What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

6-Benzylaminopurine (BAP) to Possibly Increase Budset and Productivity of Marijuana

dizzlekush

Member
PICS PLEASE

PICS PLEASE

I recently re-applied BAP at 200ppm in week 2 of flower and had deformed twisted growth develop at all terminal tips. This twisted growth was then overgrown by a surge of newer nodes. The entire plant "thickened" up and I noted a concentration of trichomes on stem tissue. I think I applied too early as I would have preferred the results closer to week 3 and 4 of flower. The controls are all much bigger and will out yield the BAP applied plants but I feel this was due to my own application error and not the BAP. I'll try to get pics.
Pics would be hugely appreciated. Aside from doubling the application concentration, was there any other way you applied the BAP differently than the time you applied ~100ppm when you saw no effects (e.g. fans on vs off, lights on vs off, temp, humidity, volume of applications, wetting agents/ adjuvants)?
 

humbleguy

Member
Veteran
It is important to note that I applied this solution for 3 consecutive days around 2 weeks into flower. I will be using the same solution to spray similar sized plants once going into week 4 of flower. I really wanted to see how it affected growth and now I will be better able to use it as a tool to control growth. lots of promise for this I think.

emphasized affect
picture.php


plant on left was treated with BAP
picture.php
 

cchem

Member
It is important to note that I applied this solution for 3 consecutive days around 2 weeks into flower. I will be using the same solution to spray similar sized plants once going into week 4 of flower. I really wanted to see how it affected growth and now I will be better able to use it as a tool to control growth. lots of promise for this I think.

emphasized affect
View Image

plant on left was treated with BAP
View Image

Nice work Humbleguy - now we're talking. Looking good! While I haven't played with BAP for sometime (been on the road for a while) I actually got to about 175ppm in foliar and also too noted some leaf twisting. The overall benefit though was worth it. I've also messed with it at much lower ppms in the res but have found that foliar - as with Tria is far more effective. I've found that tween 20 acts just fine as a surfactant, although one could get far more technical here and use a high quality non ionic alkyl polysaccharide surfactant such as polytrope 1620. Thanks for sharing and running a side by side. Really looking forward to hearing more about results re stretch control, nodal improvements/gaps, and final yield weights and quality. BTW - try introducing some Tria into the equation also - from about week 2 onwards. Alternate treatments and avoid the use of auxins with Tria as auxins are shown to mess with any benefits Tria offers. Peace.
 

humbleguy

Member
Veteran
Let's stay focused and try not to get into sources and personal drama. Please also try to keep things focused on BAP and not Triacontanol or other substances. It's easy to get excited about possibilities but unproductive when trying to isolate the potential of one substance.

I have several other clones going into their 3rd and 4th weeks so will be treating with a single application of 200ppm BAP.
 

dizzlekush

Member
Very nice, humbleguy.

How long ago was it treated? what was the ppm? how many times did you apply it(i would assume twice, once on each day 5 & 6 of bloom)?

Looks like it does the trick for cutting back on stem elongation. Also looks like it increased chlorophyll content quite a bit, but that might just be the lighting or due to small test group. Not too surprising though when it had the same effects at 15ppm when applied to the roots in a study (see attachment). Im curious as to how it effects root growth. the only time i've been able to test it so far i had an infestation of root aphids. It did well at mitigating leaf chlorosis & drop induced by the little bastards, but i couldn't say much about how it effected root growth due to the infestation. You see both increases and decreases in root mass as an effect of BAP application in studies very often, so its not easy to predict how the root mass will be effected.

You said your BAP treated ones where likely to yield less, but im not really seeing that in the pics you're showing. Glad to see that you're at least seeing some effects now from the formulation, was really surprised when you said you saw no effects at 100ppm.
 

Attachments

  • Screen shot 2012-10-29 at 2.54.29 PM.jpg
    Screen shot 2012-10-29 at 2.54.29 PM.jpg
    42.1 KB · Views: 30

humbleguy

Member
Veteran
Very nice, humbleguy.

How long ago was it treated? what was the ppm? how many times did you apply it(i would assume twice, once on each day 5 & 6 of bloom)?

Looks like it does the trick for cutting back on stem elongation. Also looks like it increased chlorophyll content quite a bit, but that might just be the lighting or due to small test group. Not too surprising though when it had the same effects at 15ppm when applied to the roots in a study (see attachment). Im curious as to how it effects root growth. the only time i've been able to test it so far i had an infestation of root aphids. It did well at mitigating leaf chlorosis & drop induced by the little bastards, but i couldn't say much about how it effected root growth due to the infestation. You see both increases and decreases in root mass as an effect of BAP application in studies very often, so its not easy to predict how the root mass will be effected.

You said your BAP treated ones where likely to yield less, but im not really seeing that in the pics you're showing. Glad to see that you're at least seeing some effects now from the formulation, was really surprised when you said you saw no effects at 100ppm.

These were treated on 10/13 and10/14 which was their 5th day into flowering, Luckily I keep adequate data logs:) I will say the cholorphyll level seems saturated in the treated plants. I would also like to point out that in the given space (height x width) the treated plant will probably produce more given it's compact structure. I will be concerned with bud rot in a few weeks as pistillate growth ensues.
 

humbleguy

Member
Veteran
200 ppm. I've noticed lower leaves abscising pre-maturely. They start to twist and curl and then just fall off. toxicity?
 

blueberrydrumz

Active member
ICMag Donor
yo humbleguy,
how did you make your BAP Spray, with lye or alchohol?
also did you spray pure? with fulvic acid, ph´ed solution? </p>as to twisting leaves i would guess if you mixed your BAP with Lye and didnt PH the solution after, it would have come out at around 8-9 PH..</p>also whot was the yield in the end from the 2 plants?</p>thx</p>
 

dizzlekush

Member
200 ppm. I've noticed lower leaves abscising pre-maturely. They start to twist and curl and then just fall off. toxicity?
I would imagine so. Before i stated that the likely optimal PPM range for BAP r.e. foliar applications to cannabis would be in the 50-300ppm range, i think i overshot that a bit. Im my most recent testing on BAP i found Cannabis to be surprisingly sensitive to BAP, i had best results when using a foliar application of <50ppm. I never saw signs of toxicity but 100ppm was the highest i tested.

yo humbleguy,
how did you make your BAP Spray, with lye or alchohol?
also did you spray pure? with fulvic acid, ph´ed solution? </p>as to twisting leaves i would guess if you mixed your BAP with Lye and didnt PH the solution after, it would have come out at around 8-9 PH..</p>also whot was the yield in the end from the 2 plants?</p>thx</p>

Humble told me he used my exact formulation, so both potassium hydroxide (lye nowadays means specifically SODIUM hydroxide) and methanol (a better solvent and less phytotoxic than ethanol).

I seriously doubt that pH had that effect on the leaves. Foliar applications of Potassium Silicate are very popular amongst cannabis cultivators and few pH their foliar solutions. If a little alkaline water had that effect on leaves, it would be fairly documented & well known by now.

I specifically formulated my BAP solution so that BAP would always be the limiting factor (most phytotoxic chemical) r.e. foliar application rates for C3 plants. If the plants respond negatively, supra-optimal amounts of BAP must have been used.
 

blueberrydrumz

Active member
ICMag Donor
I would imagine so. Before i stated that the likely optimal PPM range for BAP r.e. foliar applications to cannabis would be in the 50-300ppm range, i think i overshot that a bit. Im my most recent testing on BAP i found Cannabis to be surprisingly sensitive to BAP, i had best results when using a foliar application of <50ppm. I never saw signs of toxicity but 100ppm was the highest i tested.



Humble told me he used my exact formulation, so both potassium hydroxide (lye nowadays means specifically SODIUM hydroxide) and methanol (a better solvent and less phytotoxic than ethanol).

I seriously doubt that pH had that effect on the leaves. Foliar applications of Potassium Silicate are very popular amongst cannabis cultivators and few pH their foliar solutions. If a little alkaline water had that effect on leaves, it would be fairly documented & well known by now.

I specifically formulated my BAP solution so that BAP would always be the limiting factor (most phytotoxic chemical) r.e. foliar application rates for C3 plants. If the plants respond negatively, supra-optimal amounts of BAP must have been used.

Hey Dizzle,
you are prob right that a ph of 8 wont twist the leaves, but maybe it was even higher due to the alkaline solution? or just maybe overdose yeah...</p> what ís the difference if one would use SODIUM hydroxide?
 

Greeco

Member
Hey dizzle great thread as usual. I have been studying this thread for a few days now since I just ordered some BAP. I have a couple questions, first when mixing with methanol instead of acetone do you use the same amount? Also I was wondering why potassium benzoate is needed. Methanol is a disinfectant and would preserve the stock solution inhibiting bacterial growth right? Just curious because I'd rather not work with potassium benzoate unless its absolutely needed. Oh another question popped up in my head too. Once I dilute down to a "ready to use" solution will I still need a resparator mask, goggles and protective skin wear? I saw a study where only high amounts of potassium benzoate caused respatory problems in rats. I'm a little intimidated but thats a good thing.
 

dizzlekush

Member
Hey dizzle great thread as usual. I have been studying this thread for a few days now since I just ordered some BAP. I have a couple questions, first when mixing with methanol instead of acetone do you use the same amount? Also I was wondering why potassium benzoate is needed. Methanol is a disinfectant and would preserve the stock solution inhibiting bacterial growth right? Just curious because I'd rather not work with potassium benzoate unless its absolutely needed.
dont remember suggesting any benzoate for this formulation. This is the most current formulation i've provided and is what i've used for my experimentation.:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5305781&postcount=53

Oh another question popped up in my head too. Once I dilute down to a "ready to use" solution will I still need a resparator mask, goggles and protective skin wear? I saw a study where only high amounts of potassium benzoate caused respatory problems in rats. I'm a little intimidated but thats a good thing.
no need once diluted down to a working solution. Safety wear is only really needed for the formulation and safety goggles, long sleeves and gloves will be enough. Your main concern is the potassium hydroxide once its been dissolved in the methanol, before being diluted with water, the liquid will be very caustic and can burn your skin and eyes pretty significantly. Its not that much more dangerous than the more alkaline products out there like Advanced nutrients pH up or Dyna Gro's Pro-Tekt, but i've always though pH up products & silicates needed eye safety warnings at least.
 

Greeco

Member
ahh yes, you didn't suggest potassium benzoate that was a misread on my part =). I was getting things mixed up. Sometimes when I study I cram to much info at once haha. I will be making a 1% (10,000mg/l) BAP stock solution so that 1ml/l will equal 10mg/l of BAP. I need to order some potassium hydroxide. Thanks for the clarification. Once I start my testing I will be sure to take good pictures and share them with everyone.
 

fido

Active member
Hello, Im the owner and operator of Plants And Stuff. and Im here to set things straight.

First of all, I AM cheaper on that hormone and every other that we both sell. Yeah phyto's price is $8.75 Did you notice the shipping cost? The cheapest option was more then $10! Do you really think the are spending the entire $10 for a package that weighs less then 2 ounces? Not a chance. Your total price is more then $18.00 from them.

My price is $12.95 +1.75 shipping on that and most of my products of similar size(5g) Your total price with us is $14.75 and my shipping service will get you order to you most of the time in only 3 days not 5-7 days like phyto's fedex ground shipping. And un like phyto, every bit of the shipping I get goes to purchasing a shipping label. I make zero dollars from shipping, some items are even offered with FREE shipping.

Not only that but with PlantsAndStuff you are getting so much more then just the hormones. You will get detailed instructions on how to reach just about any useful ppm strength(with out using an expensive .001g scale), Storage, dissolving and application instructions. Plus a knowledgeable staff that is ready and willing to help you with questions. Try getting that from Cayman Chemical or Phyto. They'll tell you to go read a book.

Now look at Phyto's gibberellic acid 90% $91 PER GRAM! You'll pay only $14.95+$4.95 shipping with us and you will get 5 GRAMS GA3 90% plus detailed usage instructions. We even can tell you how to make a hermi plant so you can create 100% fem seeds if you ask us nicely :)

But as instructions go, every one of out product have them. Clearly we are no "Useless middle man". If you find a better price, we'll beat it unless its wholesale of course. However if you were to buy sufficient quantity, we could probably beat that too.

great info
thanks

fido
 
Top