K
Kelly.
....
Actually, all you need is a $5 pH kit from the aquarium store. I've got a Bluelab EC Truncheon and I love it but, truth is, it's a $130 stir stick these days. I'm about 6 weeks into my current grow and haven't measured EC once. All nute adjustments have been determined through pH readings.
Note there's no such thing as a PPM or TDS meter. Determining PPM and TDS requires chemical analysis that meters are incapable of. Meters measure EC only. The EC meter will display EC. A PPM or TDS meter will measure EC and then hide the answer swapping it out for nonsense, bullshit and outright lies. You garden doesn't care, it's illiterate. If you can track numbers up or down, you can run a garden. It's conversation that's impossible until all PPM and TDS blather is reconverted to EC.
If you go with the $5 aquarium pH kit, then the EC meter is essentially "half price." I did serious homework on pH/EC pens/meters and found them to be a crapshoot at best with one exception: The Bluelab EC truncheon. It's the only one I'd recommend.
Note there's no such thing as a PPM or TDS meter. Determining PPM and TDS requires chemical analysis that meters are incapable of. Meters measure EC only. The EC meter will display EC. A PPM or TDS meter will measure EC and then hide the answer swapping it out for nonsense, bullshit and outright lies. You garden doesn't care, it's illiterate. If you can track numbers up or down, you can run a garden. It's conversation that's impossible until all PPM and TDS blather is reconverted to EC.
If you go with the $5 aquarium pH kit, then the EC meter is essentially "half price." I did serious homework on pH/EC pens/meters and found them to be a crapshoot at best with one exception: The Bluelab EC truncheon. It's the only one I'd recommend.
You don't have to spend much for a decent tds meter. Once you familiarize yourself with your particular water strength and measured adds, you'll probably use those measured amounts to determine strength more than the meter IMO. A few months into growing and the TDS meter will be the least used investment in yer shed. (periodic maintenance/calibration required)
A pH meter is a totally different animal. You MUST follow the mfgs suggested maintenance procedures to keep the meter from crapping out in a hurry. Even when maintained well, most pH meters are quirky. Quirky can mess up yer grow when it comes to reading pH. They have to be calibrated frequently and you just never know when the thing gives you a shit reading until your plant shows it. Drops or strips are a great backup and some like them much better than a meter. If you get a meter, pick up these solutions with it:
Calibration solution(s)
Storage solution (if required)
Cleaning solution
A properly working pH meter is only as good as it's recommended maintenance program (and a fail-proof backup used occasionally to verify accuracy, ie drops/strips) pH Meters are just handier than alternatives. That said, a pH meter can go to south on you in a NY minute.
A pH meter is a totally different animal. You MUST follow the mfgs suggested maintenance procedures to keep the meter from crapping out in a hurry. Even when maintained well, most pH meters are quirky. Quirky can mess up yer grow when it comes to reading pH. They have to be calibrated frequently and you just never know when the thing gives you a shit reading until your plant shows it. Drops or strips are a great backup and some like them much better than a meter. If you get a meter, pick up these solutions with it:
Calibration solution(s)
Storage solution (if required)
Cleaning solution
A properly working pH meter is only as good as it's recommended maintenance program (and a fail-proof backup used occasionally to verify accuracy, ie drops/strips) pH Meters are just handier than alternatives. That said, a pH meter can go to south on you in a NY minute.
He's talking about a hannah meter. Oakton meters are not fussy and last just fine. THey read slowly rather than inaccurately as the sensor ages.
Its not a tool you generally need, as its a fallacy to simply bump the tds back to where it was as if the plant took everything out evenly.
Its a good diagnostic tool if you take a reading every day and know which direction the numbers are swinging. but don't get hung up on the raw numbers.
Its not a tool you generally need, as its a fallacy to simply bump the tds back to where it was as if the plant took everything out evenly.
Its a good diagnostic tool if you take a reading every day and know which direction the numbers are swinging. but don't get hung up on the raw numbers.
K
Kelly.
....
I believe that's for soil only.
Good thread. I have some fish tanks too, and the standard drops only measure between 6 and 7.8 or so.
Given that we aim for a Ph range in the mid-5's, how are we meant to test for this using drops? Does anyone know if there are drops measuring a lower range? And if so, where can I get them?
Because I have a Ph meter that I know doesn't work - I know the drops are accurate.
By the way, I have bluelab truncheon and love it. Great for soil grows. Pity it doesn't test Ph. There's not a parallet between Ph and EC is there? Wish there was!
Thanks in advance.
Given that we aim for a Ph range in the mid-5's, how are we meant to test for this using drops? Does anyone know if there are drops measuring a lower range? And if so, where can I get them?
Because I have a Ph meter that I know doesn't work - I know the drops are accurate.
By the way, I have bluelab truncheon and love it. Great for soil grows. Pity it doesn't test Ph. There's not a parallet between Ph and EC is there? Wish there was!
Thanks in advance.
rabid
Member
If you have the $$$ and want a portable combo meter I recommend Hanna # 98129. I've tried to take care of mine but it's suffered some abuse and is still accurate & dependable after 18 months. The absolute cheapest place to get them is:
http://www.sunstoneherbals.com/hanna_combo_ph_ec_tds_temp_waterproof_tester_hi98129.htm
I have a Hanna pH Checker and a Bluelab Truncheon (Ebay copy-$29.99) for backup and they seem to be accurate when compared to the Hanna combo...
http://www.sunstoneherbals.com/hanna_combo_ph_ec_tds_temp_waterproof_tester_hi98129.htm
I have a Hanna pH Checker and a Bluelab Truncheon (Ebay copy-$29.99) for backup and they seem to be accurate when compared to the Hanna combo...
O
ogatec
just get what you have $$ for..ph drops work great for cheap, & just get whatever tds meter you can afford & upgrade to quality equpment after a few harvests. most cheapy meters last 6 months to a year, which is good enough to get you through a couple of rounds.
btw that ph checker 1 is for hydro, but dont expect much out of it.
btw that ph checker 1 is for hydro, but dont expect much out of it.
It's sold at "igrowhydro." That would suggest it's for liquid. This is about the bottom wrung of the ladder.
If you:
don't drop it
clean it like the mfg recommends
store it like the mfg recommends
calibrate regularly
it will still get sketchy on occasion. If you don't do the above, you might as well throw it in the trash as soon as you get it home.
If you're careful and think about what you're doing you can avoid these sketchy readings. It's also good to have a drop/litmus strip kit to back up your stats.
EDIT: This isn't a butt plug, you have to use it intuitively.
We already know ferts lowers overall pH. If the meter indicates otherwise, it's an indication the meter needs to be cleaned, calibrated or possibly replaced. I've got one and it worked for about 18 months, with more than a few aggravating moments along the way. Not as aggravating as the drops IMO.
oakton pH2:
keep it clean, wet, and calibrated.
before they made the ph2 i had the previous model for years (4) of accuracy. ph2 is superior to the older model because the cap is clear, so you can see how much liquid is left to moisten the probe tip, and it stands up straight.
as for ppm/tds/ec meters most will work with minimal calibration (or none) to give you a ballpark of what you're feeding the plants, unless your feed is organic. do learn about the difference in ec conversion (.5, .64, or .7), so you can figure out your true ec if the meter doesn't show it. I've got the blue hanna stick meter and an oakton that cost more to do the same dang thing..... i'd go with hanna if cost is an issue.
keep it clean, wet, and calibrated.
before they made the ph2 i had the previous model for years (4) of accuracy. ph2 is superior to the older model because the cap is clear, so you can see how much liquid is left to moisten the probe tip, and it stands up straight.
as for ppm/tds/ec meters most will work with minimal calibration (or none) to give you a ballpark of what you're feeding the plants, unless your feed is organic. do learn about the difference in ec conversion (.5, .64, or .7), so you can figure out your true ec if the meter doesn't show it. I've got the blue hanna stick meter and an oakton that cost more to do the same dang thing..... i'd go with hanna if cost is an issue.
JohnnyToke
Member
I use Oakton PH & TDS meters as well. They work well and last for a long time if taken care of properly.
I calibrate the PH weekly and TDS monthly.
I store PH meter in clean tap water after each use. I rinse the TDS in clean ro/di water and sling dry after each use.
JT
I calibrate the PH weekly and TDS monthly.
I store PH meter in clean tap water after each use. I rinse the TDS in clean ro/di water and sling dry after each use.
JT
By testing one gallon of water, adding 0.1 ml pH down and retesting, I now know that 0.1ml pH Down will drop MY waters pH by 0.7. I work the rest out from there. They make drops with a wider range but color charts are whole numbers: this color is 4, this 5, this 6, as opposed to this color is 6.2, this 6.4 this 6.6.
Bluelab makes a pH Truncheon. DON'T BUY IT! If pens are a crapshoot, the bluelab pH truncheon is simply crap.
I don't know if this is what you meant by "parallel" but EC and pH are certainly connected in that they (should) move in opposite directions which is how I can use pH to measure nute strength. EC down, pH up - too lean; Drinking nutes faster than water (removal of nute acids cause pH to rise) EC up, pH down - too rich; Drinking water faster than nutes (concentration of nute acids cause pH to drop)
The Dragnet rule is: feed in the direction of pH. pH lowers, lower your nutes. pH rises, raise your nutes.
L
lysol
Why do you say the truncheon PH is a crapshoot? I was thinking about getting it when my milawauke pen bites the test ( I say when because I dont have a lot of faith in it but it seems to work ok. Have to calibrate at least 1x a week and sometimes it doesnt wanna turn out until u jostle the battery pack ).
If you get a PH pen keep the drops as a backup, if your PH looks like its fluctuating revert to the drops. the pen is best cuz it goes to x 0.1 accuracy but drops cant become uncalibrated.
I would not feed based on PH unless you know for a fact your PH is stable. Especially with water changes causing fluctuations for 24hrs, I am new and I make heavy use of both pens 2x a day for each bucket, 1x at morning 1x at night to make sure its staying in the right range.
I use the truncheon blue lab tds meter
If you get a PH pen keep the drops as a backup, if your PH looks like its fluctuating revert to the drops. the pen is best cuz it goes to x 0.1 accuracy but drops cant become uncalibrated.
I would not feed based on PH unless you know for a fact your PH is stable. Especially with water changes causing fluctuations for 24hrs, I am new and I make heavy use of both pens 2x a day for each bucket, 1x at morning 1x at night to make sure its staying in the right range.
I use the truncheon blue lab tds meter
I failed to do due diligence during the Great Fan Debacle of '08. $300 down the tubes for nuthin! I did my due diligence on pH pens and determined they're untrustworthy toys . Oakton was the least craptastic, followed by Milwaukee and Hanna scraped the underside of the bottom of the barrel. The only thing more reviled than any given Hanna was the Bluelab pH truncheon.
According to actual users, the pH truncheon is as universally despised as the EC truncheon is beloved and trusted. Some with models over 5 years old spoke up for them but, the consensus was Bluelab changed ... something ... in the new models. My study was done nearly two years ago now. Maybe things have changed. Drops are accurate to 0.1; I'll trust a $5 test drop kit over any digital unit costing less than $1,000.00.
smalltymer
Member
where can i get drops that accurate? i would feel alot better testing with drops that accurate than my ph pen.
Any Aquarium store. Color charts are in increments of 0.2. If it's not the top color and it's not the bottom color, it's the "color" in between.
Treetops
Active member
Kelly,
This is what I have found works well, and is inexpensive.
Its easy to use, and gives you rez temps as well...KISS is my motto...
Peace,
Treetops
http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-Pocket-TDS-4-Quality/dp/B0002T6L5M
This is what I have found works well, and is inexpensive.
Its easy to use, and gives you rez temps as well...KISS is my motto...
Peace,
Treetops
http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-Pocket-TDS-4-Quality/dp/B0002T6L5M
L
lysol
Your eyesight must have really good contrast, to me I almost cant tell the difference between the 2 adjacent colors on the drop chart. As long as you order the calibration fluid I think you will be good though
K
Kelly.
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