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day 16 flower deficiencies

0

0x99

Member
Hi all,

I'm kinda new to soil / organic cultivation. I noticed that some of the lower leaves on my girls are starting to show deficiencies. Seems like the rhizosphere is healthy tho... is it possible they're just hungry? I vegged for 63 days in 10 gal pots.. about 3gal of SuperSoil at the bottom of each.. the main soil is roots organic original. I'm watering about once every 5-7 days in the big 10gal pots because they seem to take a lot longer to dry out... I would say each pot takes a little over a gallon of water per water.. Also I did a little defoliation about 4 days ago.

Strain is White Widow by Seedsman.

Is this normal to have these leaves dying off at the bottom this early in flower?

I top dressed at the beginning of flower with the KIS Organics nutrient pack, but I am using a drip system..

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


before defoliation:


after:




Deficiencies at day 14:






p.s. please dont go off on a defoliation vs no defoliation rant. I know its an easy thing to point fingers at but I've seen plenty of growers defoliate and dont really want to get into the age old argument. What i'm wondering if my watering schedule is too minimal/too much or what could be causing the lower leaves to die off... or if this is all normal as they make the transition
 
0

0x99

Member
Also please note I did have a small amount of fungus gnats i've been dealing with throughout the grow. During Veg the plants seemed 100% healthy.

One more thing to note, I have been making compost tea (to spec with microbeorganics.com) and feeding with compost tea about every 3-4 weeks
 
W

Wsmfp16

New member
looks like nute burn or lockout due to PH fluctuations to me. PH your plain water and your tea. Also check your run off PPM - that super soil may be hot.
 
A

Athos

Member
In this thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688 which is a sticky in the infirmary there are many questions that can help us help you if you take the time to answer them.
 
Lester Beans

Lester Beans

Frequent Flyer
Veteran
Looks like the plants are lacking some nitrogen. They use a lot during the stretch. I would mix in some veg nutrient for a little N just once.
 
0

0x99

Member
Athos said:
In this thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688 which is a sticky in the infirmary there are many questions that can help us help you if you take the time to answer them.
Click to expand...


How long has this problem been going on?
For about 5-7 days

What STRAIN are you growing?
Seedsman white widow

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
Seed

What is the age of your plants?
big ones are 63 days veg + 17 days flowering

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
I transplanted from 1gal pots to 10gal at week 3

Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
They were in pure Roots Organics soil with no super soil.


How Tall are the plants?
The moms (from seed) are 3ft

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Flower

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
um, 3 from seed vegged for 63 days, 3 clones from one of them vegged for 3 weeks.

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
10 gal pots w/ about 8-9 gal of soil. clones are in 5 gal pots with about 3 gal of soil.

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)

top 70% Roots Organics Original soil. Bottom 30% Homemade cooked super soil.


What brand Nutrient's are you using?
Super soil. Top dressed one of the 10 gal pots the other day with KIS Organics Nutrient Pack (1 cup spread across the surface and lightly scratched in)

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
Super soil recipe for the main nutrient base... Now starting to do 1 cup of KIS Organics Nutrient pack every 14 days as directed. (only 1 plant has had this feeding application.)



How often are you feeding?
I haven't fed at all besides testing 1 of them with the KIS Organics nute pack.. however I have done 2 compost tea applications (added mykos and 2 cups of worm castings w/ 5 Tbsp BSM)

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
I haven't switched nutes. see above.

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
see above

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
see above

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
I will test today, but I'm pretty confident that my rhizosphere is healthy... so aren't organic grows supposed to generally manage pH on their own in super soil?

How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
I havent, because i've just been following the super soil recipe.

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
I have a pen, I will test on the next watering.

How often are you watering?
I have moisture probes in my soil taking readings from the soil and sending them to an arduino to help me figure out when the soil is drying up. During veg once they were moved to 10 gal pots, i would water on average about every 5-7 days.

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
Super soil / KIS nute pack.. see above.

What size bulb are you using?
1200w realdro COB LED (pulls 660w in reality.)

How old is your bulbs?
1 yr

What is the distance to the canopy?
18"

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
~40-55

What is the canopy temperature?
73

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
night low of ~68
day high of ~75

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Exausting out a 4" duct w/ 2 inline fans and a carbon scrubber... inline fans are rated at about 130-200 each... so ~400CFM - 47% airflow from , so about ~170-200CFM total.

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
ventilation is running all day

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
I have a separate rotating fan blowing plants.

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
its constantly moist, but the top layer obviously drys up earlier.

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Hard

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
RO

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)

If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Not sure. tastes like RO water to me tho, so prob very low.

Are you using water from a water softener?
no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
pruned throughout the grow/ topped once. light defoliation @ about day 12 of flower.

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

No chemicals, just mosquito dunks to help keep fungus gnats under control.
 
A

Athos

Member
I would measure both the pH of the water you are using and the run off's pH and EC / PPM. In my current run I'm using organic soil and had some problems due not measuring /adjusting the water pH, even though only giving the plants pure water.

Before going crazy and run the risk of nute burning your plants, be sure to measure the run off's EC / PPM.

I had something like that happen to me too around day 18 to 20 during flower. The plant was getting water only since I had transplanted to a bigger pot 2 weeks before. I started feeding nutes then, including N high veg nutes, and it continued, even now 33 days later almost all the mid to lower leaves are yellowing / dying.

Leaves that are below canopy level and don't receive light, will be "killed" by the plant, it's normal.
 
0

0x99

Member
Athos said:
I would measure both the pH of the water you are using and the run off's pH and EC / PPM. In my current run I'm using organic soil and had some problems due not measuring /adjusting the water pH, even though only giving the plants pure water.

Before going crazy and run the risk of nute burning your plants, be sure to measure the run off's EC / PPM.

I had something like that happen to me too around day 18 to 20 during flower. The plant was getting water only since I had transplanted to a bigger pot 2 weeks before. I started feeding nutes then, including N high veg nutes, and it continued, even now 33 days later almost all the mid to lower leaves are yellowing / dying.

Leaves that are below canopy level and don't receive light, will be "killed" by the plant, it's normal.
Click to expand...


The pH of the water in my watering tank (i have a drip system setup on an arduino self watering system) is at ~6.6 to ~6.8. I will test my runoff with an TDS meter once it arrives (just ordered one), and my pH runoff as well.


all of the leaves that are having issues do appear to be below the cannopy level. The cannopy and the rest of the plants dont really look like they are having issues beyond a little nute burn on the tips from SS which is normal. That was one of my main questions with this thread. I've heard that they generally cannibalize lower leaves when you switch to flower.
 
0

0x99

Member
Hi all, Just an update, I checked the pH of each of the moms and clones.. Clones are all about 6.8.. 2 of the moms are at 6.8-6.9. and one at 6.6. the one at 6.6 still has a few leaves that look similar, though its all underneath the canopy.

Also just a heads up I *did* calibrate my pH meter so those readings are accurate :)
 
0

0x99

Member
sirsmokealot said:
I'm curious, how are your issues looking?
Click to expand...

I think what Athos said earlier about leaves below the cannopy getting killed off naturally by the plant is prob the case. None of the upper leaves are having issues at all, and overall they seem like they're doing what they should be. I gave one of them a slight top dressing to see if that resolved any deficiencies, and it didn't make things better or worse... So yeah, My gut is that lower leaves are dying off because the plant is going into 'its time to die' mode, conserving all energy it can for its flowers.

I still haven't checked EC yet, but my pH is right on the money on all of them, many thanks to my microbe friends doing all of the heavy lifting for me :woohoo:

Here they are today at day 31 flower
 
RubeGoldberg

RubeGoldberg

Active member
Veteran
this is why i hate super-soils. different stuff becomes available at different rates.

If you're gonna try to make it to the finish line with your super soil's nutes, start adding a Cal/Mg product to your feedings most companies make them.

Advanced Nutrients and Botanicare both make ones that I like. They'll round off your micronutrient profile. Also an enzyme product maybe to help break down your super-soil better.

That being said, bottom leaves dying are a sign of "mobile deficiency" which means the plant is missing out on something it can scavenge from other parts of the plant.

Tops going yellow are signs of a "immobile deficiency" which means its an element the plant can't move within itself.

In this case it doesn't matter.... The Cal/Mg will fix it for sure.
 
Mikell

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Any difference between the seeds and clones?

You can water Tim's tea once a week. It has similar Ca Mg as a weak dose of bottled nutrients. A light dose from a bottle will also bring your water closer to 6.3-6.5.
 
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