The Haze Hybrid Thread

RobertFripp said:

Just bought 6 packs of AKBeanBrains original early 90s Sensi NL5 x Haze and plan to do a pheno hunt out of 72 seeds. All of them came up, so if I get 50/50 M/F ratio that will give me 36 females to choose from. Id like to have more, but thats all I can do for now.

Ive been smoking weed since 1967, and have seen alot of weed. The best stuff Ive seen for modern cannabis cultivation was in the early 90s and was a hybrid of some early 90s Sensi NL5 x Haze x Nevils Hashplant x Sk1. Id say the Hashplant was actually Sensi Hashplant, but they got those genetics from Nevil when he sold the company.

I also got 3 packs of a LTD release from Crickets and Cicada PNWHP X Puck Hashplant BC1. 30 seeds, all of them came up. The Puck is also known as Skelly, and was found in 1989 from Nevils Hashplant. Nevis HP was a cross of the Pacific Northwest Hashplant Female x PNWHP X NL1 Male BC1. I wanted the Puck BC2 but there was such a fight to get them from 3-4 different seed banks, the servers failed. I was lucky to get 1 pack each of the PNWWHP x Puck BC1 from 3 different seed banks on different days.

I also got 2 packs of Authentic Genetics Sk1 that came from Mel Frank and have only been bred 2 times since 1988, so these also havent had the crap bred out of them.

Im going to try and recreate th genetics I had in the 90s. Mine got taken by the feds. My partner ratted me out because he got caught with 500 clones I gave him to put on his 2000 acre farm, and then when they came after me I had about 750 more. I got charged fior manufacturing all of them and spent a total of 12 years with the feds. 7 years in federal prison, and 5 years supervised release. Ive been out since 2009.
Ive looked, and looked and bought at least $15,000 worth of seeds since 2009, and havent come close to anything like my old hybrid. And this includes a verified Chem91 Skva clone, and not an S1 either. I did lso give a buddy some good clones for mothers before I got busted, and he still has them. A pre 2000 AK47, a Pre 2000 NL5, and a cross of the AK47 x NL5. Ive also got a 2005 mother of Willie Nelson as well as a Male of the Willie, a nd the Male AK47 I used for the cross. My buddy preserved all of these, and I got them back after I got off of supervised release. I bouth the Willie seeds, and he phen hunted and kept the best female, and male out of 4 packs. We also have a Mr Nice Super Silver Haze, and he F2 2 packs, and went through 250 females to find the best one. It tool a year and a half to do that. Hes now had it for 10 years. And he also has a mothr of Dominion Seed Company Local Skunk, Dominion SSkunk, and Granny Skunk. I buy the seeds, and he pheno hunts, and keeps the best male(s) and female. A couple strains he kept 3-4 males from, and bred a few branches with pollen from 3-4 males, and then revegged the males, grew out the seeds to find out which male threw the best pairing, and then tossed the other 2-3.. Males are as important, and as hard to find as a good female. Maybe harder.

But my NL5 x Haze x Hashplant x Sk1 was so good some people thought I put PCP in it. It would make alot of people super paranoid for hours, and made some people really sick, and dizzy for 3-5 hours. Ive seen people also get severe gastrointestional distress from it. Like almost crapping all over themselves. One of my friends ex girlfriends is still mad at me 26 years later because she swore I put PCP in it. Said thre was no way weed was that strong. She say by the toilet for 3 hours dry heaving, and paranoid..... Alopt of that is because if you hadnt eaten, it would drive your blood sugar into the ground, and kep it there for hours. It would also choke your brains out. Every hit was lungbuster, and was not safe to drive on. If you tried to hold a hit, it could make you lose your vision for 5-6 seconds, and then you would be coughing so hard you though youd get a hernia, or bust a gut.
When I got these genetics given to me. 10 seeds. When I smoked the finished product, it was the best stuff I had seen since the early 70s. Including vietnam Black, Sensi Santa Marta Gold, Oaxacan, Acapulco Gold, Panama Red. This stuff would compare with any of it. It also reeked of catpiss, and honeysuckle. It tasted like the best Nepali temple Balls, and was extremely floral. One time a buddy and I rented a house in 1993, and you could smell it all the way out in the street.


If I could ever recreate the powr, and the tase of that stuff, Id never need another strain again. I grew that strain from 1991-1997, and never got burned out on it, nor did I look for anyhting else just for variety. I had found my holy grail.

I plan on finding the best NL5 x Haze Female, and this year will breed 3-4 of the PNWHP/Puck/BC1 Males, to several Female Sk1 branches, and then next outdoor season breed the Male HP/Sk1 into the NL5 x Haze female. I would also like to try, and dig the females, and males back up, and reveg them under 1-2 1000w HID.

I also got a pack each of the LTD Release Crickets and Cicaada Sensi Star x Puck HP BC1, and a Pack of Nepali x PuckHP BC1.

Also got 2 packs of the Pure 80s Haze that Mel Frank got back in the 80s. 2 Packs of original Seattle Gregs NL5, 2 packs Pre 2000 Sensi NL5 from AKBeanBrains, 2 packs of Seattle Gregs NL2. We plan on finding as many of the best pure Haze Females, and breeding the crap out of it with various different strains/Males. Id love to see how a Haze x PNWHP/Puck BC1 Male would pair with the Haze. Duke Diamond VA has also promised me some NL5 x Haze x Skelly Hashplant seeds as soon as theyre done, and before they go to market.

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Snow Goose said:

View attachment 18129854
African mango
African haze x mango a5
Topdawg

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Piff_cat said:

real nice loving the jagged leaves with yellow margins. cant go wrong with that piff smell and the african 11 is some of the best! well done

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JohnnyChicago said:

Animal Mints BX1 via Haze!

= Animal Mints F1 x (Animal Mints F1 x OT1OH#12)
View attachment 18129610

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Ncali said:

Well, I can tell you that the plants I have grown were no less or more exceptional than the plants without the trait. It is a mutation, I would reckon. But I don't suspect an "extra chromosome" lol.

The plants I have experienced similar mutations to yours have been highly inbred cannabis populations. I have seen it a lot in Haze and MOSTLY in dj short blueberry lines (f13, blueberry). But, when outcrossed to unrelated gene pools those same traits seem to disappear. This is why I suspect inbreeding plays a role in it.

But that's just my cannabis experience. It is anecdotal evidence. But, that's what you asked for I guess, haha! I'm far from an expert, many sagely heads lurk this thread and hopefully one of them will shed some knowledge and light for us both.

Enjoy the SMH, very frosty strong buds.

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Piff_cat said:

the mutation is caused by a change in dosage in 2 genes cuc1 and cuc2. these genes are responsible for differentiating between meristem and floral organs(fan leaf, cotyledon etc) it is heritable thru the mitochondria in the 69 haze male offspring cuban black haze and other 69 male progeny. it very often is accompanied by flower mutations like double flower or faciation. it also gets more pronounced when selfed the mutation in its first stages is not very noticable curved fan leaf digits are the first stage of the dosage change. seen here in mango haze/122. second generation is what you have here and also what cbh has. next step seen here in a cbh incross to brownhaze known as heart. the final stage, meaning all 4 grandparents carry it are dumbell shape with light green. have yet to find an example of stage 4.

now this mutation co occurs with additive terpene and cannabinoid traits which is how it is known to be a result of aneuploid. additive traits are seen when 2 plants are put together and the progenys level is equal to the sum of both parents.

guiaol in uptown black is a good example because it is rare but seen consistently at .03 level in cbh. both parents (cbh, brown haze) have .o3 guiaol while their progeny has .06. this holds true in other cases for additive cbga content and decarbed thc/cbg. stone gurus silk and silk s exemplify this phenomenon.

the reason for additive traits in an aneuploid is that the extra chromosome pieces keep adding up and as they do, they change the dosage of the transcribed gene within them. this is a very common occurrence in botany/horticulture.

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Occiput said:

Thanks for the input Ncali, I definitely want to hear about everyone's experience with this, anecdotal or not!

Piff, thanks for adding to the info you'd given me previously, the detail is much appreciated! Based on a little bit of research I've done, it looks like this would technically be called "gene duplication"? Do you know of any resources that give more info on duplication of the cuc1 and cuc2 genes in plants? I quickly googled it but didn't turn up much.

If I manage to get some viable clones off of this plant I'll have to give selfing a try.

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Identification of cup-shaped cotyledon: New Ways to Think about Organ Initiation

It is easy to obtain lots of data with modern sequencing techniques, but often the informative sequences are those that connect to a mutant phenotype; of the 40

academic.oup.com

RobertFripp said:

Just bought 6 packs of AKBeanBrains original early 90s Sensi NL5 x Haze and plan to do a pheno hunt out of 72 seeds. All of them came up, so if I get 50/50 M/F ratio that will give me 36 females to choose from. Id like to have more, but thats all I can do for now.

Ive been smoking weed since 1967, and have seen alot of weed. The best stuff Ive seen for modern cannabis cultivation was in the early 90s and was a hybrid of some early 90s Sensi NL5 x Haze x Nevils Hashplant x Sk1. Id say the Hashplant was actually Sensi Hashplant, but they got those genetics from Nevil when he sold the company.

I also got 3 packs of a LTD release from Crickets and Cicada PNWHP X Puck Hashplant BC1. 30 seeds, all of them came up. The Puck is also known as Skelly, and was found in 1989 from Nevils Hashplant. Nevis HP was a cross of the Pacific Northwest Hashplant Female x PNWHP X NL1 Male BC1. I wanted the Puck BC2 but there was such a fight to get them from 3-4 different seed banks, the servers failed. I was lucky to get 1 pack each of the PNWWHP x Puck BC1 from 3 different seed banks on different days.

I also got 2 packs of Authentic Genetics Sk1 that came from Mel Frank and have only been bred 2 times since 1988, so these also havent had the crap bred out of them.

Im going to try and recreate th genetics I had in the 90s. Mine got taken by the feds. My partner ratted me out because he got caught with 500 clones I gave him to put on his 2000 acre farm, and then when they came after me I had about 750 more. I got charged fior manufacturing all of them and spent a total of 12 years with the feds. 7 years in federal prison, and 5 years supervised release. Ive been out since 2009.
Ive looked, and looked and bought at least $15,000 worth of seeds since 2009, and havent come close to anything like my old hybrid. And this includes a verified Chem91 Skva clone, and not an S1 either. I did lso give a buddy some good clones for mothers before I got busted, and he still has them. A pre 2000 AK47, a Pre 2000 NL5, and a cross of the AK47 x NL5. Ive also got a 2005 mother of Willie Nelson as well as a Male of the Willie, a nd the Male AK47 I used for the cross. My buddy preserved all of these, and I got them back after I got off of supervised release. I bouth the Willie seeds, and he phen hunted and kept the best female, and male out of 4 packs. We also have a Mr Nice Super Silver Haze, and he F2 2 packs, and went through 250 females to find the best one. It tool a year and a half to do that. Hes now had it for 10 years. And he also has a mothr of Dominion Seed Company Local Skunk, Dominion SSkunk, and Granny Skunk. I buy the seeds, and he pheno hunts, and keeps the best male(s) and female. A couple strains he kept 3-4 males from, and bred a few branches with pollen from 3-4 males, and then revegged the males, grew out the seeds to find out which male threw the best pairing, and then tossed the other 2-3.. Males are as important, and as hard to find as a good female. Maybe harder.

But my NL5 x Haze x Hashplant x Sk1 was so good some people thought I put PCP in it. It would make alot of people super paranoid for hours, and made some people really sick, and dizzy for 3-5 hours. Ive seen people also get severe gastrointestional distress from it. Like almost crapping all over themselves. One of my friends ex girlfriends is still mad at me 26 years later because she swore I put PCP in it. Said thre was no way weed was that strong. She say by the toilet for 3 hours dry heaving, and paranoid..... Alopt of that is because if you hadnt eaten, it would drive your blood sugar into the ground, and kep it there for hours. It would also choke your brains out. Every hit was lungbuster, and was not safe to drive on. If you tried to hold a hit, it could make you lose your vision for 5-6 seconds, and then you would be coughing so hard you though youd get a hernia, or bust a gut.
When I got these genetics given to me. 10 seeds. When I smoked the finished product, it was the best stuff I had seen since the early 70s. Including vietnam Black, Sensi Santa Marta Gold, Oaxacan, Acapulco Gold, Panama Red. This stuff would compare with any of it. It also reeked of catpiss, and honeysuckle. It tasted like the best Nepali temple Balls, and was extremely floral. One time a buddy and I rented a house in 1993, and you could smell it all the way out in the street.


If I could ever recreate the powr, and the tase of that stuff, Id never need another strain again. I grew that strain from 1991-1997, and never got burned out on it, nor did I look for anyhting else just for variety. I had found my holy grail.

I plan on finding the best NL5 x Haze Female, and this year will breed 3-4 of the PNWHP/Puck/BC1 Males, to several Female Sk1 branches, and then next outdoor season breed the Male HP/Sk1 into the NL5 x Haze female. I would also like to try, and dig the females, and males back up, and reveg them under 1-2 1000w HID.

I also got a pack each of the LTD Release Crickets and Cicaada Sensi Star x Puck HP BC1, and a Pack of Nepali x PuckHP BC1.

Also got 2 packs of the Pure 80s Haze that Mel Frank got back in the 80s. 2 Packs of original Seattle Gregs NL5, 2 packs Pre 2000 Sensi NL5 from AKBeanBrains, 2 packs of Seattle Gregs NL2. We plan on finding as many of the best pure Haze Females, and breeding the crap out of it with various different strains/Males. Id love to see how a Haze x PNWHP/Puck BC1 Male would pair with the Haze. Duke Diamond VA has also promised me some NL5 x Haze x Skelly Hashplant seeds as soon as theyre done, and before they go to market.

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ojd said:

Ive been working with Nevil's grail project , the last work he made before he passed RIP . , i
Id love to send you 5-10 packs of any Nevil strain ( no log or anything needed) just to see if it compares to the old NL5 Haze X's you run from Nevil's early work and to any new seeds you have run since being out, or to the strains your about to do a hunt with.
Im a Haze Freak myself and base alot of my work over the last decade at my seed company Connoisseur Genetics around Haze.
If interested pm me here or dm me on Instagram
@connoisseurgenetics_official
Or pm me your email.

Either way sounds like some amazing strains you run back then and the Haze dom strain Effects sound like the famous old Nevil's Haze clone , defo interested in your findings so keep us updated with what you find from your projects wether pics or not.

Peace

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Piff_cat said:

the cuc1 and cuc2 paper uses a. thaliana as the case study. gene duplication is close to what is happening but the difference is that gene duplication doesnt change the dosage/balance while aneuploidy does. so gene duplication is the process polyploids go thru when the genome is doubled. this leads to larger cells larger organs bigger of everything but all still in the same ratio. it is a a state the plant can live in for ever. aneuploidy is a condition where the progenitors have extra chromosomes or pieces of chromosomes but not complete sets. this changes the dosage of genes unbalancing them.. like if someone jumped off a sew saw on one end. they are very similar but the part of aneuploidy that is more beneficial is the additive traits when selfing/inbreeding/line breeding. those extra pieces just keep piling up on each other making the dosage more and more extreme. heres some pics and the cuc paper

Identification of cup-shaped cotyledon: New Ways to Think about Organ Initiation

It is easy to obtain lots of data with modern sequencing techniques, but often the informative sequences are those that connect to a mutant phenotype; of the 40

academic.oup.com

View attachment 18130733

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elanius said:

Thai x Golli Haze (OHaze from 90's)

This plant has unique grow pattern, I dont think I have seen this before. She is completely asymmetrical, one side has long branch, the other side is short. Next node the opposite, very strange. Even the leaf blades are different to each other. Trait that should come from the Thai side. (I remember DJ Short talking about asymmetric Thai plants in his breeding). At few weeks of flowering I had to cut the plant in half, otherwise she would grow through the roof, insane vigor. Bending the stem just pissed her of and she reacted by doubling the stem volume at the spot. Even deforming the pot when I tried to anchor her that way. The stem smells like exotic creamy lemons and something chemical. Mix of terps from both parents I assume. The Thai mother is mystery in this case, but very exciting one it seems.

View attachment 18710348 View attachment 18710349 View attachment 18710350

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