Riboflavin
Member
My little seedlings are only about 4 days old, when should I put a small fan in the room to get some air blowing on them?
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How early do you put moving air on your plants?
- Thread starter Riboflavin
- Start date
KnuckleHedd
Member
Be extremely careful with that. New seedlings can dry up amazingly fast. Simply having a fan moving air around the room is sufficient to prevent stale air accumulating at the site.
Seedlings indeed need humidity around 60% in my experience, i think u should put an oscillating fan on them only when they reach 3-4" in height and they have a couple of sets of leaves. Also make sure the fan its not too close to them to avoid unnecessary stress, keep it a couple of feet away, just enough to get a nice little breeze going.
madassimi
Member
those seedling are too fragile for air right now. the air will dry them up! they need humidity and low light.
don't worry about the air until they're at least 7-10 days old and a few inches high.
never blow the air directly on them. i direct my air towards the lights and over the top of the plants.
don't worry about the air until they're at least 7-10 days old and a few inches high.
never blow the air directly on them. i direct my air towards the lights and over the top of the plants.
as KH mentioned be careful smaller containers of soil can dry out faster but i use small fan from before sprout. when plants get larger the fans do also and they run all way to chop. you dont want hurricane force wind you just want the seedling to gently jossel some.
i start seed in a 50 site rapid rooter starter tray i fill the small squares with soil. i dont use a dome my average RH is less then 20% outdoors when i water them i use a spray bottle on mist and mist the soil untill drainage is achieved. i mist with spray bottle at lights on and lights out.
Seedlings never need air blowing directly on them. Circulation fans are not required at any stage. They're optional. If you want to toughen the plants, beat them up by hand. Wiggle their stems. Brush your hand back and forth along the top.
I've always started air movement as soon as they pop from seed, under floros. In a week or so when they move to a bigger light(400mh for me). I let the fan blow above the seedlings and below the light. Start that air moving and it will increase the size and strength of the stem, among other benifits. Of course keep that humidity up as possible.
LadyLargely
Member
That's some fine advice for someone growing from clones. Clones are genetic copies of their mothers and will end up just like them unless you seriously fuck something up.
However, I don't think you should be giving your advice to someone who is growing from seed.
Seed-started plants are very impressionable, the kind of environment they develop in can have a massive impact on whether they go male or female. Having a fan constantly blowing on them from a young age is an environmental factor that will push them very hard towards being MALE.
Among all the environmental factors that can cause males; topping, high potassium to nitrogen ratio during veg, warm color temps, short nights, high temperatures, etc. the worst of them all is blowing them with a strong, constant breeze. Cannabis is a smart plant, it makes 'observations' about its environment and then changes it's chemistry to suit. Some of you Icmag gardeners seem to grow cannabis in the perfect conditions for making males.
Tall, thin, spindly plants vegged with very long days (or 24 hour light), possibly tipped or fimed under orange lamps with a fan constantly blowing on them. This is just begging a seed-started plant to go MALE!!
Cannabis is a plant, a plant that came from nature. Plants in nature behave according to their evolutionary imperative: reproduce themselves. A cannabis plant's goal is to swap genetic material with as many other cannabis plants as possible. Just like us, they want to fuck everyone!
You grow a skinny plant that is constantly under a stiff breeze and its gonna realize that. Its gonna realize the best way for it to fuck lots of other plants is to go male. If it goes male its lonely top cola waaaaaay up at the top of this skinny 4-5 foot tall plant it is in the perfect situation to spread pollen. It thinks its living in a valley or near the sea with a constant wind going on. It thinks that shit is gonna carry its pollen for MILES. Of course it goes male!
The wonderful thing is though, it works in reverse. You can set up the environment to make a plant 'want' to be female instead. Supercrop, run blue lights in veg, long nights, cool days, no wind, low stress and other factors. Short, squant, bushy plants with many many growth tips are the result. These plants 'realize' that with zillions of growth tips close to the ground and no wind going on their best chance to have lots of sex is to form tons and tons of bud locations to get pollinated by a nearby male.
Its a classic nature vs. nurture scenario. Genetics certainly count, fem seeds go female much more often than normal seeds, but unless you are using clones then you need to mind your grow-space and make the environment suitible for female plants. If you ask me, nurture beats nature in this case. I've got 5 plants going from totally mixed, totally genetically different seeds. Every single one of them is going female. Give me any seed you want and I can do it over and over again with 100% predictibility. That is the power of environmental control, it should be getting more respect around here.
Riboflavin
Member
Thanks for the advice everyone!
Today is day 6 since they broke the surface. Does super-cropping really effect sex?
Today is day 6 since they broke the surface. Does super-cropping really effect sex?
LadyLargely
Member
You're right, no, it won't.
And blowing on the plants won't turn them male. No one single environmental factor can possibly be enough to sway it one way or another in any meaningful way!
My whole interjection is based on the idea of environmental control affecting the outcome of sex.
Its really old and very accepted cannabis-growing rules like maintaining a dark night and 'low stress' are needed to keep from effecting sexing in a bad way: getting unwanted males or hermies.
This is sortof an introduction to careful control of the plants' environment (which, let's face it, is sortof the point of growing indoors anyway) being used to impact their long-term development. Super-cropping will not turn a plant female, but it is a useful tool for shaping the impact of the plant's surroundings on it! In this case, getting much more direct light on many more growth tips! Surely this is the point of the desirable stout, sturdy, bushy growth which is generally desirable in veg!!
Delve into advanced ganja-growing like the the teachings of the Dutch Passion fellows and you find good evidence for a strong link between techniques for veging a good plant to flower and getting a favorable female/male ratio!
Right there, amongst the literature that promotes the sale of their feminized seeds, the DP guys mention the loophole in their feminization process and put their scientific weight behind the idea that environmental control is a major part of the sexing process.
There is much evidence to suggest that you can take their findings even further. Control of air currents and a training regime (such as supercropping although there are pleanty of alternatives like LST) to create many directly-lit tops without cutting the plant will also help to shift the odds in your favor.
What I'm saying is that there is no single solution. Gardeners working with seed need to aware of all the factors responsible for influencing sex. It takes much more than employing a single technique like supercropping to make a big difference.
But my thing with the fan is that its an easy influence to change. Negative pressure evacuation is the preferred ventilation method for efficiency and smell-control anyway! And many people here have mentioned you can use normal room fans to prevent stale air and make a nice lamp-cooling current without creating a strong current which blows the plants around causing them to twitch constantly. While going to the trouble to keep a high nitrogen ratio through veg and train for many tops doing this is mega-simple in comparison!
Sorry man, but this is a real phenomenon and as a gardener who leans very heavily upon it I'm trying to raise awareness of it! You clone-started salt-hydro maniacs carry on with your business as usual but seed-started gardeners could really benefit from this!
And blowing on the plants won't turn them male. No one single environmental factor can possibly be enough to sway it one way or another in any meaningful way!
My whole interjection is based on the idea of environmental control affecting the outcome of sex.
Its really old and very accepted cannabis-growing rules like maintaining a dark night and 'low stress' are needed to keep from effecting sexing in a bad way: getting unwanted males or hermies.
This is sortof an introduction to careful control of the plants' environment (which, let's face it, is sortof the point of growing indoors anyway) being used to impact their long-term development. Super-cropping will not turn a plant female, but it is a useful tool for shaping the impact of the plant's surroundings on it! In this case, getting much more direct light on many more growth tips! Surely this is the point of the desirable stout, sturdy, bushy growth which is generally desirable in veg!!
Delve into advanced ganja-growing like the the teachings of the Dutch Passion fellows and you find good evidence for a strong link between techniques for veging a good plant to flower and getting a favorable female/male ratio!
Dutch Passion Website said:
Right there, amongst the literature that promotes the sale of their feminized seeds, the DP guys mention the loophole in their feminization process and put their scientific weight behind the idea that environmental control is a major part of the sexing process.
There is much evidence to suggest that you can take their findings even further. Control of air currents and a training regime (such as supercropping although there are pleanty of alternatives like LST) to create many directly-lit tops without cutting the plant will also help to shift the odds in your favor.
What I'm saying is that there is no single solution. Gardeners working with seed need to aware of all the factors responsible for influencing sex. It takes much more than employing a single technique like supercropping to make a big difference.
But my thing with the fan is that its an easy influence to change. Negative pressure evacuation is the preferred ventilation method for efficiency and smell-control anyway! And many people here have mentioned you can use normal room fans to prevent stale air and make a nice lamp-cooling current without creating a strong current which blows the plants around causing them to twitch constantly. While going to the trouble to keep a high nitrogen ratio through veg and train for many tops doing this is mega-simple in comparison!
Sorry man, but this is a real phenomenon and as a gardener who leans very heavily upon it I'm trying to raise awareness of it! You clone-started salt-hydro maniacs carry on with your business as usual but seed-started gardeners could really benefit from this!
I dont have any knowledge in this area, but the wind statement just seems outlandish, and flawed. Wouldn't the wind have the same effect in sense of sexing for females(meaning it has no effect at all)? If a female was grown in a windy environment, wouldn't it be more succeptable to pollination as opposed to females without the breeze? Maybe air circulation is just stimulating period? Just thoughts.
That is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. You will not turn a seed male because of environmental factors. You can have a female plant go hermi due to stress, but it's still a female plant.
According to you, my exact vegging method should be giving me a high male ratio, but it just doesn't happen. I always have a good ratio.
A stressed female plant will turn hermi, yes. But it won't effect the ultimate sex of a seed, that's in the genes, and I'm sorry, you're not tweaking DNA with your fan.
According to you, my exact vegging method should be giving me a high male ratio, but it just doesn't happen. I always have a good ratio.
A stressed female plant will turn hermi, yes. But it won't effect the ultimate sex of a seed, that's in the genes, and I'm sorry, you're not tweaking DNA with your fan.
yea dont listen to me listen to the more advanced growers i guess the 10 seed 5 each of 2 strains i grow along side my clones dont count. and ifn i didnt grow from seed guess i wouldnt have made 28 polybrid crosses of med strainsThat's some fine advice for someone growing from clones. Clones are genetic copies of their mothers and will end up just like them unless you seriously fuck something up.
However, I don't think you should be giving your advice to someone who is growing from seed.
Seed-started plants are very impressionable, the kind of environment they develop in can have a massive impact on whether they go male or female. Having a fan constantly blowing on them from a young age is an environmental factor that will push them very hard towards being MALE.
Among all the environmental factors that can cause males; topping, high potassium to nitrogen ratio during veg, warm color temps, short nights, high temperatures, etc. the worst of them all is blowing them with a strong, constant breeze. Cannabis is a smart plant, it makes 'observations' about its environment and then changes it's chemistry to suit. Some of you Icmag gardeners seem to grow cannabis in the perfect conditions for making males.
Tall, thin, spindly plants vegged with very long days (or 24 hour light), possibly tipped or fimed under orange lamps with a fan constantly blowing on them. This is just begging a seed-started plant to go MALE!!
Cannabis is a plant, a plant that came from nature. Plants in nature behave according to their evolutionary imperative: reproduce themselves. A cannabis plant's goal is to swap genetic material with as many other cannabis plants as possible. Just like us, they want to fuck everyone!
You grow a skinny plant that is constantly under a stiff breeze and its gonna realize that. Its gonna realize the best way for it to fuck lots of other plants is to go male. If it goes male its lonely top cola waaaaaay up at the top of this skinny 4-5 foot tall plant it is in the perfect situation to spread pollen. It thinks its living in a valley or near the sea with a constant wind going on. It thinks that shit is gonna carry its pollen for MILES. Of course it goes male!
The wonderful thing is though, it works in reverse. You can set up the environment to make a plant 'want' to be female instead. Supercrop, run blue lights in veg, long nights, cool days, no wind, low stress and other factors. Short, squant, bushy plants with many many growth tips are the result. These plants 'realize' that with zillions of growth tips close to the ground and no wind going on their best chance to have lots of sex is to form tons and tons of bud locations to get pollinated by a nearby male.
Its a classic nature vs. nurture scenario. Genetics certainly count, fem seeds go female much more often than normal seeds, but unless you are using clones then you need to mind your grow-space and make the environment suitible for female plants. If you ask me, nurture beats nature in this case. I've got 5 plants going from totally mixed, totally genetically different seeds. Every single one of them is going female. Give me any seed you want and I can do it over and over again with 100% predictibility. That is the power of environmental control, it should be getting more respect around here.
heres the current from seed 4/5 sprouted all 4 female
@ 19 days of 12/12 flowering strain is Puna Bomb {puna butter[fm] x cherry tie[m]} thx daflynhawian. the plants in above pic started as i stated above
heres some of the other strains from seed i've growen or still have to grow out
headhunter {SFV x Whitemustang} thx Jaws
evenflow {abussive og x whitemustang} thx Jaws
decapation { bubba kush x whitemustang } thx Jaws
memoryloss {urkel x strawberry desiel} thx Jaws
whirlybird {cherry ak47 x strawberry desiel} thx Jaws
Deep Chunk {100% afaghani} thx Teresa
Bite Me {Sweet Tooth x Afgani} thx Teresa
Mississippi Mudd F2 {moutain jam F2 x G13 F2} thx Teresa
MemoryLoss F2 {urkel x strawberry desiel} thx Teresa
kaua'i kush {"Abusive's OG Kush" x Maui Wowie } thx Teresa
super G {TRCs Gold Monkey(Santa Marta Gold x Blockhead) x Love Potion
lovepotion f2} thx Teresa
bogs rainbow {bogs medly x rainbow #4} thx scrappy
White Rainbow....aka..White Widow(F)x Rainbow#4 thx scrappy
postmaster { gypsys gum x rainbow #4} thx scrappy
Grandaddy Purple { purple urkle X big bud }
sugar shack thx Sirsmokealot
Grape Krush thx Sirsmokealot
Schroom thx Sirsmokealot and brotha G
Baby Shit smells like it so tis what we call it smells like poop de doop we got few yrs ago thx Sirsmokealot
Hash plant thx Sir
SDv2.5[3 x (PB x WW)..= Pollen Chuck thx core
Mongrul = PB x WW x PB ..PB being purple bastard thx core
Amneasia Haze thx core
lavender { skunk #1 x korean big bud x hawain} thx brotha G
some ppl may not know whats whitemustang is {White Mustang is chemdawg x (Westcaost DOG Bx3 male)}
Ghost OG x Trainwreck - TXthethird
Shoreline x Trainwreck - TXthethird
Schroom x Sour Desiel - Knucklehead.
Cherry AK47 thx Jaws
VBS Jaws
5 lavender x sweet widow lavender thx brotha Jaws
5 afghan berries thx brotha Jaws
5 blue mistic x purple bastard thx brotha Jaws
5 A.Shark x ice thx brotha Jaws
5 lavender x kodiak gold thx brotha Jaws
Puna Bomb = {puna butter x cherry tie} thx daflynhawian
Hawian Durban thx daflynhawian
and these are some the crosses i've made so far
sugar shack x evenflow = Evac
lavender x evenflow = Mr.Ed
memoryloss {urkel pheno} x evenflow = Azurite
evenflow x evenflow = evenflow F2
GDP x evenflow = ole man river
Super G x EvenFlow = Pangia less then 10 seed
Decapation xEvenFlow = Cornicopia less then 10 seed
Memoryloss Strawberry desiel pheno x Headhunter = Angels Breath
Decapation x Headhunter = Hangman
MemoryLoss Urkel pheno x Headhunter = Malichite
Lavender x Headhunter = Lost Horse
GDP xHeadhunter = Equinox
Kaua'i kush F3's 3 phenos tall tall/phatty short
memoryloss urkel pheno x kaua'i kush F2 = Pandora
memoryloss strawberry desiel pheno x Kaua'i kush F2 = G-Force
GDP x Kaua'i kush F2 = Singing Bear
sugar shack x kaua'i kush F2 = Scorpion
decap x kaua'i kush F2 = Route 66
yepper i have no idea what i'm talkn about eh to the original poster you can listen to doubting daniel or me and the rest of us who use small fans for air circulation on seedlings.
choice is yours buddy
LadyLargely
Member
*facepalm*
Surely the most experienced gardener in this thread is completely missing the point.
If you had read to understand what I'm talking about instead of just responding with your little "my-cannabis-cock-is-bigger-than-your-cannabis-cock" response you would have realized how silly you are being.
You're a good gardener Maj. PotHead, and as a good gardener you clearly do a lot of things to veg good plants. You'll notice that I've not been saying using a fan/not using a fan is the only factor in getting males or females. My argument is that there is a long list of factors that can influence sex. You blow your seed-started plants with a fan, which I argue is a factor which can contribute to males. However, if to those same plants you do all the other things that will help them be female (dense, healthy growth, good temps, good humidity, good light color, etc.) then you are gonna end up with girls anyway!
Your skill as a gardener means you wind up with lots of ladies because you are, inadvertently it seems, setting them up with many factors that girls like. Running a fan on them is not enough to override alllll those other things you do.
You must get what I'm on about here. I mean, you got 4 out of 4 girls! If sex where truly pre-determined by genetics and nothing else then don't those odds seem a little weird to you? Sit down and flip a coin four times in a row, you come and tell me first time you can get all heads on your first attempt without flipping hundreds of times in a row. That means you sit down and flip the coin 4 times and 4 times only and get all heads. If you don't, put it down and try again tomorrow. My money would be on it taking a loooooooong time to find success.
You really think you getting 4/4 ladies was coincidence? It wasn't, it was the environment you set up for them to live in. We may not agree on constant fan-blowing contributing to males, but whether you like it or not we both operate on the principal that a change in environment can cause a change in the sex of cannabis
Surely the most experienced gardener in this thread is completely missing the point.
If you had read to understand what I'm talking about instead of just responding with your little "my-cannabis-cock-is-bigger-than-your-cannabis-cock" response you would have realized how silly you are being.
You're a good gardener Maj. PotHead, and as a good gardener you clearly do a lot of things to veg good plants. You'll notice that I've not been saying using a fan/not using a fan is the only factor in getting males or females. My argument is that there is a long list of factors that can influence sex. You blow your seed-started plants with a fan, which I argue is a factor which can contribute to males. However, if to those same plants you do all the other things that will help them be female (dense, healthy growth, good temps, good humidity, good light color, etc.) then you are gonna end up with girls anyway!
Your skill as a gardener means you wind up with lots of ladies because you are, inadvertently it seems, setting them up with many factors that girls like. Running a fan on them is not enough to override alllll those other things you do.
You must get what I'm on about here. I mean, you got 4 out of 4 girls! If sex where truly pre-determined by genetics and nothing else then don't those odds seem a little weird to you? Sit down and flip a coin four times in a row, you come and tell me first time you can get all heads on your first attempt without flipping hundreds of times in a row. That means you sit down and flip the coin 4 times and 4 times only and get all heads. If you don't, put it down and try again tomorrow. My money would be on it taking a loooooooong time to find success.
You really think you getting 4/4 ladies was coincidence? It wasn't, it was the environment you set up for them to live in. We may not agree on constant fan-blowing contributing to males, but whether you like it or not we both operate on the principal that a change in environment can cause a change in the sex of cannabis
Actually, I've had that situation a few times. Also had runs in the exact same environment pop out a standard split. Had runs in the same environment pop out 5 for 5 male (that'll piss you off 
).
Genetics are genetics, and only those hardwired, unchangeable DNA strings determine sex, just like in every other living thing on this planet. Stress determines the quality, not the sex.
).Genetics are genetics, and only those hardwired, unchangeable DNA strings determine sex, just like in every other living thing on this planet. Stress determines the quality, not the sex.
