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Can Not Shake This Calcium Deficiency/Lockout For The Life Of Me!! Why???

Rabbi

Member
So about a little over a year ago I moved to a new place and I have been battling this Calcium issue every since moving here. Here's some info:

- Growing with Aeroponics in 5gal buckets(for almost 18 years now).
- First I was using Jack's Hydo and Cal/Nit but switched to AN 3 part(jungle juice) when the Jacks wasn't working out, since I'm more familiar with it.
- About 800ppm in flower of the M-G-B before any extra cal/mag added(but have gone as high as 1200ppm while trying to hammer things out).
- I am using r/o water(ppm 0)
- Water temps around 20-22c.
- Ph in the 6.5 - 5.5 range.
- Air temps 75-80f with lights on, 72-75f lights off.
- Co2 1500ppm lights on of course.
- 1000watt hps

I've tried adding all different kind of levels of extra cal/mag. At first none because AN says you don't need any with their products since they have enough in them.

Then I tried the recommended 150-200ppm of cal/mag. Then I tried 300ppm. Then I tried 400ppm, then 500 and then ridiculously crazy high amounts that I knew obviously wouldn't work but just to see what would happen, since shit wasn't working anyway.

Even on the super high amounts it never ever looked like excess issues, it always looked deficient all the time(lock out I assume?). And I'm talking super deficient too. Also no salt build up, clean rez's. No bugs. Even tried a different water source(city tap). I tried all these different levels for couple months at a time, just to make sure I wasn't jumping the gun too soon.

I'm literally at a loss right now. Running out of things to try. Just wasting my time, effort, money and resources. Any of you guru's out there have any idea what might be going on here? Been doing this along time, shit's just not suppose to be this fuckin hard lol.
 

gmanwho

Well-known member
Veteran
phantom deficiencies! U maybe experiencing some type of fusarium or other fungal infection. similar problems plagued me for years. till i found out i was recirculating my problems.

i think 80-220ppm of calcium is recommended. then half of that number should be matched with magnesium in a 2:1 ratio. if i remember correct. u could try a foliar of calcium if your certain its calcium. biominn ca is a great product to foliar

seems like you have the other things in check. other then the 1500ppm of co2. go with 1000ppm till u get things figured out. i remember reading that after 1500ppm plants can close up the stomata an go into stasis. if i had to say im willing to bet some genetics may slow at 1400ppm, an others at 1600ppm co2, so why guess. tbh i dont think i see any difference at 1000ppm or 1250ppm. but then again getting to the last final % of dialing in there are 1000 other variables of importance. dial down to 1000ppm so u know your not slowing anyone, thats still almost 3x atmospheric co2.

its funny u mention jacks. i thought jacks was the problem for me cause i had other nutrients perform better under same conditions. read up on fusarium. try bleach or pool shock in the water. another disinfectant is hydrogen peroxide.

just because roots aren't roted doesn't mean u dont have a fungal infection. infections can disrupt the uptake of nutrients inside the stem. one genetic could fight it off more then the other making the plant seem healthier. infections can partially paralyze the plant. i could go on an on....
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
You mentioned you moved, do you use r/o water or are you on a new water supply? What's the analysis, ppm, pH? What's in it?
 

Rabbi

Member
phantom deficiencies! U maybe experiencing some type of fusarium or other fungal infection. similar problems plagued me for years. till i found out i was recirculating my problems.

i think 80-220ppm of calcium is recommended. then half of that number should be matched with magnesium in a 2:1 ratio. if i remember correct. u could try a foliar of calcium if your certain its calcium. biominn ca is a great product to foliar

seems like you have the other things in check. other then the 1500ppm of co2. go with 1000ppm till u get things figured out. i remember reading that after 1500ppm plants can close up the stomata an go into stasis. if i had to say im willing to bet some genetics may slow at 1400ppm, an others at 1600ppm co2, so why guess. tbh i dont think i see any difference at 1000ppm or 1250ppm. but then again getting to the last final % of dialing in there are 1000 other variables of importance. dial down to 1000ppm so u know your not slowing anyone, thats still almost 3x atmospheric co2.

its funny u mention jacks. i thought jacks was the problem for me cause i had other nutrients perform better under same conditions. read up on fusarium. try bleach or pool shock in the water. another disinfectant is hydrogen peroxide.

just because roots aren't roted doesn't mean u dont have a fungal infection. infections can disrupt the uptake of nutrients inside the stem. one genetic could fight it off more then the other making the plant seem healthier. infections can partially paralyze the plant. i could go on an on....

Alright, thx for the advice man!

Think I'll just unplug the co2 generator completely for a while and see what happens.

New set up is in a shop this time(old set up in a basement) and the co2 generator is located across the room from the co2 meter/controller, with the plants in the middle. It could very well be possible that their's more than 1500ppm of co2 in the actual plant area. In fact I'd almost bet on it.

That is certainly one thing that has not occurred to me until you mentioning it. it's been a huge mystery for me since it appeared that everything was so dialed in and I tried so many different things.

On top of that this is a strain I've grown for years and very familiar with, so the mystery problem has been blowing my mind. However I did grow other strains as well just to make sure it wasn't just the strain somehow and they all struggled with what appears to look like calcium deficient.

I do have some hydrogen peroxide sitting around as well that I haven't been using. I will now.

Thank you very much for your advice. That actually makes sense to me. Really doesn't seem like I left many stones unturned but that could certainly be one. :tiphat:
 

Rabbi

Member
You mentioned you moved, do you use r/o water or are you on a new water supply? What's the analysis, ppm, pH? What's in it?

I did move but I use r/o water now and it comes through at a pure 0ppm. Yes it is a different water supply but at one time I even started hauling out my old supply that I was using before but ended up with same results(as the r/o water out here). A real head scratcher it was since that old water worked fine for me before. But gmans theory sounds totally solid to me. Gonna give it a try.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
We really need a photo. Even with things in front of you, it's still possible to get it wrong. As I'm sure you appreciate

PPM is very scientific, but almost non of us measure it. We have CF meters. PPM can be calculated from CF, but there are two ways of doing it, that give entirely different results. I have the famed CF Truncheon, and it actually gives two different PPM readings on the one meter. 900ppm could be cf11 or cf16 if I work backwards from your figure.
 

RockinRobot

Active member
seems like you have the other things in check. other then the 1500ppm of co2. go with 1000ppm till u get things figured out. i remember reading that after 1500ppm plants can close up the stomata an go into stasis. if i had to say im willing to bet some genetics may slow at 1400ppm, an others at 1600ppm co2, so why guess. tbh i dont think i see any difference at 1000ppm or 1250ppm. but then again getting to the last final % of dialing in there are 1000 other variables of importance. dial down to 1000ppm so u know your not slowing anyone, thats still almost 3x atmospheric co2.

I also read an article on CO2 saying PPM of nutrients should match CO2. Based on that if you're running 1500ppm CO2 then you should raise feed accordingly.

But as stated above 1000ppm CO2 is plenty. Every time I have gone higher I ended up with deficiencies. Mostly potassium for me.
 

Rabbi

Member
I also read an article on CO2 saying PPM of nutrients should match CO2. Based on that if you're running 1500ppm CO2 then you should raise feed accordingly.

But as stated above 1000ppm CO2 is plenty. Every time I have gone higher I ended up with deficiencies. Mostly potassium for me.

Ya, very interesting. Wouldn't be surprised one bit if that was the issue. Like I mentioned before I was literally running out of things to try(I thought).

I've been battling this for over a year. A real kick in the nuts too because I've been growing a long time so was a real humbling experience.

I was using the same meter in my old set up but we're talking the difference between shop space now, where's before was a small ass basement bedroom where the meter was located maybe 15' away from the generator.

Anyway I unplugged the generator in the shop tonight. If notice differences I'll adjust things accordingly.
 

Rabbi

Member
We really need a photo. Even with things in front of you, it's still possible to get it wrong. As I'm sure you appreciate

PPM is very scientific, but almost non of us measure it. We have CF meters. PPM can be calculated from CF, but there are two ways of doing it, that give entirely different results. I have the famed CF Truncheon, and it actually gives two different PPM readings on the one meter. 900ppm could be cf11 or cf16 if I work backwards from your figure.

Ok I'll try to grab and post some photos tonight sometime. It's honesty rather embarrassing lol. Feeling like amateur hour over here.
 
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Rabbi

Member
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Rabbi

Member
Does it take a while to upload pictures or something? I entered all my links.

Edit: K nevermind, got it.
 

Rabbi

Member
As you can see we're not talking a tad deficient here, it's major.

Even if all my nutrients levels and etc were off a bit their's no way shit would be this fuckin bad lol.

The buds are even worse in real life than they are on the picture(if you can believe that). Zero density at all and I mean none, straight hallow. Also super low crystal production, as you can see. This plant is 7 and a 1/2 weeks in flower.

This strain is HSO's Blue Dream. Normally super fat, crystal coated, dense buds. No where near the piece of shit you're seeing here.... how embarrassing :redface: lol.
 
A true Calcium deficiency shows as bleaching on new growth, as calcium is immobile.



What you have looks like nutrient lockout from some other issue.



Don't blame CO2 as the root issue. If anything its just making your plants work harder, adding to the lockout.



You must feed them a balanced solution consistently to fix the problem.



Maybe give some more specs on your system as aeroponics is finicky.



Also try to use EC instead of ppm since its universal.
 

hush

Señor Member
Veteran
A true Calcium deficiency shows as bleaching on new growth, as calcium is immobile.



What you have looks like nutrient lockout from some other issue.



Don't blame CO2 as the root issue. If anything its just making your plants work harder, adding to the lockout.



You must feed them a balanced solution consistently to fix the problem.



Maybe give some more specs on your system as aeroponics is finicky.



Also try to use EC instead of ppm since its universal.

Pretty much all of this. It is true that high ppm of CO2 needs to be matched with appropriate levels of nutes and lighting. That's just the science of the formula for photosynthesis. If there is a bottleneck, in at least one of those three factors, the photosynthesis will only be as successful as its limiting factor will let it be.

That said, I agree that this is definitely not a calcium deficiency, because it is an immobile element, and you would be seeing a specific look in all of the new growth. What I see here does in fact look like lockout, which can result from several factors, most commonly pH problems. Have you confirmed that your pH meter is accurate? Have you calibrated it? Tested it against some liquid drops or something like that?

If your pH is fine, then if I were you I would consider the possibility that you have fusarium, or some other fungal infection as was previously mentioned. Hell, maybe there's even some strange environmental factor in your new location, like offgassing from some construction product or something random like that.

But yeah, that looks like lockout.
 

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