure) this only applies to products that are also marketed to the US. Do any of you know more about this?


SEEDS, STEMS AND STALKS
Dixie Botanicals. Dixie Botanicals is a hemp oil wellness line of products using both the stem and stalk of the Hemp plant. It represents a significant capital investment of millions of dollars to bring these products to the Continental U.S. no extraction technique mentioned

HempMedsPX. For all their products ''Real Scientific Hemp Oil, Cibdex'' Check under ingredients. no extraction technique mentioned

Bluebird Botanicals. Our CBD oil extract is a full spectrum CO2 oil extraction of stalks and stems from a Hemp strain of Cannabis sativa grown in the U.K., legally imported through FDA tariff codes. supercritical CO2 extractions

Canebe. Our organic farms are localized in Czech Republic, France and Spain supercritical CO2 extractions

Gevitta spray. no extraction technique mentioned

Tasty hemp oil. no extraction technique mentioned


Most likely FROM seeds, stems and stalks, just flowers and leaves

Elixinol. all of our Hemp is organically grown and processed in choice locations of Northern Europe before being sent directly to USA and other approved countries. supercritical CO2 extractions

Hempotion. no extraction technique mentioned

AED CBD oil. Grown on farms in Europe. no extraction technique mentioned


Most likely NOT from seeds, stems and stalks
Endoca. EU based.
supercritical CO2 extractions

HANF-ZEIT EU based (Germany). no extraction technique mentioned

CannaPower
 Netherlands based no extraction technique mentioned

MediWiet Made from hemp from EU.
supercritical CO2 extractions
 
D

DutchHempCBD

Member
Day 77

Day 77

Day 77 - trichomes in abundance. Obviously not so much as drug-type cannabis... but still enough for a nice extract. We'll be doing a trial harvest tomorrow. Drying in dry boxes (forced outside air). Stripping after drying. Not settled on extraction technique yet. We'll be doing some test with different extraction techniques.



Thule said:
Are they really selling cbd extracts over the net? Is that legal somewhere?
Click to expand...
Yep, in a lot of states (but not so much in the USA) growing and processing hemp is legal. In some cases their are some limitations to what is allowed in processing the hemp. Remember, in EU the legal limit of THC content is max 0,2% for industrial hemp.
 
K

karl.uk

Member
@Dutch....
Very nice pictures, you can see clearly all the trichomes.
Does the hemp smell of cannabis, or is there no smell to it ?
Thanks
Karl...
 
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
DutchHempCBD,
Thanks for the visit, I had a great time.
Beautiful plants in really good shape for outdoors in holland, really no mold or damage yet, and with luck it will stay that way.
For the folks that insist that FINOLA is 100% autoflower I would like to point out that FINOLA was not like true Autoflower varieties and continuing to make new flowers, it is maturation determinate and is not making any more flowers at all, zero. That was Aug 4. But I have grown FINOLA many times under natural light at different times in Holland it was the same, it finished and was determinate, it did not keep making flowers.
Other autoflowers I have grown will continue to make flowers regardless of photoperiod as long as they did not get to cold which did stop new flower production, even if fully seeded plants continued to make new flowers on the tips until they are harvested. The Ruderalis AF's and AF Hybrids I have grown do first veg then go into flowering, but they do not frost at the end of flowering as they do not really end flowering, they want to keep flowering.
FINOLA while not as frosted as a good drug variety does have quite a bit of resin on the flowers.
Of course CBD resin is quite different then THC resin, for example if you try to hand rub FINOLA to collect finger hash it is frustrating no resin really sticks to the hand like with THC varieties, I tried with DHC and no luck....
Maybe FINOLA is not photoperiod determinate to begin flowering but is more so when it does end flowering? Not sure....
To me it smelled like FINOLA or very hempy, it is not as strong or pleasant as most drug Cannabis smells, it can be pleasant to some.
-SamS
 
Last edited:
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
offthehook said:
Sinsimilla Finola females excl, being grown on my yard at lat 65 Finland.

The tallest females here are now standing beyond 2 mtr tall.

To remove the males is indeed a painstaking process that'll take about one month all together, but it was significantly more easy to do on the other side of the plot where the plants have been sown in more thinly.

There is always a risk that some retarded seeds will still pop up, and has it got my up most priority to keep soil surface free from obscuring weeds for inspection.

(In the upper right corner of the first pic, and the third and last pic as well, there's also 'broad bean' to notice. We had a rat infestation this year that killed off many of the beans, but luckily they did not seem to care about the hemp at all. The beans are not much to see on the pictures in here, but on places where rats did not bother digging em up, the hemp seems taking a huge advantage of their presence)

View Image

View Image

View Image

View Image





This picture was made on 11-7 and it'll show off the side of the plot that was being sown in more thinly >
View Image
Click to expand...

offthehook,
I hope you have just the bud of a resinous plant tested for the CBD level maybe a bud from a plant with little resin also to see the difference? If you do not have plans to have it tested maybe keep a small sample of the two plants until you can have it tested for CBD levels, then we can compare the CBD % to the seeded FINOLA here, keep tract of what day harvested with the samples day 90, day 91 whatever.
-SamS
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Sam_Skunkman said:
...
For the folks that insist that FINOLA is 100% autoflower I would like to point out that FINOLA was not like true Autoflower varieties and continuing to make new flowers, it is maturation determinate and is not making any more flowers at all, zero. That was Aug 4. But I have grown FINOLA many times under natural light at different times in Holland it was the same, it finished and was determinate, it did not keep making flowers.
Other autoflowers I have grown will continue to make flowers regardless of photoperiod as long as they did not get to cold which did stop new flower production, even if fully seeded plants continued to make new flowers on the tips until they are harvested. The Ruderalis AF's and AF Hybrids I have grown do first veg then go into flowering, but they do not frost at the end of flowering as they do not really end flowering, they want to keep flowering.
...
-SamS
Click to expand...
Hi Sam,
Thanks for the insights! I've never really understood that part with autoflowering varieties.
Most of my Finolas stopped flowering quite soon no matter if seeded or not, except two plants and indeed, they were less resinous than the others. And now I know why!

Photoperiod should theoretically induce flowering not finish it... it's supposed to be no more than a ON signal and not an OFF one too. But truth be told, I've seen nothing about the off signal in scientific literature; either it doesn't exist or it's been simply neglected or forgotten (happens too often).
 
D

DutchHempCBD

Member
oldchuck said:
Thank you, Sam.

Dutch, have you sent any off for testing yet?
Click to expand...

No I haven't yet. Also harvest has been postponed a bit due to rain...rain.... rain.

@offthehook and others. Note that when taking samples with the specific goal of finding the average for your crops, take a big enough sample size (50-200 plants ?!). Check out this very interesting research document on ''Variations of Δ9-THC content in single plants of hemp varieties''.

http://www.ukcia.org/research/VariationOfTHCContent.pdf

@SamS. Thanks for your visit and giving me some valuable pointers on how to best approach this project.

The smell of the Finola plant is indeed quite hempy.
 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
Sam_Skunkman said:
DutchHempCBD,
Thanks for the visit, I had a great time.
Beautiful plants in really good shape for outdoors in holland, really no mold or damage yet, and with luck it will stay that way.
For the folks that insist that FINOLA is 100% autoflower I would like to point out that FINOLA was not like true Autoflower varieties and continuing to make new flowers, it is maturation determinate and is not making any more flowers at all, zero. That was Aug 4. But I have grown FINOLA many times under natural light at different times in Holland it was the same, it finished and was determinate, it did not keep making flowers.
Other autoflowers I have grown will continue to make flowers regardless of photoperiod as long as they did not get to cold which did stop new flower production, even if fully seeded plants continued to make new flowers on the tips until they are harvested. The Ruderalis AF's and AF Hybrids I have grown do first veg then go into flowering, but they do not frost at the end of flowering as they do not really end flowering, they want to keep flowering.
FINOLA while not as frosted as a good drug variety does have quite a bit of resin on the flowers.
Of course CBD resin is quite different then THC resin, for example if you try to hand rub FINOLA to collect finger hash it is frustrating no resin really sticks to the hand like with THC varieties, I tried with DHC and no luck....
Maybe FINOLA is not photoperiod determinate to begin flowering but is more so when it does end flowering? Not sure....
To me it smelled like FINOLA or very hempy, it is not as strong or pleasant as most drug Cannabis smells, it can be pleasant to some.
-SamS
Click to expand...

My experience with indoor pre-grown Finola that was later put outdoors under 24/0 light regime showed that they will continue to make new white pistills until cold gets them.

So if they were indoors for 2 months under 24/0, showed female flowers at between 5 and 7 weeks, then be put outdoors at the 15th of May, they would continue to make white female pistils until chopping date sept 15th or first frost. Even when partly or fully seeded.
 
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
offthehook said:
My experience with indoor pre-grown Finola that was later put outdoors under 24/0 light regime showed that they will continue to make new white pistills until cold gets them.

So if they were indoors for 2 months under 24/0, showed female flowers at between 5 and 7 weeks, then be put outdoors at the 15th of May, they would continue to make white female pistils until chopping date sept 15th or first frost. Even when partly or fully seeded.
Click to expand...

Why the difference? Why did Dutch's Finola all stop making flowers at the longest time of the year? And yours keep making flowers? I do not get the difference. You did have lights under 24 hours for 2 months indoors under lights but if Finola is AutoFlower why any effect from the photoperiod of 24 hours for two months? Maybe if the plants were used to the 24 hours then wouldn't the reduction of hours outside cause the plants to have a relative photoperiod response and flower? I do not know but am trying to understand.
I have seen plants that kepy under 18 hours of light will flower at 13 hours of light, and if under 24 hours will flower at 14-15 hours they are more relative response flowering then absolute photpoeriod response flowering found in most varieties.
-SamS
 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
I can't help you find the answers Sam. All I gave you was an observation being made, and these observations are now being duplicated large scale as we speak, though only this time without the pre-grow factor like I did other years before as well.

Just understand that I am here in Northern Finland where the sun will almost shine around the clock at june 24th, and way before and beyond it 'll be as bright as daylight in the middle of the night.

Currently, sun will set at 22:00 and rise at 4:45, so only almost 7 hours of a kind of 'dark' that is not realy dark. I can still walk our dogs in the forest at night and without a need for a torch. A hare far away running over a field can still be seen.

Apparently they are forced to shoot into flower in disregard of day length and due to their auto genes stimulating their flowering hormones, but therefore does a lack of shortening day length hours beyond a certain number of true dark hours give them the impulse to continue flowering. (Just like all photo sensitive early's would do at the latter stage at our lattitude)

In that sense they would be true 'allthough late flowering' auto's for the 'shoot into flowering' factor, but still remain photo sensitve for the 'finnishing up part' of the blooming factor.

It is what it is, and if they were not like that then they would have had no chance to get this big as they do in here and produce lots of seed for the Finola company I suppose.

picture.php


picture.php



https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=55674


 
D

DutchHempCBD

Member
Day 82

Day 82

Day 82 - We harvested 10% of our field by tractor. It took as a couple of runs before we found the ideal tractor speed and cutting speed. We wanted the plants to fall over in one direction to speed up the hand harvest. We selected only female plants. The males where mere dry & weak leafless stalks. The plants were lightly packed in the drying box in random order. We ended up filling two drying boxes. Back at the farm connected the boxes to the drying machine which blows unheated outdoor air through the plants. This should prevent mould and plant decay.

If this drying method works and the trichomes come out largely un-smooched we'll harvest the rest of the field when as soon as we get more dry weather.

 
D

DutchHempCBD

Member
Day 86

Day 86

DAY 86 - We managed to harvest the remaining 90% in one day. In total we filled 15 huge boxes with female hemp plants. The plants are now air drying.

Next step.... trial extractions to determine the best extraction technique!

 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
DutchHempCBD said:
AWESOME! Thanks for sharing your Finola sensimilla grow! YW :) Those Finola looks so different from our crop. Impressive. What's the average size range? Most are between 160 and 240cm tall. How much do they branch? There are 2 distinct pheno's: the wide branching ones and the more tightly grown 'Donkey dick' type of Cola's lol Maybe some are a bit in between but not that many.

It doesn't look like they have created substantial buds yet?! Most are now about a month into flowering and they were sown in on the 10th of May. Or are these older pictures? These were recent pictures Would be cool if you could get some decent macro shots?!!
Click to expand...
Sorry mate, this is about as good as it gets with my camera > Todays pics, shot 1 week after pollination. >
picture.php



picture.php
picture.php
 
D

DutchHempCBD

Member
offthehook said:
Sorry mate, this is about as good as it gets with my camera > Todays pics, shot 1 week after pollination. > ...
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. They looks quite nuglike. Cool! What do you mean 1 week after pollination. I thought you where growing sensimilla?! Do you have the other answers from post #214?
 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
My intent was to pollinate them with Diesel ryder and Diesel ryder back crossses to early's exclusively. But yes, the plan got changed a bit indeed, lol.

At first I thought I pollinate the biggest ones by hand, and let the smaller ones go sensi.

But then it seemed to become too much of a job, and so I easely pollinated them all by suspending a vase with male flowers high up on a pole in the middle of the field, lol :)

Last year, I did it on the way as was originally planned for, but then I only had a quarter of the amount I got this year. Work overload man, lol one's got to pick his battles, ehehe :D
 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
DutchHempCBD said:
Do you have the other answers from post #214?
Click to expand...

I thought I did answer the questions from #214 as good as I could in post #217.

Like 'how much do they branch' is a finicky one to answer correctly, lol. Some are branching more than others' would be the most accurate answer to that I'd say lol.

It was very difficult to me to shoot good pictures from individual plants, but without exposing the buildings on our property. Many shots I took I had to delete for that reason.^^

After harvest in mid September I could have a better go at that.

Quote:[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It doesn't look like they have created substantial buds yet?! [/FONT]There are plenty of pistills in especially the 'donkey dick' ones, the wider branched ones are slower/later, and have their pistills more widely and less densely spaced out.

But since they have only become pollinated one week ago, they are only now in the process of filling in the calyxes with seed. To build new pistills every day seems having their priority atm, but some pollinated calyxes are already getting more substance each day.

I personally am mostly after the 'donkey dick' types for reproduction > The earlyer flowering ones with, dense and large pistills that only branch a little.
 
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