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selfing cali elite lines?

W

weed whacker

Member
so i'm running some larger plants of various elite clones just for my personal stash, when the idea hit me during a discussion with my friend about sending him some clones: i could self these girls!


so if i throw up a colloidal silver generator and hermi them, in isolation, and self them, is there some reason this would not be legit?

the cuts are GDP (legitimate gdp cut, from a known good source corroborated by this forum), and san fernando valley cut of sour D.
 
H

Hazeseeker

I'd love to see Chem '91 aka Skunk VA S1's, not a big fan of feminised as i had them go mad hermie on me once but i'm currently growing FFA which i believe is from an accidental cross (Abusive OG x MSS - one hermied IIRC) and really impressed with it so far so it's installed a bit of lost faith inside me with the whole feminised thing, but regular male female will always be my first choice, i'd def try the Skunk VA S1's if they were available tho:yes:

peace
 
M

Mwood1011

Member
weed whacker said:
so i'm running some larger plants of various elite clones just for my personal stash, when the idea hit me during a discussion with my friend about sending him some clones: i could self these girls!


so if i throw up a colloidal silver generator and hermi them, in isolation, and self them, is there some reason this would not be legit?

the cuts are GDP (legitimate gdp cut, from a known good source corroborated by this forum), and san fernando valley cut of sour D.
Click to expand...

hell yea, this is what i wanted to do.. with urkel..

we could work together and try and get these genetics in seed form
 
Natagonnaworrie

Natagonnaworrie

If you love life, don't waste time. For time is wh
Veteran
maybe if there was some pollen from A REALLY REALLY GOOD male going around there would be some elite genes in seed form.... :joint:

I know an amazing Verified Purple Kush cut that is soooo horny :moon:
 
neongreen

neongreen

Active member
Veteran
Selfing is a great idea, but why not also use the same technique to cross elite clones?

That way you know you are using quality genes, and you are not inbreeding, so you should end up with some quality femed crosses.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Member
I've noticed drgreenthumb has selfed the la pure kush - packs are up on his site now - I've been thinking about doing the same thing with the la pure kush myself ;)
Kinda came to the conclusion that colloidal silver is the ticket - not nearly as unhealthy or harsh as the STS crap - good luck in your ventures guys!
 
grimweeder

grimweeder

Member
selfing is good but it can lead to a few problems,
1: the parent plants need to be fully stress tested to make sure they dont jus pass on the hermie trait, if they hermie with stress easily then they will probably pass it on, so not all elite clones can be selfed as some tend to hermie easily an when reversed the offspring isnt viable. sometimes itl jus be a few pollen sacks that can be removed at early flower which isnt too bad.
2: the general genetics get spread all over the show cos of the fact your pollinating the plant with itself so you usually end up with a lot of variation an the chances of getting a seed thats a true representation are extremely small.

thats about the main reasons there arnt more selfed elite clones on the market an most people choose to either use back crosses or outcrosses etc instead of the real genetics.

might be a good idea to cross 2 elite clone onlys like urkle and GDP as the GDP is supposed to be part urkle (i thought) it will introduce diff genetics an should give more stable offspring assuming either one you use for the pollen doesnt herm without chemicals like cs
if you use 2 different clone only elites then the results with feminized seeds should be good and are usually more stable than reg seeds (leavin out the hermie factor)
best thing to do is stress test a load an see wot ones are good to reverse then cross these with others kinda mix an match.

im all up for seeing some s1's though you never know might get lucky.
 
toastfighter2

toastfighter2

Active member
I would do it just in case you cant get the hook up on those cuts again, but I would also grow it out enough to make a few cuts and keep one as my own mother, just to keep some straight genetics. I had to do that with this ohio fog cuts I had(didn't keep a mother and still wish that I had to this day), but I am just now starting to get enought space in my cab to run it again from the beans I made.
 
C

Cinderella99

grimweeder said: "2: the general genetics get spread all over the show cos of the fact your pollinating the plant with itself so you usually end up with a lot of variation an the chances of getting a seed thats a true representation are extremely small."

So, GW, what you seem to be saying here is that in your experience, there IS much variation in an S1 generation from the parent...Now in your (expert) experience, do you find the variation in the S1 to be greater in poly-hybrids? In other words, is the variation of the S1 a function of the parent's genetic complexity? Thanks in advance...You are hotsh*t!

Who's got the space? My max is 2kW at 8x8.
 
grimweeder

grimweeder

Member
basically yea its a result of the parents being poly-hybrids it causes them to show their whole genotype as opposed to passing on the particular traits/genes you want.(i think thats worded right) most elites are not true breeding plants an jus have a rare one off expression/trait,
as most elite clones are poly hybrids an show a rare phenotype the chances of successfully recreating this are near impossible,
even when you cross 2 elite clones assuming they are both poly hybrids chances are they will not breed true, as its 2 recessive traits or genes that are not common so the offspring are more likely to show the other expressions in their genotype. if you cross a poly hybrid with a true breeding strain it will give more stable results an more plants will show the poly-hybrids pheno. then you can either back cross or create f1,f2,f3,f4 etc to further stabilise the traits u want. (kinda defeats wot your trying to do though)
its quit complicated to explain an i only jus kinda get the hang of it, i would say im far from an expert. it goes a lot deeper than wot i said but it starts goin into areas i hardly understand, so trying to explain that isnt easy.

id say have a bash at crossin 2 elites an see wot ya get. even with cubing/ selfing theres a chance of recreating the og even if it is a teeny tiny amount
thats prob why most people outcross/backcross to more true breeding plants an try to stabilise the traits they want from there on, its generally easier a lot less work an less plant numbers. anyway having a huge range of different pheonos can be good as long as they are usable then you may end up finding another few elites to add to the list.
i cant say ive ever crossed 2 elite clones tho. unfortunately i cant get any of the cali elites as im stuck in the uk. lol
hopefully there will be someone on here that can explain wot i mean a bit better/easier.
 
CannaExists

CannaExists

Paint Your DreamStrain
Veteran
grimweeder said:
basically yea its a result of the parents being poly-hybrids it causes them to show their whole genotype as opposed to passing on the particular traits/genes you want.(i think thats worded right) most elites are not true breeding plants an jus have a rare one off expression/trait,
as most elite clones are poly hybrids an show a rare phenotype the chances of successfully recreating this are near impossible,
even when you cross 2 elite clones assuming they are both poly hybrids chances are they will not breed true, as its 2 recessive traits or genes that are not common so the offspring are more likely to show the other expressions in their genotype. if you cross a poly hybrid with a true breeding strain it will give more stable results an more plants will show the poly-hybrids pheno. then you can either back cross or create f1,f2,f3,f4 etc to further stabilise the traits u want. (kinda defeats wot your trying to do though)
its quit complicated to explain an i only jus kinda get the hang of it, i would say im far from an expert. it goes a lot deeper than wot i said but it starts goin into areas i hardly understand, so trying to explain that isnt easy.

id say have a bash at crossin 2 elites an see wot ya get. even with cubing/ selfing theres a chance of recreating the og even if it is a teeny tiny amount
thats prob why most people outcross/backcross to more true breeding plants an try to stabilise the traits they want from there on, its generally easier a lot less work an less plant numbers. anyway having a huge range of different pheonos can be good as long as they are usable then you may end up finding another few elites to add to the list.
i cant say ive ever crossed 2 elite clones tho. unfortunately i cant get any of the cali elites as im stuck in the uk. lol
hopefully there will be someone on here that can explain wot i mean a bit better/easier.
Click to expand...

I understood everythin', good explanation.
 
C

Cinderella99

GW: Thanks for you're excellent and well considered post. It made perfect sense and, better yet, was based on your own real past experience. Killer. Thank You.

The only thing that I'd mention is that if we're selfing something, we have THE EXACT same genes we are "crossing"...So, if I understand your post correctly, it occurs to me that yes, these elites are polyhybrids-- with understandable F2 variation-- but isn't it different in that we're talkng about recombining the exact same set of genes? Wouldn't this S1 generation demonstrate far less variation than an F2 generation of the same elite strain?

Again, thank you for your thorough post. If there's anything I can do, just holla!
 
neongreen

neongreen

Active member
Veteran
grimweeder is spot on IMO.

What you get depends on what was done to the strain/strains before hand.

S1s when made from stable genetics, are more like variations on a theme, where as selfing a hack-cross is going to give you lots of variation.

I'm growing selfed seeds of a Trainwreck clone at the moment. Here they are, side by side (slight Mg deficiency and in need of transplants!). Very different plants, although there is also always a chance that the buds will have a similar cannabaloid profile to the parent clone.
picture.php


I've grown out selfed A77 Cali-O, Bubba Kush, and Blowfish (got one going now too) in the past, and they have all had the characteristics I would expect (up to a point, since I had problems with high temps plus I like to keep numbers low, so I can't really comment on all the aspects).

With selfed seeds, there is also a chance you can get something that is better than the clone the seeds were made from, just as there is the chance of substandard plants.

Crossing using pollen from a reversed clone could give you all sorts of interesting combinations and variety depending on the genetics involved. I think it's worth doing, but then I like to experiment :wink:
 
grimweeder

grimweeder

Member
i think from wot me an other people have found that in actual fact f2 generations hold more stablility an less variation than s1 gen.
if you have a strain without much genetic diversity an is quit stable it should self ok an the offspring should be ok to. its when you start playing around with plants that arnt stable or have a a freak one off expression.
the reason you get so much variation is cos when you self its like putting the gene pool in a head on collision with itself so the offspring has a wide range of phenotypes depending on what genes the plant is actually made up of.
creating f2 you work to stabilize a certain trait an as your mixing with a more stable true breeding plant this helps ensure some of the offspring pass on the desired traits from the clone only etc.

as neongreen says selfing is quit fun as it gives lots of diff phenos but i think for this reason mainstream breeders tend to stay away from it as many elites or plants people demand cant be selfed successfully to give viable offspring people wont bitch about.
probably explains why greenhouse seeds are takein so long with their cali elite seeds they are selfing.
 
Octavian

Octavian

Member
The terms you all are searching for are heterozygous traits vs homozygous traits. The more homozygous or true breedingthe particular plant being selfed in the traits you are looking for, the closer to the original plant the offspring will be.

Octavian
 
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