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Mg def? Having slight problems with heads formula

AceHaze

AceHaze

HIGH GRADE SPECIALIST
Veteran
Hi there!
I am having some trouble with my coco grow. I was using canna coco A B along rhizo and cannazym for the first weeks. EC never above 1.2 and ph around 6. I noticed light green leaves and some yellow tips so I decided to give GHE and the heads formua a try. For the last 3 days I have been feeding 80% strength of 6 micro soft water and 9 bloom with 100 percent RO as base. I add some Canna Rhizotonic to raise the ph to 5.8 and ec is at 1.1 to 1.2 I see some clawing and yellowing of the lower leaves and canoeing of the top leaves around the tip. Coco Brand is Coco star bricks which is supposed to be buffered. I feed with a little run off and try not to let them dry out totally watering once a day.

Here are some pics...
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To me it looks like mg def, maybe due to low ph? I don not really trust my ph meter. Today I watered with ph at 6.1 to see, if i am on the right track
Any opinion is highly welcome!

Peace
Ace
 
D

dribbled

This is my first coco grow, so I don't know much.
I planted into straight coco, use a 1k sodium for bud, a 400w metal halide for veg. I use heads formula strictly, GH 6/9, little runoff, multiple times a day. I toss the runoff. I use unfiltered tap water that reads 35ppm. When I mix a gallon with GH 6/9, I almost ALWAYS get PH 5.84.... around 740 ppm. I'm growing 4 strains using this method and it works killer. My plants love it. I don't add or do anything more than I've told you. I add NOTHING but coco, water and 6/9 formula.
I'd say if you're using heads formula, and you're having issues, it's because you're adding things to that recipie. That's messing with a proven method.
Good luck!
 
AceHaze

AceHaze

HIGH GRADE SPECIALIST
Veteran
Hi, DP and Student of Life!

DP, i have seen your thread, quite an informative read! You could be right regarding the Rhizo, but it reads almost nothing on the ec, if you add a little bit of it, but maybe it inbalances the micro nutrients...i might try using ph up instead.
I have several succesful coco grows under my belt, but that was with a very old RO device and ec wasn't 0.0 as it is now with a fresh one. Never had big problems with the old device and canna nutes. But i don't want to mix the RO with my tap water, 'cause it causes black ash in the final product. My tap water really sucks!

@Student of Life: Those pots are called superroot air-pots. That was also my concern when i transplanted from the smaller ones to these, but you can unscrew them, so it was no big deal. I really like those pots so far. First time for me also...

Peace
Ace
 
D

dribbled

AceHaze said:
Those pots are called superroot air-pots. That was also my concern when i transplanted from the smaller ones to these, but you can unscrew them, so it was no big deal. I really like those pots so far. First time for me also...
Click to expand...

Those pots are great! What size do you have there? If they're at least 2 gallons, I would make them my final container- No need to transplant. But that's just me. There are a lot of pictures out there of trees grown in 2 gallons of coco.
 
S

Student Of Life

Member
My girls seem to be having very similar issues using Canna Coco AB. Will be interesting to see what the consensus is on your pics. Oh and DickPissed, you should really only be keeping your containers that small if you're planning on multi-feeding. If you're feeding once a day by hand, I don't think it's a good idea to keep the roots couped up look that.
 
gr866

gr866

Active member
Veteran
I was having the same problem.
I talk with someone at Canna in LA and they suggested not using straight RO, to buffer that to around 120 ppm or 0.17 EC. My tap water sucks also ( over 850 ppm), but I added one cup to the RO and then add my A&B and it all is good, so far.
Hope this helps,
GR
 
D

dribbled

Student Of Life said:
My girls seem to be having very similar issues using Canna Coco AB. Will be interesting to see what the consensus is on your pics. Oh and DickPissed, you should really only be keeping your containers that small if you're planning on multi-feeding. If you're feeding once a day by hand, I don't think it's a good idea to keep the roots couped up look that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, multi-feeds by hand, every day. That's how Head did it and that's the method I'm following. If multifeeding is a hassle, do a drip or blumat system... But keep water going thru it.
I havent even started using my 2 gallon smart pots yet, so I shouldnt even butt in... But just mentioning how Head did it, if you're trying to follow his method.
 
FirstTracks

FirstTracks

natural medicator
Veteran
I use 6/9 with GH micro/bloom with roughly 2.5mL/gal of calmag. Plants were ok, with minor deficiencies, without the calmag. Once added, as long as I've got enough N in my mix (sometimes bumping to7-7.5/9) my plants are nice and healthy.
I've found6/9 to be a touch heavy for some of my sativas, and a tough light for some of my heavier feeders. Always adjusting to what they seem to be asking for.
I'm growing in bricked GH/botanicare coco mixed about 60/40 or 50/50 with chunky perlite. Layer of perlite 2" deep on bottom. Feed every couple days to 10% runoff. Try not to let it dry up all the way, to keep the cations exchanging.
 
S

Student Of Life

Member
Dick Pissed said:
Yeah, multi-feeds by hand, every day. That's how Head did it and that's the method I'm following. If multifeeding is a hassle, do a drip or blumat system... But keep water going thru it.
I havent even started using my 2 gallon smart pots yet, so I shouldnt even butt in... But just mentioning how Head did it, if you're trying to follow his method.
Click to expand...

Right on. You're a patient guy lol. Theres no way I could hand feed all 20 of the girls twice a day. Setting up a manifold system and cant wait to show the forum.
 
AceHaze

AceHaze

HIGH GRADE SPECIALIST
Veteran
Yes, I've heard it before, that Canna coco nutes are not designed for pure RO. The problem is, there is no botanicare cal/mag available in Germany. I have a mono suplement magnesium from canna, but I'm not sure, how to dose it.
During former grows I used Bio Bizz Algamic instead and it worked ok. I was just looking for the easiest way without having to buy 5 different bottles...
Would be great, if canna had a Coco Fert. for soft water, like they are selling for Hydro. I also tried the Canna Hydro soft water version in coco, but that is too high in K compared to the Coco A/B...
 
AceHaze

AceHaze

HIGH GRADE SPECIALIST
Veteran
These pots are only 6 liters, but they are also available in a 10 and 20 liter version. I used to grow in 7 l pots before, should be allright to use them till the end. I just don't have enough RO water for bigger pots, if I want to have enough drain
 
Buddler

Buddler

Well-known member
Veteran
Agreed with haze , you said your running at 80 % of 6/9 run full with lots of runoff to get CEC happy then you can back off.you can also foliar feed epsoms or rhizo tonic :joint:
 
AceHaze

AceHaze

HIGH GRADE SPECIALIST
Veteran
Because I was worried about the plants health, I bought a fresh liter of Canna Coco AB and flushed every plant with EC 1.2, PH 5.9. I mixed 20ml AB, 20 ml Rhizo, 25 ml Cannazym and 50 ml GHE Urtica nettle brew per 10 l. I measured the run off and it was at 1.7 EC! As I never exceeded 1.2 or 1.3 max, it seems like the plants could not eat the food they had. Maybe because the PH was too low or maybe the cocostar coco bricks were too hot... I did not rinse the coco before use, cause the label said it was buffered and ready to use... photos are in my grow diary. Thanks for all the input guys!
 
M

Miraculous Meds

Well-known member
gh 6/9 in ro water should come out right around 1.2ec 5.9ph. I haven't used canna, but with gh, u don't have to use any other nutrient or additive. For ur plants i would flush thru with 1.2ec, 5.9ph base nutes, with nothing else. If the roots haven't filled the pots yet, let the plants go thru a dry cycle then water to runoff again. Do that a time or two, n ur roots should start to fill in, then water it consistently not letting the plants dry again. As long as u get a little runoff u shouldn't have any problems.

The problems ur having could be coming from ur additives or environment, or keeping to wet or dry. Make sure u have some air circulation to slightly move the leaves in the canopy. Make sure ur root zone temp is not too cold. And keep ur rh 5 to 10 points below ur temp. A good fast vigorous veg schedule I use is 82f/75%rh. And also low rh in relation to ur temps can cause the problems ur having too. Get these things in check n ur plants should be back in vigorous mode in no time.
 
FirstTracks

FirstTracks

natural medicator
Veteran
Miraculous Meds said:
gh 6/9 in ro water should come out right around 1.2ec 5.9ph. I haven't used canna, but with gh, u don't have to use any other nutrient or additive. For ur plants i would flush thru with 1.2ec, 5.9ph base nutes, with nothing else. If the roots haven't filled the pots yet, let the plants go thru a dry cycle then water to runoff again. Do that a time or two, n ur roots should start to fill in, then water it consistently not letting the plants dry again. As long as u get a little runoff u shouldn't have any problems.

The problems ur having could be coming from ur additives or environment, or keeping to wet or dry. Make sure u have some air circulation to slightly move the leaves in the canopy. Make sure ur root zone temp is not too cold. And keep ur rh 5 to 10 points below ur temp. A good fast vigorous veg schedule I use is 82f/75%rh. And also low rh in relation to ur temps can cause the problems ur having too. Get these things in check n ur plants should be back in vigorous mode in no time.
Click to expand...

So true with the RH and temps. Had my RH down around 40% and my temps were 65-75. Plants were growing all stunted. Small leaves and slow growth. Bumped my RH up to 70-80% and temps up to 70night/80day and plants took off. The foliar feeding probably helped too.
 
AceHaze

AceHaze

HIGH GRADE SPECIALIST
Veteran
Took some clones today and flushed most of the plants with heads formula 6/9 with a little ph up without any additives as suggested- ec 1.3 ph 5.9. Run off was between 1.4 and 2.0 (!). Ph of the run off was at 5.9. I am definately not going to use the cocostar coco bricks again, as they seem to be too hot without prior rinse. Gonna get the loose canna coco next time...
Low temps could also be a factor. The RO is very cold; I am going to let it warm up more before watering in the future. General temperature is not below 19 celsius, rh is around 50. I'll keep you updated. Thnx again
 
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