refractometer to measure brix

bamboogardner said:

Hi Michael and glad you have the time to promote good soil practices to us. On that topic, how do you feel about adding agricultural zeolite to the top rhizosphere of the soil in a 33% peat, 33% compost/EWC mix, and 33% aeration, and which soil has been amended to Albrecht's standards?

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I have heard and read many interesting things about zeolite but have never used it myself. I know it has a high CEC and is used for filtration and detoxification of liquids, which I would assume works by adsorbing toxic heavy metals and molecules onto the - charged sites. My main rule is I don't put anything into the mix that hasn't been lab tested so I know the mineral composition.

For instance, what if you have all of your base cations balanced in the soil/media, but the zeolite turns out to be loaded with potassium? I've seen this with humate ore, incredibly high levels of potassium. I learned this idea the hard way with expanded vermiculite: mixed a large batch of amended peat with vermiculite, sent a sample in for testing, only to find out that magnesium was through the roof, when I had added no magnesium. Turns out vermiculite is almost totally saturated with Mg.

Canadian paramagnetic basalt, OTOH, tests out at 80%Ca, 7.5%Mg, and 7%K saturation, with Fe and Mn in good balance. It's always good to know what one is adding.

Microbeman said:

Yes, I've been harping on the use of flagellates and naked amoebae for nutrient uptake for years.

In the Vigdis Torsvik labs in Europe they have been conducting studies which indicate that archaea may be much more ubiquitous than thought and responsible for the lion's share of N mineralization in soil.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060817103131.htm
The tally suggested that copies of the archaeal gene in the soil samples were up to 3,000 times more abundant than copies of the bacterial gene. High amounts of lipids specific to crenarchaeota confirmed the organism's presence.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090930132656.htm

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Fascinating links. An organism only discovered 30 years ago (archaea) turns out to be the dominant nitrifier worldwide; at least that's what it looks like.

Hi m_astera, thanks for chiming in. Your real world ,large scale knowlage is indispensable for taking canna growing to the next level.

What is being done by many to break the mold that has been used for 30+ years in the canna world is great. Getting everyone to realize you can do inside what you can out is revolutionary. Microbes control the world, but I'm with the school of thought that the mineral balance is just as important. From my understanding is that if both are in happy there is no stopping a plant.

I have a question. I was going to mix a soil batch and wanted to try something new. Its funny because i was sitting down with you book trying to figure out where to start. I found your post elsewhere about the weight of potting soil. I can't say how helpful that is in this whole process. Now would you do a standard cornel mix with 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost,1/3 areation and then test that and go from there or what is a mix you like to use.

A second question have you ever come across composts that gave a good cation balance and not loaded with K. Also is it possible to heavly amend a worm bed with Ca products to get a better ratio?

My thoughts epuld be that i amend heavly with Carbonatite (http://www.borealagrominerals.com/uploads/2/2/1/4/2214955/6981460.jpg?848) and some qypsum ( more CA and try and load some more S to balance the P). I might end up with a balanced worm compost. I could totally be off though. Just some thoughts.

Where is the line for adding compost?

Thanks for you time.

Timbuktu

New Thread - The Ideal Soil

New Thread - The Ideal Soil

Hey Michael. Why don't you start a new thread in the organic soil section called The Ideal Soil? Here you could answer questions and it would be your thread to go where you want with it? I am sure the community would be greatly appreciative.

For those that are unaware, Michael is one of the leading mentors on soil, an accomplished author, and overall great person who shares his knowledge freely with us. And more important, he is here and canna friendly to boot.

So please, please, please Michael, start your own thread. And the amendments you recommended to me for my soil this year are working great, and the girls are literally giants. Here is one pic taken early August next to a 10 foot orchard ladder grown in a 200 gallon smartie.

Are people using petioles or straight leaf?

bamboogardner said:

Hey Michael. Why don't you start a new thread in the organic soil section called The Ideal Soil? Here you could answer questions and it would be your thread to go where you want with it? I am sure the community would be greatly appreciative.

For those that are unaware, Michael is one of the leading mentors on soil, an accomplished author, and overall great person who shares his knowledge freely with us. And more important, he is here and canna friendly to boot.

So please, please, please Michael, start your own thread. And the amendments you recommended to me for my soil this year are working great, and the girls are literally giants. Here is one pic taken early August next to a 10 foot orchard ladder grown in a 200 gallon smartie.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=62184&pictureid=1488051View Image

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Hey Bamboo-

I'm planning to start a new thread called 'balancing soil minerals' muy pronto. I wanted to have 50 posts before I did that so I could use my own avatar and not be labeled a newbie. This is post 49. My answer to VortexPower420's question will be number 50.

That is one nice looking shrub, man.

VortexPower420 said:

Hi m_astera, thanks for chiming in. Your real world ,large scale knowlage is indispensable for taking canna growing to the next level.

What is being done by many to break the mold that has been used for 30+ years in the canna world is great. Getting everyone to realize you can do inside what you can out is revolutionary. Microbes control the world, but I'm with the school of thought that the mineral balance is just as important. From my understanding is that if both are in happy there is no stopping a plant.

I have a question. I was going to mix a soil batch and wanted to try something new. Its funny because i was sitting down with you book trying to figure out where to start. I found your post elsewhere about the weight of potting soil. I can't say how helpful that is in this whole process. Now would you do a standard cornel mix with 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost,1/3 areation and then test that and go from there or what is a mix you like to use.

A second question have you ever come across composts that gave a good cation balance and not loaded with K. Also is it possible to heavly amend a worm bed with Ca products to get a better ratio?

My thoughts epuld be that i amend heavly with Carbonatite (http://www.borealagrominerals.com/uploads/2/2/1/4/2214955/6981460.jpg?848) and some qypsum ( more CA and try and load some more S to balance the P). I might end up with a balanced worm compost. I could totally be off though. Just some thoughts.

Where is the line for adding compost?

Thanks for you time.

Timbuktu

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VortexPower (or is it Timbuktu?)--

What's most important to me is knowing the mineral analysis of every component. My approach is to have the peat tested, the compost tested, the coco coir tested, anything that is an unknown gets sent to the lab for a Mehlich 3 or a compost/manure fertilizer test (the latter is a complete digest test, where the compost is dissolved in acid and analyzed for total amounts of elements). Some of the A&L labs offers this as the M2 test.

If the peat and compost are mixed first, then sent in for analysis, and something is way too high, there's no way of knowing which component is the culprit.

Probably I have seen a compost analysis that was in balance. but I don't recall offhand. Mostly I see composts that are way out of balance, which can be fine as long as they can be brought into line with some mineral additions. Some really can't; what do you do with a compost that has a pH of 8, 27%K saturation and 9%Na saturation?

What percentage compost can be used? I'd say as much as one wishes, as long as the minerals are there and balanced.

I haven't used the Carbonatite, though I am well aware of it. To date I haven't had it offered in a small enough quantity (less than a truckload) to try it out. I think of it more as a good source of readily available trace elements, Ca, and Fe than a phosphorus source.

The reason for knowing the weight per unit volume of a container growing media is that they very wildly. The usual assumption for agricultural soils is that the top 6 to 7 inches of one acre weighs 2 million lbs, so one part per million = 2 lbs/acre. This works out to around 5600 grams per gallon of soil. Soilless media mixes like you are using generally only weigh around 1200 grams per gallon. When amending by parts per million of weight, you would only use around 1/4 as much for a soilless media as for a heavy mineral agricultural soil.

Michael...if one tils every grow (every 11 weeks say) can one ever develop a truly effective myco network? And if you can't is there any reason not to pick ammonium phosphate as a P source?

Congratulations your 50th!!!!!

You can call me what ever you want just not late for dinner. When I started this this was my first dive into the internet world so i didnt know what was going on. I go by Timbuktu other places.

Awesome. Thanks. I have to be honest I have never done a soil test before. I plan on doing one this week because I am curious.

Right now I am driven by humus with a heavy hand with the carbonatite and gypsum to keep the Ca up. My only food source is kelp, alfalfa and wildcrafteed comfrey, horsetail, nettle, clover, dandelion, Mullen and yarrow.

My feeling is this and I maybe wrong as far a balancing goes it works great is this. Keep the worms happy and the plants are happy. I know as the worms are eating the plant matter they are locking the nutrients in the humus and clay. With the addition of extra Ca I hope to keep the K down in relation to the rest of the ccarbon. I try and keep a diverse supply under my mulch for the worms to chow down on so I feel the rest is there and the plant and microbes can work out the rest. I never apply compost any more I get about inches every run.

I know how you and some other feel about feeling like something is some way with out facts so I am going to get a soil test. I'll see if my theroy is correct and the I can get the rest of the elements in check.

I very fortunate to have Dan and nutrient dense supply company local to me with all the goodies. He also has carbonatite in 50 lbs sacks.

Thank you for your input, I am always humbled being able to talk to the people who are out there testing soils figuring out how to grow plants without damaging the earth,sequestering carbon and feeding the planet. Thanks for the knowlage.

Timbuktu

Brix levels are extremely important. It indicates how healthy the plant is and it's production level. If the plant isn't producing sugars it won't be producing cannabinoids either, IMHO.

Sorry to bump an old thread but this is the only thread which showed after a search for "refractometer".

Anyone know who makes a really good digital refractometer for a very reasonable price?

I can't afford an expensive one but don't want one which is isn't accurate or won't last long term. I'm asking because this thread is more than two years old so surely there are newer models available.