Info on The Real Seed Company?

Bill Drake

Bill Drake

White Beard said:

I seem t’recall there was a BIG big deal about polyploidy back in the late 70, 80s, using colchicine to double-bump their bud....

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I remember reading about that back in the 70's, the first book I bought on cannabis was a book by a guy named Bill Drake. The book had a whole chapter on inducing polyploidy through colchicine soaking. Colchicine comes from Crocus flowers, Colchicum automnalis. Unlike most crocus they bloom in the fall instead of late winter.
Haven't heard of anyone having much success with it since then though.

I believe I have that book...somewhere....
Always a big fan of Spirit...seminal psychedelia

ngakpa said:

Gatersleben is one of the most respected and authoritative botanical germplasm conservation projects in the world. It uses 100 plants for reproduction for conservation purposes. And reproductions are a necessary part of maintaining their collection.

That puts things in context, I hope.

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Given the variability in cannabis agriculture, I assume many land races, or at least accessions, have a history including many generations falling far short of this standard.

How many males and females contribute to a typical generation in a culture with separate seed and sinsemilla production? It’s surely dramatically fewer than in regions focused on hashish production....

Even in the later case, reproductions are valuable. If they are labeled as such, what more could anyone ask for?

zif said:

Given the variability in cannabis agriculture, I assume many land races, or at least accessions, have a history including many generations falling far short of this standard.

How many males and females contribute to a typical generation in a culture with separate seed and sinsemilla production? It’s surely dramatically fewer than in regions focused on hashish production....

Even in the later case, reproductions are valuable. If they are labeled as such, what more could anyone ask for?

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yes, you're right

And traditional village growing in Cambodia, Laos or Thailand before modern prohibition involved a household having a couple of plants in the garden, that's it. Same is true in Manipur today.

Similarly, in the Himalaya, a household had and has a small plot, somewhere well short of a hundred plants.

Same was no doubt true of most Sufi tekes, and so on...

This has been the norm for hundreds of years

Planning to grow out my Nepal Mileche seeds this coming summer (southern hemisphere). I'll have to learn how to make hand rubbed charas but that's all part of the fun isn't it!



I've been very happy with how RSC conduct themselves business wise. Keep doing what you do!

Night4wings20 said:

Planning to grow out my Nepal Mileche seeds this coming summer (southern hemisphere). I'll have to learn how to make hand rubbed charas but that's all part of the fun isn't it!



I've been very happy with how RSC conduct themselves business wise. Keep doing what you do!

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Not familiar with mileche. Please do share. Is this RSC, did i miss this?

thejact55 said:

Not familiar with mileche. Please do share. Is this RSC, did i miss this?

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It's RSC yes. They were freebies with their Chitrali or Turkish nearly a year ago now.


I'll post some photos/info once i start up the grow, in around 2-4 months.

thejact55 said:

Not familiar with mileche. Please do share. Is this RSC, did i miss this?

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the Nepali Mileche were originally collected by Bodhi from Annapurna, which is an area of Nepal not known for good charas. However, there is a village on the trek circuit there where you can find quite nice charas.

A Spanish breeder had made a repro of some Mileche seeds he got from Bodhi. Much later, the Spanish breeder gifted them to me with some seeds he supplied, to give away as freebies with them.

If you're interested in Nepali strains, the Nepalese on the site now has way better pedigree. It's from Rolpa, a proper growing region, where the best Nepali charas has come from for centuries, including in the Hippie Trail era ('Nepalese Temple Balls' etc.)

ngakpa said:

For the record:
Gatersleben is one of the most respected and authoritative botanical germplasm conservation projects in the world. It uses 100 plants for reproduction for conservation purposes. And reproductions are a necessary part of maintaining their collection.

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You are beating around the bush... but it's good that you admitting publicly that you are commercializing with "smuggled" genetic material from such an institution without consentment or their aproval. From collecting local landraces to pure biopiracy in order to get the bussiness going... that's a big change indeed.

Are you really conscious of what a Standard Material Transfer Agreement is and implies? Because the IPK, just like any gene bank, makes sure everyone signs one before they receive any material from them. I know from first hand because I've received vegetable seeds from the Gatersleben in the past and had correspondence with other gene bank curators because of some research. This is how true genetic preservation institutions work and operate on a legal basis.

The funny thing is that I know the biologist who was a member here and originally applied to order the seeds, allegedly for a research, and ended sharing them out without much control and realizing about the fact that, once you accept material, there is a contract to attend and legal implications involved, as well as making sure any other recipients accept those too. Ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist:

https://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/file...pk-ressourcen/Download/Gene_Bank_SMTA_IPK.pdf

Biopiracy isn't definitely something to be proud of, cashing on the work of genuine plant institutions and researchers who devote their careers to that, knowing how often the gene banks lack the resources and support for the important job they are doing. I wonder if you are planning to support them financially with your benefits? Because anyone commercializing with material obtained from them will be attained to give a monetary compensation as stated on the SMTA.

Even Monsanto was accused about this when they wanted to patent and sell a tomato accession they’ve obtained from the Gatersleben illegitimatelly as well:

The original tomatoes used for this patent were accessed via the international gene bank in Gatersleben, Germany, and it was already known that these plants had the desired resistance. Monsanto produced a cleverly worded patent in order to create the impression that genetic engineering had been used to produce the tomatoes and to make it look 'inventive'.

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The opponents have also accused Monsanto of biopiracy: The original tomatoes came from an international gene bank in Germany that is supposed to safeguard the seeds for the common good in further plant breeding to ensure world food security.

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https://sustainablepulse.com/2014/06/02/monsanto-slammed-fraudulent-eu-patent-non-gmo-tomatoes/

https://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/en/node/298

Last but not least, people should realize that this kind of practices is nothing but just detrimental for the researchers or breeders who may want to have legitimate access to material from gene banks in the future. Such practices just show a huge lack of ethics and respect for such institutions and professionals.

I think some people are going too far nowadays with their lack of principles…to be honest I don't even know if it's just mere ignorance, irresponsability or pure greedyness. As I've said, It's quite sad to see how people are just using preservation as a marketing gimmick to get a seed bussiness going.

ngakpa said:

For the record:

Gatersleben is one of the most respected and authoritative botanical germplasm conservation projects in the world. It uses 100 plants for reproduction for conservation purposes. And reproductions are a necessary part of maintaining their collection.

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Hi ngakpa,


are you sure that IPK uses 100 plants for reproduction purposes? I'm not sure of that, they need much space for doing reproduction of that size but they have only limited capacity and space available. I know that they're using only up to 12 plants for preserving Capsicum spp. varieties but to say they're not happy with that.

@Mustafunk -

First thing to note: I contacted IPK twice offering to submit my entire collection and never received a reply. I will be in contact with them in the future, once I'm back in Europe, to make sure they're aware of the offer.

Other thing to note: I've never received any material from IPK. However, they've sent out loads of seeds, which have in turn been reproduced and shared around the community.
The information on the site is there simply to make clear that the original collection of the strain wasn't done by anyone who collects for Real Seed Co.

Related point: IPK have recently greatly limited their sharing of material.

I'm not sure what's driving your new-found hostility toward me. But in all fairness, it doesn't seem to be ethics or a grasp of the facts.

Fwiw, I reckon at least three outfits have done straight out reproductions of strains I've collected, including the Lebanese, Mazar-i-Sharif, and Chitrali. None of them has acknowledged it openly. So be it, far as I'm concerned, as I don't claim any ownership over these strains. The money I make from this in many years hasn't even reached the tax threshold. Which makes it a little odd to be attacked like I'm some kind of profiteer.

For the record: Everything I collect is being submitted to a public good research program. All the strains will ultimately be freely available, as will all the results of research on them.

Which makes the reference to "using preservation for marketing" baffling. As with so much on this subforum, your accusation seems like the usual mix of bad faith and strawmen.

As said, I will also be greatly expanding the range of landraces available on the site, ie seeds direct from the origin country.

If I and other collectors don't make enough to cover the trips, never mind the risk, what would you like us to do? Should we collect for you and others for free? Or will you be going to Afghanistan for us yourself?

Incidentally, haven't you teamed up with one of the other landrace outfits? Is that what this is really about? It's a little difficult to fathom the hostility otherwise.

Dogtown said:

Hi ngakpa,


are you sure that IPK uses 100 plants for reproduction purposes? I'm not sure of that, they need much space for doing reproduction of that size but they have only limited capacity and space available. I know that they're using only up to 12 plants for preserving Capsicum spp. varieties but to say they're not happy with that.

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my understanding is that for Cannabis, IPK uses 100 plants.

ngakpa said:

@Mustafunk -

First thing to note: I contacted IPK twice offering to submit my entire collection and never received a reply. I will be in contact with them in the future, once I'm back in Europe, to make sure they're aware of the offer.

Other thing to note: I've never received any material from IPK. However, they've sent out loads of seeds, which have in turn been reproduced and shared around the community.
The information on the site is there simply to make clear that the original collection of the strain wasn't done by anyone who collects for Real Seed Co.

Related point: IPK have recently greatly limited their sharing of material.

I'm not sure what's driving your new-found hostility toward me. But in all fairness, it doesn't seem to be ethics or a grasp of the facts.

Fwiw, I reckon at least three outfits have done straight out reproductions of strains I've collected, including the Lebanese, Mazar-i-Sharif, and Chitrali. None of them have acknowledged it openly. So be it, far as I'm concerned, as I don't claim any ownership over these strains. The money I make from this in many years hasn't even reached the tax threshold. Which makes it a little odd to be attacked like I'm some kind of profiteer.

For the record: Everything I collect is being submitted to a public good research program. All the strains will ultimately be freely available, as will all the results of research on them.

Which makes the reference to "using preservation for marketing" baffling. As with so much on this subforum, your accusation seems like the usual mix of bad faith and strawmen.

As said, I will also be greatly expanding the range of landraces available on the site, ie seeds direct from the origin country.

If I and other collectors don't make enough to cover the trips, never mind the risk, what would you like us to do? Should we collect for you and others for free? Or will you be going to Afghanistan for us yourself?

Incidentally, haven't you teamed up with one of the other landrace outfits? Is that what this is really about? It's a little difficult to fathom the hostility otherwise.

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I like how you make sound so heroic to get on airplane and fly to another country and find seeds.

Water- said:

I like how you make sound so heroic to get on airplane and fly to another country and find seeds.

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What exotic strains have you collected from across international borders? How many villages in the countries welcome you and share their genetics?

bigtacofarmer said:

What exotic strains have you collected from across international borders? How many villages in the countries welcome you and share their genetics?

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why would I tell you anything?
who are you ?
how would you know if i have ever shown thanks?
i have and I am customer



I have never smuggled anything in my life and never will.
I have no idea what you are talking about.




to think that I would reveal anything to you makes me laugh

are you really that dumb to think i woud incriminate myself to impress somebody on the internet

Water- said:

sorry piggy.

I have never smuggled anything in my life and never will.
I have no idea what you are talking about

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Lol. Maybe you should before knocking someone else's efforts. Or at least thank him.

ngakpa said:

I contacted IPK twice offering to submit my entire collection and never received a reply. I will be in contact with them in the future, once I'm back in Europe, to make sure they're aware of the offer.

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Good for you, I did too. But make sure you also contact them to let them know you've decided to sell their accessions illegitimately in the Cannabis seed market.

Fwiw, I reckon at least three outfits have done straight out reproductions of strains I've collected, including the Lebanese, Mazar-i-Sharif, and Chitrali. None of them has acknowledged it openly.

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And that's also a shame indeed, if something matters is giving credit when due and having integrity and ethics on that. Respect those doing their thing, but when you are selling and distributing seeds, it's a whole different thing I guess. Othewise, give them away using signed MTAs too like the gene banks do.

Incidentally, haven't you teamed up with one of the other landrace outfits? Is that what this is really about? It's a little difficult to fathom the hostility otherwise.

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Teaming up with who? You should take your time to research carefully before speaking like I did. I knew about this man before he provided seeds for that greedy guy's company, mostly because he is a respected expert and preservationist of Colombian heirlooms. With him I did nothing but advicing to stay away from interested people who's only interest is obtaining something to cash on, while he does the real plant work. Sounds familiar? It seems he's finally realizing about it the hard way though.

Our collaboration simply consisted on sending a bunch of different seeds from my collection to a fellow and licensed grower from Colombia, so he could try to grow them in the proper tropical enviroment. No bussiness interests whatsoever as you suggest, and nothing to do with you either. No hostility here, just pointing true facts most people could have missed here and should be noted because they actually say a lot.

Anyway the info is out there. Let people think for themselves now.

I'm out.

ngakpa said:

my understanding is that for Cannabis, IPK uses 100 plants. But I may be wrong about that.

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thats some interesting point, even if they a institute for plantbreeding they don't got any license to even grow out seeds over the national thc limit.

also IPK has some specific rules about giving out genetics which also chanced to the negative during the last months/years...

a few years ago you had the option to make a list with seeds/genetic you interested in with a short notice for what use and they would send you some of those on the list but never all of em...

well it sounds much more deeply and complexer than i ever could have thought i alone can have understood ever, together. I can understand your anger and confusion in that frustration, frankly i think.
But i dont understand. please keep me the truth is honesty within from that honestly here.

and i dont see the trouble there, farming.. hardly know what I've said for now. I'm in love remember.

Mustafunk said:

make sure you also contact them to let them know you've decided to sell their accessions illegitimately in the Cannabis seed market

No hostility here, just pointing true facts most people could have missed here and should be noted because they actually say a lot.

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in fairness, the delight and hostility in your posts is self-evident

Mustafunk said:

Anyway the info is out there. Let people think for themselves now.

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the origin of the seeds is indicated on the website


so yes, obviously when I contact them again I will make them aware, if they aren't already - from, you know, reading the website


truth is, every criticism levelled at Real Seed Co has been based on information openly provided at the site

and the criticism either involves distorting the facts, as with reproductions, or falsely pretending I'm hiding something

it's bad faith from start to finish, as the gloating negativity makes so obvious

If I had to guess what's really bothering some people I'd guess it's the honesty, but god knows really