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Shen Zhen Bava vs smilley

primobud

Member
You know I wouldn't miss this! For what it's worth I'd give them a good flush with water even if they're still damp. I don't think it's light or temp causing the problem. Good luck figuring it out.
 

smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
Insanity

Insanity

Einstein said that the definition of insanity was "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result". That's what I was doing last week with lowering the temps. I'm pleading "temporary insanity" and feel much better now, lol.

I took Smokin Joe's advice yesterday and raised the canopy temp to about 27C and raised the light to 30 inches. The girls started improving within hours. Here's a couple of pics from this morning.

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They're not perfect but look way better. Primobud, I am going to flush them and I'll foliar feed till I can get back on a regular feeding regime.

Here's a pic from my veg room (attached to flowering room). I run a 400 mh for veg and flower out 4 with a 360 conversion bulb. I've pulled as much as 160g of bud from there but typically average 120g. The room is under the stairs so only has a headroom of 50 inches.

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Smokin Joe

Humpin to please
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I came here to see you test a light not watch you chase 1 problem after the next lol. Glad they are improving for ya.
Give em a week or so to get adjusted to the light and then start dropping it down a few inches a day till around 18". I wouldn't let em get much closer to keep the light spread. Increase the n in your nutrients a little and make sure calcium is available. Those are the key things I learned when I started using led in veg.
 

smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
I swear Joe, it was temporary insanity! That's my story and I'm stickin to it. Really though, I've made every mistake there is, some repeatedly over my whole life so no reason to start changing now,eh? Some people think it's because I smoke too much weed but I know it's from not smoking enough. Hence the new light.

Thanks again Smokin Joe, you've put me on the right path and I'll be forever grateful. I'll do my best to keep you entertained and hopefully pull a record harvest from the space...

Buckeyebandit: That'll be the perfect space for your new 600's. Man, have they come a long way with grow tents. That thing is awesome, fill'er up and let's get ready to rumble.
 

Buckeyebandit

Active member
Smilley I'm also new to the LEDs so I plan to fill it up slowly. I'm here to learn and watch you do your thing with these lights. I hope smokin Joe keeps popping in to help you/ us out with the learning curve at least it is for me lol. nice change from the first pix to the last ones. I dimmed mine for a few days due to leaving town this week and giving them time to get used to the lights. Be checking in to see your progress.
 

smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
Sure Buckeye, I'll be your guinea pig, lol. Just watch what I do and you do the opposite. You'll be golden...:)
 

nickman

Active member
Veteran
I’ll be watching... I’m always trying to find ways to lower temps in my room, I think lights like these would be my answer...!!!...

But I’ll watch first for a while before I make any decisions...
this light fixture would be great to run in the summertime for me...

Good vibes ...
 

TnTLabs

Active member
yo smilley,
hope things are getting better, from what i can tell is that they look underfed... for sure lacking N.. like Joe mentioned... possibly P too, due to the purple stems, but could be the strain..
your vpd in check? instead of flush id hit em with a sprinkle of composted chicken manure, or calcium nitrate even...
what medium you using? soil, perlite mix by the look of it
and yeah temp around 26 min daytime..
good luck
 

smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
Hi TnT. First of all, things are looking better, thanks for asking. What I believe happened was they went from their happy little 400mh (about 24 in above) to 22 inches under the qb's. Way too close for the transition. Adding to my insanity I decided I needed to get the temps down to 22C. The girls stopped growing and stopped taking up moisture, probably the stomatas closed right up and the leafs were feeding nitrogen instead of storing it. In short, a combination of too much intensity and too chilly.

I decided not to flush in the end as I had treated the plants for fungus gnats with H2O2 two of the previous 3 waterings so they were already low on nutes but not starved. By the way, fungus gnats gone, with extreme prejudice. So, to add to my environmental issues I was lacking in nutes as well. That's how I see it.

Anyway, I f**cked them up pretty good and stressed the shit out of them. A wasted week of veg and it looks like they'll take all this week to recover.

Here's a pic from today, they're all showing improvement and I have fed all but two since my last post. We'll discuss nutes later.

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This is a Blueberry
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This is a C99
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This is a Purple Kush x Blueberry
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smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
To me, the purple stems are indicative of stress with the exception of the PK x BB. But even the PK x BB are too purple. You can see the BB stems are greening up nicely, the C99s are looking better and I expect their stems to green up gradually. This is my 3rd run with these specimens and 2nd clone crop. The PK x BB have given me fits. First two runs they had "THE CLAW" bad, but nice and dark green. This time, no claw yet but lime green instead, that shouldn't be their natural color, I made the seeds myself and I'm very familiar with the parents. Both previous crops of the PK x BB yielded well even with "the claw" and some premature yellowing. Probably my favorite tasting bud of the three.
 

smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
Lastly, here are sisters of the C99 and BB under the 400mh (2 days into flower). I rooted them 2 weeks after the other clones to keep them small as this room has headroom issues. They haven't been fed at all since the last dose of H2O2 but are happy, healthy and vigorous. I'll screw in the conversion bulb in about a week.

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gorilla ganja

Well-known member
I'm late to the party. Looking forward to see your results with the new LED and how it compares to HID.
Best of luck and may all your Buds be Huge.

Peace GG
 

smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
GG - Hey man, I hope things went good for you last summer, as you can see I'm back in the basement. Welcome to my nightmare, lol.

TnT- I just looked up VPD, I'd never heard of it but of course I've lived a sheltered life. I'm looking into it and I'm really interested now that I don't have to run the exhaust full bore. Here's the first thread I found and it's really interesting. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=331510
 
R

rastafari80

I'd start training them, just saying...
btw I contacted the same le supplier [shenze bava] and figuring out witch is the best option for a 3x3 tent....
 

smilley

Well-known member
Veteran
VPD

VPD

The following quote is from this thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=311661


By kowhite
"Lets talk about VPD...it's worth the converstion.
Plenty of info available about this already and I've done a bit of research but I haven't seen much activity on any recent threads about it but I found it to be an extremely interesting subject so I figured I'd revamp the conversation.

As RH goes down and temps go up VPD increases...the air's ability to absorb water and cause evaporation increases. Too high of a VPD and plants respond to the potential of excess water loss by closing their stomata and curling up their leaves. Which in in effect does significantly slow the rate of transpiration but.....Closed stomata also decreases the plants ability to absorb a sufficient amount of CO2, which is needed for plant growth and curled leaves reduce the amount of surface area exposed to light, both negatively affecting the rate of photosynthesis that occurs within the plant. Essentially air with a high VPD causes the plants to respond to a stressor in a way that only causes further problems....bad news it is.

As RH goes up and temps go down VPD decreases...the air's ability to absorb water and cause evaporation decreases. Too low a VPD and the plants ability to transpire is greatly reduced inhibiting its ability to absorb nutrients up from its roots. When a plant is not able to transpire, and is coupled with a saturated root zone brought about by decreased absorption of water through it's roots, pressure can build up to the point that water is forced out through the leaves in a process called guttation. This in addition to the likely event, in this particular case, that dew has formed as the excess water vapor in the air condenses into liquid, creates an ideal environment suitable for all kinds of nasty little microbial life to invest your plants. Not to mention that despite the fact that a plant responds to elevated levels of humidity by opening its stomata, in turn, increasing CO2 absorption, the plant lacks adequate levels of certain vital nutrients needed to utilize this excess CO2 to it's advantage due to it's low rate of transpiration.

Finding the proper VPD (balance between temp and RH) allows for sufficient transpiration to occur within the plant, thus allowing for adequate nutrient absorption through the roots, and also allowing for sufficient CO2 absorption from the air via the plants stomata. Ideally temps and RH at higher values that are balanced to create a beneficial VPD are most effective in producing optimal levels of these two elements of plant growth.

The greater the temperature the greater the airs ability to hold water and cause evaporation. The greater the RH in the air the wider the plants stomata will open. The reason being, the more water vapor (humidity) in the air the more pressure the air exerts on the plant, so the plant must "push back" and in essence try harder to transpire. Which it does by opening it's stomata wider, in turn increasing it's ability to absorb CO2. So, if humidity is raised and a plant responds by widening the opening to it's stomata and temps are raised to allow for a greater level off water vapor (AKA evaporated water AKA transpiration) to be held by the air......A plant will still, despite the increased pressure being placed upon it (high RH), be able to properly transpire thus absorbing a sufficient amount of nutrients as it pulls up through it's roots water to replace what it has lost...and absorb increased amounts of CO2 from the air by it's widened stomata openings that the plant will be ready to utilize as it has an adequate supply of nutrients at it's disposal.

As long as it is balanced right and a few other key variables are properly controlled....

High temps + High RH = healthy, thriving plants

...just look at the jungle. Very high temps, very high humidity...ABUNDANT and THRIVING plant life.

Most of my research has about VPD has come from this website and these ideas are not by any stretch of the imagination my own, only my understanding of the concept as presented to me through the knowledge of others much more versed in the subject than I.

Please feel free to share any info you feel is beneficial to further one's knowledge about the subject from simple to complex as long as it is applicable it is welcome."

My RH is about 45% and the temps are about 27C. According to the charts I've looked at I should have a RH of about 70% for that temperature. To be honest, I never even considered RH until TnTlabs brought up VPD and I took the time to find out what it is. Food for thought, I'll try to come up with a low tech idea of how to raise the humidity without spending a ton of cash. I don't know if I could achieve 70%, but I'll bet a 10% increase would be benificial.
 
R

rastafari80

Yep, you have low RH for the veg stage.. not only for your temps.


That post is right about VPD btw the common approach is 90% RH for seedling, 60/70% for veg, 40/50% for flowering.
Keeping RH low during flowering allows more resins and thricomes production[ coz they are a natural response to low RH ], avoid mold and other issues.
The higher RH you can have without problem, the better... in any stage. [I used to have a lot of condense during seedling even inside my air extractor... and this is not the safest thing for your indoor room... but they surely thrive a lot better]


The more you keep the light on, the more the RH is going to decrease without a proper humidifier.
 

TnTLabs

Active member
yeah VPD is very important, when you are in the zone the plants thrive!
cool man, yeah, they will recover quickly now you have figured it out...
instead of dimming the light i would raise them if possible, light the space and not the plants... and yep a little Co2 supplementation would help... you dont need much... around 800 ppm will do...
peace
 
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